Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Also, Persistent Shapechange, just cast it again after your Black Ethergaunt form runs out of spells. No need to run out of spells.

Oh god... let's leave that cheese at the door. Again, we might as well just see who can make Pun-Pun the fastest. There is no way this will ever see use in a real D&D game (Ok, maybe in that guy's game. You know the one. ).

Just in case this was directed at my wet dream of a CO game: Fuck off, I tell you Asmodeus kills your Pun-Pun before ANY kobolds whatsoever are born ever. Ever. Ever.

But hey, keep on trying!

Oh, come on.  That's completely implausible.  Kobolds are like cockroaches - you can't kill them all off.

[PhaedrusXY]

Also, Persistent Shapechange, just cast it again after your Black Ethergaunt form runs out of spells. No need to run out of spells.

Oh god... let's leave that cheese at the door. Again, we might as well just see who can make Pun-Pun the fastest. There is no way this will ever see use in a real D&D game (Ok, maybe in that guy's game. You know the one. ).

Just in case this was directed at my wet dream of a CO game: Fuck off, I tell you Asmodeus kills your Pun-Pun before ANY kobolds whatsoever are born ever. Ever. Ever.

But hey, keep on trying!

lol, actually it wasn't, but I thought you might think it was. It was a joke not directed at anyone in specific... except that guy. You know?

[jameswilliamogle]

Oh, man...

Anyways, what about a simple Dimensional Lock?

[SorO_Lost]

Maybe we're just over thinking this?

Buy an Ethereal Reaver or four just in case (CP).
A rod of negation (to get rid of walls of force/prismatic).
A rod of absorption (why not).
An Anti-magic Torc or forty with a custom activation that is somantic based only.
Have access to White Raven Hammer.

Glue an Anti-magic Torc to the sword's blade and plane shift to the ethereal plane before battle.

Show up to battle and trigger one of the torcs, now everything around you loses it's magical effect and you're immune to nonmagical effects from the material plane, fun times. Ignore the dragons, fly over to the caster and smack him senseless. All of his contingencies must trigger before he enters an anti-magic field and you ignore pretty much all of them that are not meant for his buffs or flee tactics.

If it's a buff, you'll render it worthless when you get close.
If it's a planes shift, he ran, you won.
If it's a teleport but not leave battle, chase him, use a belt of battle to help ensure to get to use white raven hammer on him. You can buy more torcs than he has 7th, 8th, & 9th level spell slots since fleeing to his plane would count as running away.

A winning tactic most of the time. Fallible by the wizard spending his standard action shifting into the ethereal plane (in which case you removed one of his standard actions at the cost of using a sword in combat, it's so worth it), or setting up multiple contingencies strictly meant to DDoor him away from melee. Which may not work anyway depending on it's wording since ethereal creatures may very well be trying to attack you all the time and your contingency does not fire off randomly while you take your morning stroll.

[Negative Zero]

What if he Greater Teleports ten thousand miles away? Anyway, if he plane shifts, you still didn't beat him.

This is about how to kill an optimized, paranoid wizard under conditions at least somewhat likely to actually be seen in a real game. Fleeing is a perfectly acceptable "win" for the wizard. This isn't an "arena match" with a bunch of arbitrary restrictions in place to nerf the caster (or anyone else).

[SorO_Lost]

He ran away from you, you got rewards (XP).
It's a win in my book.

[jameswilliamogle]

At best, for the purposes of this thread, its a draw.  Gotta kill the MoFo.

[ErhnamDJ]

At best, for the purposes of this thread, its a draw.  Gotta kill the MoFo and make sure he can't come back.

Fixed.

[woodenbandman]

The wizard does not run away. He has contingent Celerity (when a magical controlled by someone other than one of my party members comes within 20 feet of me), and Disjoins the fighter's items.

