Author Topic: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster (Read 84864 times)

jameswilliamogle · « **Reply #240 on:** May 19, 2009, 07:10:50 PM »

Quote from: ReaderOfPosts on May 19, 2009, 06:01:01 PM

Thats also one of the major weaknesses of the Wizard, as they have to have Mindblank down while casting it (so does the Binder if he uses it).

The_Mad_Linguist · « **Reply #241 on:** May 19, 2009, 07:13:26 PM »

Quote from: jameswilliamogle on May 19, 2009, 07:10:50 PM

Quote from: ReaderOfPosts on May 19, 2009, 06:01:01 PM
Thats also one of the major weaknesses of the Wizard, as they have to have Mindblank down while casting it (so does the Binder if he uses it).

Or he can have a cohort or construct use it.

Also, if planar touchstones end up being the only thing that can harm the wizard, it would behoove him to lock down the planar location required to charge them as well.

jameswilliamogle · « **Reply #242 on:** May 19, 2009, 07:22:22 PM »

Hrm... So, Leadership is now getting use

? (j/k)

How is the cohort / construct using it?

PhaedrusXY · « **Reply #243 on:** May 19, 2009, 07:40:19 PM »

Quote from: jameswilliamogle on May 19, 2009, 07:22:22 PM

Hrm... So, Leadership is now getting use ? (j/k)

How is the cohort / construct using it?

Well... the insane version of the wizard I posted was making Similacrum's of epic monsters, which have epic spellcasting... Say hello to my little friend... the advanced Elder Titan. He cost me a boatload of XP and money, but boy was he worth it!

ErhnamDJ · « **Reply #244 on:** May 19, 2009, 07:51:08 PM »

Epic Spellcasting is easy to get. Gate + item with Fusion!

I mentioned that a long time ago. Never really delved into how uberborked it was, since going there kinda crushes the whole idea of... whatever

The_Mad_Linguist · « **Reply #245 on:** May 19, 2009, 08:04:33 PM »

A familiar might be a better choice for contact other plane...

Anyway, it seems like it would be possible to use without dropping mindblank.

SorO_Lost · « **Reply #246 on:** May 19, 2009, 08:40:24 PM »

I think this thread will be an endless debate until everyone can agree on what a typical wizard has, which may be an endless debate as well.

Isn't there a thread on the 339 that tried to define the generic wizard?

juton · « **Reply #247 on:** May 20, 2009, 01:03:53 AM »

@SorO_Lost
PhaedrusXY and I both gave a stab at defining a more generic Wizard. Some didn't think they packed enough umpfh, I think both could have seen campaign play.

jameswilliamogle · « **Reply #248 on:** May 20, 2009, 12:33:05 PM »

Quote from: juton on May 20, 2009, 01:03:53 AM

@SorO_Lost
PhaedrusXY and I both gave a stab at defining a more generic Wizard. Some didn't think they packed enough umpfh, I think both could have seen campaign play.

And, funny enough, those that thought that have yet to put up a build

.

ErhnamDJ · « **Reply #249 on:** May 20, 2009, 07:09:00 PM »

Quote from: jameswilliamogle on May 20, 2009, 12:33:05 PM

Quote from: juton on May 20, 2009, 01:03:53 AM
@SorO_Lost
PhaedrusXY and I both gave a stab at defining a more generic Wizard. Some didn't think they packed enough umpfh, I think both could have seen campaign play.
And, funny enough, those that thought that have yet to put up a build .

If only our Int were 40+

Making the invincible wizard, with all his tricks and doo-dads, is hard. And pointless.

SorO_Lost · « **Reply #250 on:** May 20, 2009, 07:12:19 PM »

If making the wizard example is pointless then what does that make this thread?

juton · « **Reply #251 on:** May 20, 2009, 11:24:40 PM »

Quote from: ErhnamDJ on May 20, 2009, 07:09:00 PM

Quote from: jameswilliamogle on May 20, 2009, 12:33:05 PM
Quote from: juton on May 20, 2009, 01:03:53 AM
@SorO_Lost
PhaedrusXY and I both gave a stab at defining a more generic Wizard. Some didn't think they packed enough umpfh, I think both could have seen campaign play.
And, funny enough, those that thought that have yet to put up a build .

I only our Int were 40+

Making the invincible wizard, with all his tricks and doo-dads, is hard. And pointless.

I'd be tempted to say that creating a Wizard that's invincible to EVERYTHING 20 levels and under is impossible. There will always be a hole that a Planar Sheppard, Cheater of Mystra or another Wizard could be able to exploit.

We already know Wizard's are awesome. Can we make Fighters better though? Has anyone actually played a Spiked Chain fighter with mage killer and standstill, was it any good?

What things are essential for a Fighter to have or do to be useful past level 6? One of those things a fighter should be able to do is kill a caster, maybe not on an even footing but at all.

