Geomancer - spell versatility

[Surreal]

I've been musing over the Geomancer lately after my entry in Iron Chef #4. Spell versatility really seems like something that can be taken advantage of, but I haven't seen much mention of it. Ambiguity comes in the interpretation of what a spellcasting "parameter" is. In my contest entry (in the spoiler below), I entered using a base of Nentyar Hunter and Suel Arcanamach. These are the "parameters" that I finagled with:

- caster level - used the higher CL of Suel to cast my NH spells
- "class" - considered my NH spells as Suel in order to get extended spell strength
- arcane/divine - cast my arcane Suel spells in armor
- save DC - I didn't actually have any spells in my build that required saves, but if I did I would use whichever stat was better

So I'm wondering if there are any other kinds of "parameters" that we can abuse? If we start considering class as a parameter, I think this opens up some options (although I will admit that this starts to enter the fuzzy realm of RAW/RAI/TO).

The best I can think of right now is Battle Blessing (Complete Champion) which decreases the casting time of paladin spells from std-->swift, and full-->std. With Geomancer, you can consider all your spells as paladin spells and, well, you get the idea. With the right spell selection you're basically slinging double spells a turn. A dip into Silver Pyromancer (Eb: Five Nations) will add the paladin spells to your arcane list.

Another random thing of note: Geomancer drifts are technically class abilities, so you keep them when you polymorph. Yeah, good times. I didn't even mention that in my contest entry because of my hatred for all things polymorph.

[spoiler]Name: Peasmiil

Illumian Totemist 6/Nentyar Hunter 3/Suel Arcanamach 3/Geomancer 8

***No gear, no buffs, no soulmelds ||| with minimal gear/buffs/soulmelds***
Medium Humanoid
Hit Dice: 6d8 + 3d6 + 3d8 + 8d6 + Con = 81 + 60 -20 (quick) = 121 hp ||| 201 hp
Initiative: +1 ||| +4
Speed: 55' ||| 85'
Armor Class:  11, Touch: 11, Flat-footed: 10 ||| AC = 31 = 10 + 10 (armor) + 4 (Dex) + +5 (barkskin) +2 (RM)
Base Attack/Grapple/Trip: 15/19/19 ||| 15/ 33 / 35
Attack: +15  ||| +29
Full Attack: 2 claws, 1 bite, 1 stinger ||| plus whatever else you get with soulmelds
Space/Reach: 5'/5' ||| 10'/10'
Special Abilities/Qualities: always literate, wild empathy, woodland stride, swift tracker, swiftness of the stag, tenacious spells, dispelling strike, extended spellstrength, ignore ASF 5%, drift 4, spell versatility 7, ley lines +2
Saves: base 11/9/9 ||| 24/19/19
Abilities: Str 16 (21 w/levels), Dex 12, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 10 ||| Str 36, Dex 18, Con 24, Int 18, Wis 16, Cha 16
Skills: (4+1)*23 = 115 total;
Feats: see below
Flaws/Traits: Shaky, Vulnerable, Quick, Detached
Environment: forest
Alignment: non-evil
Languages Spoken:
Level Adjustment: +0

Feats:
F: track (prereq)
F: ? open
otyugh hole: iron will (prereq)
1 alertness (prereq)
3 combat casting (prereq)
6 multiattack
9 open
12 open lesser chakra - retrain to practiced spellcaster when we can cast the spell
15 battle jump
18 ?open greater chakra


Skill Tricks:
any relevant movement ones (climb, jump, charge, etc)


Possessions:
Mithril Breastplate +5
Cloak of Resistance +6
Belt of Magnificence +6
a couple Metamagic Rods of Extend
Necklace of Natural Weapons +1 Valorous for ? weapons
Manual of Gainful Exercise +5


Soulmelds:
Sphinx Claws (hands) - for pounce
Girallon Arms (totem) - 4 claws
whatever


Buffs active in stat block above:
Barkskin
Righteous Might
Expeditious Retreat


Drifts
stage 1: doesn't matter
stage 2: swift as elk (+5' speed), lizard feet (+5 climb)
stage 3: 2 claws (1d3), bite (1d6),
stage 4: trip like wolf, stinger (1d4 + 1d4 acid)



Spells known (Nentyar Hunter): **use Geomancer versatility: use Suel parameters, get extended duration and high CL**
1: barkskin, cure light wounds, detect magic, detect poison, entangle, jump, light, pass without trace, magic missile, snare, speak with animals, true strike
2: Aganazzar's Scorcher, blur, cure moderate wounds, gust of wind, moonbeam, neutralize poison, remove disease, resist elements, speak with plants, tree shape
3: cure serious wounds, freedom of movement, greenfire, invisibility, keen edge, moon blade, quench, see invisibility, wind wall
4: break enchantment, commune with nature, control winds, force orb, greater magic weapon, tree stride, wall of thorns
5: find the path, flame strike, healing circle, moon path, righteous might


Spells known (Suel Arcanamach): Caster Level 17 (base 9 + 2 Illumian + 2 ley lines + 4 prac)
1 (4): expeditious retreat, free, free, free
2 (4): heroics, wraithstrike. free, free
3 (3): free, free, free
4 (2): open least chakra, polymorph
5 (2): free, free


Spells per Day: add bonus spells based on Strength (Illumian Aeshkrau sigil)
Nentyar Hunter/Suel Arcanamach
1: 3/4
2: 3/4
3: 2/3
4: 2/2
5: 1/1