[Negative Zero]

Triggers for contingent spells are usually events that happen to the bearer of the spell, and can include death, contracting disease, exposure to a breath weapon or to energy damage, falling, exposure to poison, exposure to a dangerous environment (trapped by fire, plunged underwater, and so forth), succumbing to sleep or fear effects, gaining negative levels, or being rendered helpless, deafened, or blinded.

It may just be me, but this paragraph precludes such triggers as 'When an antimagic field approaches me' or 'When a living creature wth hostile intent comes within 40 feet of me.' I never liked the 'If ____ is about to happen,' either. The contingency isn't Boccob; it only knows what is occuring to and in your body, in the present. It can't see the future and it can't see your surroundings.

[ReaderOfPosts]

It may just be me, but this paragraph precludes such triggers as 'When an antimagic field approaches me' or 'When a living creature wth hostile intent comes within 40 feet of me.' I never liked the 'If ____ is about to happen,' either. The contingency isn't Boccob; it only knows what is occuring to and in your body, in the present. It can't see the future and it can't see your surroundings.

Unfortunately, despite their suggested version, contingency is worded that broadly, so that you can use it as a divination spell if you so desire.

[Negative Zero]

Well, it appears you're right. I'll leave my post up, but inspection of the Contingency spell shows you are indeed correct and that Contingency itself is all-knowing.

[jameswilliamogle]

Well, it appears you're right. I'll leave my post up, but inspection of the Contingency spell shows you are indeed correct and that Contingency itself is all-knowing.

Which is bogus, too, I agree.

Similarly to Contact Other Plane - I prefer to interpret it as "anything that a DM would know could be answered", but we're using the thought-experiment version which is almost omnipotent.

[ReaderOfPosts]

Since contingent spells are just items like any other character, I wonder if it's possible to take out a wizard with say a factotum using say a powerstone of metafaculty, contingent spells and maybe a level in warblade to do all the damage.

[SorO_Lost]

At best, for the purposes of this thread, its a draw.  Gotta kill the MoFo and make sure he can't come back.

Fixed.

The title is beating the caster, not killing him.

*shrugs*

That quote about Contingency oddly don't say anything about taking damage. Just because a creature nonnative to the environment shows up does not mean the environment is dangerous, just the creature that walked into it. Does the original text from the spell it's self still work or is that meant to replace it?

[ErhnamDJ]

My point was that killing the wizard doesn't do much to stop him. It's barely an inconvenience. He can have clones and he can have simulacrums with scrolls of True Rez ready to bring him right back. There are other ways to make death much less of a concern too, but... the wizard has so many potential options, we can't really go into all of them.

We can be quite certain that dropping him to -10 won't be 'beating' him at anything other than a 'who has the most hit points' competition.

[ReaderOfPosts]

Yeah, but unless they can stash a clone in an undivinable or unreachable place, which I think we've established we can't, clones can be dealt with easily, and as long as you stab them with a Thinaun weapon, the wizard is dead.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

How are we stabbing him and not an astral projection, now?

And how are we dealing with contingency +UMD revivify?

[jameswilliamogle]

My point was that killing the wizard doesn't do much to stop him. It's barely an inconvenience. He can have clones and he can have simulacrums with scrolls of True Rez ready to bring him right back. There are other ways to make death much less of a concern too, but... the wizard has so many potential options, we can't really go into all of them.

We can be quite certain that dropping him to -10 won't be 'beating' him at anything other than a 'who has the most hit points' competition.

Its a valid point, but simulacra + clones + scrolls of True Rez + Genesis + scrolls from just needing to know spells + costs to transcribe + wishes + permancied walls of force and such all cost a TON of resources, both XP and GP.  This is why I keep harping on putting up a build - I don't think that all this stuff can actually happen without infinite cash shenanigans (which we talked about a while ago, and all agreed not to use).

[altpersona]

are all infinite cash methods shenanigans or just some of them?

while the ladder/pole and salt tricks are purely tricks.. there should be several ways for higher lvl wiz's to never want for money...