remember the iron siege?

[bogsnes]

ToB, page 128, in the SSN capstone ability...

[Tshern]

So it seems, but there is absolutely no mechanic involved in that, so the point is pretty moot.

Just as a thought, I have been working on a build that could defeat Dispater, but I won't hand it out before I finally stop DMing the game. Very sketchy still, but I've got some idea.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

I had a build that by RAW would result in Dispater's eventual demise provided he, at any point, went to sleep.

If the life expectancy of a comatose Lord of Hell is greater than a couple weeks, max, something is seriously screwed up.  There's supposed to be extensive backstabbing going on thar.

[Anklebite]

actually, Tshern, I am only tossing out ideas because I simply cannot be arsed to optimize a 70 HD epic character.... that would take days.  I left many of my ideas very open ended in some ways, because I know that there is probably a way to it, and was hoping this might inspire someone to make an iron siege entry.... I do love reading those 

[Tshern]

What is the exact effect you would use on him? And, as an outsider, we doesn't sleep.

Perhaps I'll write a finished character at some point.

[CannibalSmith]

What's with the "can't find Dispater" problem? I mean, won't he come to you himself once you refit his tower into a church devoted to Pelor?

[Bozwevial]

What's with the "can't find Dispater" problem? I mean, won't he come to you himself once you refit his tower into a church devoted to Pelor?

Uh, how do you plan to do that with the myriad defenses he has set up in there, not to mention his servants? And why risk your own neck when an illusion will do just as well?

[PhaedrusXY]

What's with the "can't find Dispater" problem? I mean, won't he come to you himself once you refit his tower into a church devoted to Pelor?

Probably not. There have been suggestions to do something like this, but I don't think anyone has actually pursued any of them. One guy did go in and start just blowing shit up in Dis randomly, but his build wasn't really optimized (character name was Trogdor...), and so he died pretty quickly. Totally screwing up Dis to see if Dispater comes out would be an interesting approach, though.

Another suggestion I remember was somehow convincing Dispater that he was actually more unsafe staying in the Iron Tower than coming out of it, but I don't know how in the hell you'd do that...

[Tshern]

What's with the "can't find Dispater" problem? I mean, won't he come to you himself once you refit his tower into a church devoted to Pelor?

Ever read his entry? His Tower is of infinite size, has a good number of defenses and is immune to, well, everything. Also, Dispater doesn't give a fuck about his Tower, his servants or even his only superior.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

The main issue is that there aren't any clear guidelines on what is and is not allowable for challengers, and some of the abilities given to Dispater (IE: infinite tower) can't really be matched without stupidity.

Can I have an infinite ocean of holy water in my divine domain?  Full of celestial merpeople paladins?  Who are all constantly on fire and immune to damage from water pressure?  And the holy water is covered in holy flames, which are also on fire?  And the plane has three hundred times normal gravity and the bottom (below the infinite ocean) is made of riverine?

Now that's not even close to equivalent to "I have a city with an infinite number of fiends who all obey me (if grudgingly), and an infinite tower within that infinite city".

The "must start out in Dis" is a pretty stupid restrictive requirement too.

[Tshern]

You do not start in Dis, you start at the gate in front of it. Nothing has ever been said about not being allowed to leave the plane the moment the challenge begins. I fail to see the restriction.

Use the normal rules for deific realms given in the Gates of Hell, chapter 9.

The Iron Siege is not supposed to be fair. You are supposed to fight a guy whose CR is officially just over 60, but you are granted a level 70 deity, that says something. Anyone could make a level 20 character and one shot Dispater, but his extended abilities are what actually turn the Iron Siege into a real challenge. I do not recommend entering the challenge unless you understand what you are up against.

As to Dispater's resources: You have no idea what I, Witch and Selah have used so far. We might or might not have used common devils, archdevils, Dukes or some weird psionic combination, but before making any plans the player should actually see how much real information about my methods he has.

So far I am relatively surprised to see how many very lucrative tactics haven't seen daylight in the challenge.

[Bozwevial]

The Iron Siege is not supposed to be fair.

This is pretty much the reason it's a challenge. If it were as easy to beat as it seems, someone would have done it by now.

[CannibalSmith]

*looks at Dispater's stats* You should make a concise list of all the factors that can bother an epic character. His stat block is simply tl;dr. Nobody cares of he has +78 to appraise or Obscuring Mist prepared. And I couldn't find where does it say that his tower is infinite. Is it an extradimensional space or is the tower infinite on the outside too? Is there anything else of importance that's infinite?

In any case, where do I post my challenger?

How many attempts can I make? In other words, can I spam you with characters, and you tell me, in short, how far they get and how they die?

[Tshern]

So it as I figured.

*looks at Dispater's stats* You should make a concise list of all the factors that can bother an epic character. His stat block is simply tl;dr. Nobody cares of he has +78 to appraise or Obscuring Mist prepared.

Why do you believe I won't changed his prepared spells? That is one of the most basic rules of the challenge and they have been reiterated dozens of times.

And I couldn't find where does it say that his tower is infinite. Is it an extradimensional space or is the tower infinite on the outside too? Is there anything else of importance that's infinite?

The size of the Iron Tower has been defined by the writer of the book on their old forum (they've changed their forum, I believe, twice after that). It is not an extradimensional space, but for the sake of the challenge the Tower has been definied to be 9x9x999 miles.

In any case, where do I post my challenger?

Either to the thread on 339 or, if the OP allows, here.

[CannibalSmith]

How many attempts can I make? In other words, can I spam you with characters, and you tell me, in short, how far they get and how they die?

Edit: Also, what is the general shape of the tower? Cylinder, cone, etc.

[Anklebite]

posting challengers here is fine with me, as part of the reason I started this thread was to see other people's ideas 

just remember to use spoilers..... 70 HD charsheets take up alot of space.

[SixthDeclension]

Also, you could have AC resurrect the old Iron Siege child board in the Pbps....

[Tshern]

How many attempts can I make? In other words, can I spam you with characters, and you tell me, in short, how far they get and how they die?

Edit: Also, what is the general shape of the tower? Cylinder, cone, etc.

For the purposes of the challenge it is just a straight block of metal with the aforementioned dimensions.

And when your character loses, it is time for another challenger if there are any.

[CannibalSmith]

Challenger 0001
Cleric 17
Animal Domain
DMM Persist Shapechange
Algorithm:
1. Fly towards the top of the tower until reached.
2. Shape into colossal animated object: adamantine ripsaw.
3. Cut slices off the top of the tower until destroyed.

[Tshern]

You find yourself trappec in a cubicle. There is no light, you have been reverted back to your original form and the walls around your person are solid. To make matters worse, the room is also filled with acid.