Anti-caster build ideas 2: Building the caster

[mans0011]

@James:

I have totally come over to your side of the argument. I see what you mean about Foresight and Mindblank now. Foresight is like scry on crack and steroids. You are essentially scrying on yourself. But guess what?! That shit fails. Good call. Mindblank is way more important. And with mindblank up, you shouldn't really be getting caught flat-footed anyway. How is a mundane character going to find you when you're mindblanked and only have to cast it once every two days?

[ErhnamDJ]

  Well, they can scry on your items or your familiar (so get Mind Blank for the little fellow too). They would have to know what items you possessed, though. I don't see how they could manage it.

  Just to be safe, perhaps the wizard should craft all his own items?

[ReaderOfPosts]

If we're not doing anything better with Shapechange, Shapechange ->Formian Queen + Mindsight should deal with any sneakytypes (as darkstalker doesn't protect against Mindsight).

My understanding of darkstalker is that it does stop mindsight. Seeing as how mindsight functions like blindsense and this hides from blindsense.

I've got more to say about all this, but I'm at work so I cannot really do it now.

[ErhnamDJ]

So, for the familiar, get a Pseudodragon and switch its Alertness feat for Mindsight?

Edit: Also, we need to get a construct or simulacrum with Iron Heart Surge we can carry around.

Actually, shouldn't the wizard himself have Iron Heart Surge? Two unexpensive items gets it for him.

[PhaedrusXY]

So, for the familiar, get a Pseudodragon and switch its Alertness feat for Mindsight?

Great idea! Holy crap!

  Well, they can scry on your items or your familiar (so get Mind Blank for the little fellow too). They would have to know what items you possessed, though. I don't see how they could manage it.

  Just to be safe, perhaps the wizard should craft all his own items?

You could share Mindblank with your familiar, and I don't think you can Scry on items. It targets a creature. Also, even if you could, your items get saving throws, and can use yours or theirs, whichever is better. And I thought they were also generally under the protection of any spells you cast on yourself, but I might be wrong about that last part.

Besides, with Detect Scrying + Greater Anticipate Teleport up and running, you might want to let them try to Scry and Die on you. 

[ErhnamDJ]

I was thinking along the lines of them using a Discern Location spell, but the "To find an object, you must have touched it at least once" part makes that a non-issue.

[jameswilliamogle]

Blindsight et al still doesn't work against Ethereal / Astral / Shadow Plane critters; definitely need a way to see them.  (Preferably constantly.)

[PhaedrusXY]

Blindsight et al still doesn't work against Ethereal / Astral / Shadow Plane critters; definitely need a way to see them.  (Preferably constantly.)

True Seeing works for Ethereal. Do we really need the others? Can you even move from either of them to the Material accurately, other than by using things like Greater Plane Shift, which would let you do that from any plane?

[ReaderOfPosts]

The 7th level nomad power "Dream Travel" can get you anywhere with no error (and is not delayed by anticipate teleport). I'm not sure this is blockable, and a contingent anti-magic field that goes off when they appear next to you could be problematic. Do we have our pointy Adamantine shrunk item wizards hat yet?

[PhaedrusXY]

Do we have our pointy Adamantine shrunk item wizards hat yet?

But of course!

[Anklebite]

Do we have our pointy Adamantine shrunk item wizards hat yet?

But of course!

....and get one shotted by my patended shrunken water-arrow with infused delayed antimagic field 

[PhaedrusXY]

Do we have our pointy Adamantine shrunk item wizards hat yet?

But of course!

....and get one shotted by my patended shrunken water-arrow with infused delayed antimagic field 

Meh. The amphibious template is LA +0.

[ErhnamDJ]

Dream Travel can't ever actually do anything to you. It reads: "Dream travel can also be used to travel to other planes that contain creatures that dream"

Well, elves don't dream. If you're on your Genesis plane (presumably sending out Simulacrums, Gated dragons, Astral Projections, Body Outside Body copies, etc to do your bidding on other planes) and nothing there dreams....

I don't see any reason why the wizard would ever leave his stronghold on his Genesis plane. This gives a myriad of benefits: First, he chooses the terrain which any prospective battle might take place in (his stronghold; I'd like to see someone get through there) and, secondly, they have to know he even has a stronghold on another plane. Isn't it possible to make it impossible (short of an epic spell or deific means) for someone to get to your Genesis plane?