The_Mad_Linguist · « **Reply #252 on:** May 20, 2009, 11:52:37 PM »

Quote from: juton on May 20, 2009, 11:24:40 PM

What things are essential for a Fighter to have or do to be useful past level 6? One of those things a fighter should be able to do is kill a caster, maybe not on an even footing but at all.

He might be able to pull off a CDG against a bound, helpless, and unconscious wizard... if it doesn't trigger any contingencies and the familiar is likewise incapacitated.

juton · « **Reply #253 on:** May 21, 2009, 12:50:20 AM »

Quote from: The_Mad_Linguist on May 20, 2009, 11:52:37 PM

Quote from: juton on May 20, 2009, 11:24:40 PM
What things are essential for a Fighter to have or do to be useful past level 6? One of those things a fighter should be able to do is kill a caster, maybe not on an even footing but at all.
He might be able to pull off a CDG against a bound, helpless, and unconscious wizard... if it doesn't trigger any contingencies and the familiar is likewise incapacitated.

Before level 15 mundanes still have a chance to win initiate, depending on the build and whether moment of prescience can give an initiative bonus they stand a chance up to 17th level. Any chance we could optimize their initiative and what they do once they've won it?

jameswilliamogle · « **Reply #254 on:** May 21, 2009, 12:55:47 AM »

Quote from: The_Mad_Linguist on May 20, 2009, 11:52:37 PM

Quote from: juton on May 20, 2009, 11:24:40 PM
What things are essential for a Fighter to have or do to be useful past level 6? One of those things a fighter should be able to do is kill a caster, maybe not on an even footing but at all.
He might be able to pull off a CDG against a bound, helpless, and unconscious wizard... if it doesn't trigger any contingencies and the familiar is likewise incapacitated.

Hey, that sounds interesting... Put up a build.

ErhnamDJ · « **Reply #255 on:** May 21, 2009, 01:37:10 AM »

Quote from: juton on May 21, 2009, 12:50:20 AM

Before level 15 mundanes still have a chance to win initiate, depending on the build and whether moment of prescience can give an initiative bonus they stand a chance up to 17th level. Any chance we could optimize their initiative and what they do once they've won it?

What use is Initiative against a Dire Tortoise? Or a wizard with Contact Other Plane a lot of levels ago. He's had Contingency for a while, too. As well as Celerity. Not to mention Craft Contingent, his familiar, or Simulacrums.

A thought, though: How big can we get an Antimagic Field? It's probably going to be easier to build a guy who can defend himself against all of the wizard's offensive techniques than trying to go after him directly.

PhaedrusXY · « **Reply #256 on:** May 21, 2009, 01:44:59 AM »

Quote from: ErhnamDJ on May 21, 2009, 01:37:10 AM

A thought, though: How big can we get an Antimagic Field? It's probably going to be easier to build a guy who can defend himself against all of the wizard's offensive techniques than trying to go after him directly.

What build can withstand the onslaught of a pair of Gated Gold Wyrm Dragons, while standing in an AMF? Maybe an Initiate of Mystra, or the Twice Betrayer (or a wizard who has used Extraordinary Spell Aim to exclude himself). That would be about it.

Negative Zero · « **Reply #257 on:** May 21, 2009, 01:53:13 AM »

A Colossus (Epic SRD) has a racial 100-foot antimagic field, and is immune to all spells (SR or not) except for a very short list. If you could figure out how to get one of those, that'd probably help a lot.

The_Mad_Linguist · « **Reply #258 on:** May 21, 2009, 03:38:07 AM »

Quote from: Negative Zero on May 21, 2009, 01:53:13 AM

A Colossus (Epic SRD) has a racial 100-foot antimagic field, and is immune to all spells (SR or not) except for a very short list. If you could figure out how to get one of those, that'd probably help a lot.

Yet, sadly, they have no real protection against shrink item-ed boulders. DR 15 takes a bit of an edge off 20d6, but not much. With only a 50 foot land speed, they're large, expensive, sitting ducks.

SorO_Lost · « **Reply #259 on:** May 21, 2009, 04:28:58 AM »

Quote from: PhaedrusXY on May 21, 2009, 01:44:59 AM

Quote from: ErhnamDJ on May 21, 2009, 01:37:10 AM
A thought, though: How big can we get an Antimagic Field? It's probably going to be easier to build a guy who can defend himself against all of the wizard's offensive techniques than trying to go after him directly.
What build can withstand the onslaught of a pair of Gated Gold Wyrm Dragons, while standing in an AMF? Maybe an Initiate of Mystra, or the Twice Betrayer (or a wizard who has used Extraordinary Spell Aim to exclude himself). That would be about it.

The caster uses gate, you run away. Eventually the wizard loses 9th level spells and you win.
Or B, use diplomacy and convince Pelor to help you. Skill/spell, same difference.
Or C, the wizard has to face his foe because this is beating he caster, not who can summon more minions than the other guy.

What Ex based flight abilities are there available that are cheap enough to use?
Even assuming you were a ToBer carrying an antimagic torc, you still have to get to the wizard.

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Author Topic: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster (Read 84864 times)