[jameswilliamogle]

I don't see any reason why the wizard would ever leave his stronghold on his Genesis plane. This gives a myriad of benefits: First, he chooses the terrain which any prospective battle might take place in (his stronghold; I'd like to see someone get through there) and, secondly, they have to know he even has a stronghold on another plane. Isn't it possible to make it impossible (short of an epic spell or deific means) for someone to get to your Genesis plane?

I totally agree.  In which case, we've beaten him already.  His options, although numerous, are still pretty limited if he stays at home (pre-epic, that is).

[juton]

I don't see any reason why the wizard would ever leave his stronghold on his Genesis plane. This gives a myriad of benefits: First, he chooses the terrain which any prospective battle might take place in (his stronghold; I'd like to see someone get through there) and, secondly, they have to know he even has a stronghold on another plane. Isn't it possible to make it impossible (short of an epic spell or deific means) for someone to get to your Genesis plane?

I've thought about this too. Lets have the Wizard out to visit friends down at the pub or wherever, Wizards have to leave their demiplane every once and a while, when they do that's where the fight happens. Heck, lets even let the mundane choose the terrain, such as woods, town, dungeon, arena etc.

Otherwise it becomes a silly version of the iron seige except in miniature.

[jameswilliamogle]

I've thought about this too. Lets have the Wizard out to visit friends down at the pub or wherever, Wizards have to leave their demiplane every once and a while, when they do that's where the fight happens. Heck, lets even let the mundane choose the terrain, such as woods, town, dungeon, arena etc.

Otherwise it becomes a silly version of the iron seige except in miniature.

Hello, Wild Magic region .

[ErhnamDJ]

I thought the whole idea was to show that the wizard is impervious? Not to give the opposition some sort of comic book style chance to stop us.

[jameswilliamogle]

I thought the whole idea was to show that the wizard is impervious? Not to give the opposition some sort of comic book style chance to stop us.

That's the exact kind of clarity that I think this thread needs. 

Initially, this was just a more-or-less typical "need anti-caster build" thing, but unlike many others that have died off, there seems to be enough interest to keep this thread alive. 

So, maybe to clarify - a typical totally paranoid wizard is definitely impervious (as per Genesis, etc, and stacking the deck as they see fit).  But I also think that their impact on anything significant is ridiculously reduced, so they aren't really an issue.

So, what does that leave?  A wizard could probably be sniped under some circumstances when they leave, so I've taken the pro-mundane side in trying to provide problems that the wizard would need to deal with (like before, on the Mindsight issue - wiz needs 24 h Truesight).

EDIT: but we STILL don't really have parameters.  I like to think of the problem as "I have a wizard in the party that I want to kill, in a real game" vs. "I am a wizard whom someone wants to kill, in my own game, but I'm not sure what I need to do to prevent it (while still being the party wiz)."

[PhaedrusXY]

So, maybe to clarify - a typical totally paranoid wizard is definitely impervious (as per Genesis, etc, and stacking the deck as they see fit).  But I also think that their impact on anything significant is ridiculously reduced, so they aren't really an issue.

Not at all. They can travel around as an Astral Projection, and do anything they could normally do, with no personal risk at all. If you allow Genesis and cheese of that level, the wizard truly is impervious. And this is something that is possible for him to do, but I doubt it's something you'd see in most games.

Coupled with the fact that they can manipulate the planar traits of their demiplane, and take them with them via the Planar Bubble spell and some creature they've "raised" there (like a pseudodragon hatched there, which is now their familiar), and they are also significantly ramped up in power.

[jameswilliamogle]

Not at all. They can travel around as an Astral Projection, and do anything they could normally do, with no personal risk at all. If you allow Genesis and cheese of that level, the wizard truly is impervious. And this is something that is possible for him to do, but I doubt it's something you'd see in most games.

Githyanki severs chord "ganked!"

But, more seriously: we STILL don't really have parameters. 

I like to think of the problem as "I have a wizard in the party that I want to kill, in a real game" vs. "I am a wizard whom someone wants to kill, in my own game, but I'm not sure what I need to do to prevent it (while still being the party wiz)."