Character background:
N/A


Pre-combat:
cast open lesser chakra a couple times (extend to last two or three days), bind whatever you feel like for the day
buff up with long duration spells



Combat:
move, jump, battle jump triggers charge, charge triggers pounce, slashy slashy, every attack trips at +35, can't be tripped in return, valorous doubles damage
standard silliness: heroics for power attack, pounce with wraithstrike with full power attack
assuming conservative 8 attacks, full power attack (15)...
... 1d4 + 13 (str) + 15 (PA) ~ 30 per attack, 8 attacks, valorous & battle jump... ~ 720 without considering anything else


Levels 1-6:
- straight Totemist, nothing overly fancy here

Levels: 7-10:
- grab Nentyar Hunter 2 and Suel Arcanamach 2
- still essentially playing a totemist with a few buffs


Levels 11-20:
- fill out the remainder with Geomancer 8/NH +1/SA +1
- Geomancer's spell versatility now let's us cast in heavier armor for SA spells, and use the higher CL and get extended durations for NH buffs
- alternatively drop NH 3 (which gives +10 speed) for Geomancer 9
- cold potentially drop SA 3 as well, since we're primarily aiming for long duration buffs anyways
- each level essentially brings more spells and natural weapons
- battle jump becomes a reliable way to boost damage when the buffs start spiking the jump check


Other notes:
- Nentyar Hunter fills the weapons prereq for Suel Arcanamach
- Totemist and NH fulfill most of the skill prereqs, use the cityscape web enhancement to get tumble
- buffing jump should be relatively easy: high speed, jump spell, soulmelds, etc
- Illumian: reduced MAD (makes bonus spells based off Str for both NH and SA), remain literate despite Totemist
- haste actually doesn't help that much, and the duration is short
- I absolutely hate dipping Lion-totem barbarian for pounce
- a grappling build is actually feasible here with soulmelds and geomancer (which can get constrict and improved grab), but then that involves mixing grappling rules with natural attacks, which makes the baby Pun-pun cry
- there are two empty feat slots; you can either build towards a lancer (and use heroics to get anything else) or do whatever else you feel like; I'm tempted to do shape soulmeld just for versatility
- extra craziness with polymorph since all the drifts and soulmelds are class abilities so they remain even when you polymorph

[/spoiler]

[DavidWL]

Hi Surreal, I've often wondered along similar lines ...

Inspired by this thread: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=17261483

To some extent this build depends on GM fiat.

Wizard 1/Cleric 6/Prestige Paladin 2/Geomancer 10/Dwoemerkeeper 1

Domain:
- Magic
- Rune

Feats:
1)  Academic Priest
1)  Precocious Apprentice
1)  Mounted Combat (bonus Wizard)
3) 
6)  Initiate of Mystra
9)  Sword of the Arcane Order
12) Battle's Blessing
15) Uncanny Forethought
18)

Versatile Spellcaster:
- CL = 18
- Can cast all Cleric, Paladin, and Wizard spells
- Auto quicken any spell
- cast any spell spontaneously Int bonus times per day Via uncanny forethought if slot is left open. (~11+ times per day)
- INT focused build - INT for spells per day, spell DCs
- 1 spell in the spell mantle (Miracle)
- cast in anti-magic / dead magic zones via initiate of mystra

Other Perks:
- Drifts from Geomancer (flyspeed, blindsense, scent, bonus to spot, low light vision, etc.)
- Cha to saves from Prestige Paladin

Options:
- CLeric 1 - Spontaneous Domain Casting (Magic)
- Wizard 1 - Illusion Mastery
- Wizard 1 - Trade Scribe scroll for fighter feat

Notes:
- Sword of the arcane order -> Paladin slots can cast arcane spells.  Geomancer strongly suggests that we can treat any cleric spell as a paladin spell, allowing us to cast any arcane spell.  This isn't iron-clad as Sword of the arcane order references "paladin spell slots" and it is unclear what a paladin spell slot is in this context.  Geomancer says that you ~"prepare spells as normal, but can cast them using parameters from any of your spellcasting classes", which does help enourage us to interpret paladin slots in a generous way.
- The "Sword of the Arcane Order" feat requires Paladin 4 (rather obviously because this is the level Paladin's first get spellcasting).  I assumed that Prestige Pladin 1 can qualify.  If not, we can take 4 levels of Prestige paladin, giving up another CL.
- Could swap out Wizard for 1 more level of Dwoemerkeeper.  This would lose uncanny forethought, but gives 1 more CL.  Probably more optimal, but I really wanted to emphasize the generalist nature of the build.
- Could also do a feat shuffle to end up with DMM (Persistent)

Question:
- What should I do with the 2 remaining feats?  Could do:
   - Craft Wonderous Item
   - Craft Contingent Spell
   - Leadership
   - Ancestral Relic
   - Flyby Attack
   - Mobile Spellcaster
   - ...

[DavidWL]

ignore

[Akalsaris]

Well, here's my take on it:

CG Human Conjurer 3/Geomancer 6/Holy Liberator 1/Geomancer +4/Incantatrix 5
ACFS: UA Conjurer (bonus spells), PHB II (familiar), Complete Mage (Focused specialist)
CL 19, 22 in the mountains

Books required: CD, PGtF, Races of Faerun, CC
Nice to have: UA, PHB II, CM, CAdv, CS, CA

Feats:
1st hmn: Extend Spell
1st char: Metamagic School Focus (Conjuration)
1st bonus wiz: Augment Summoning
3rd char: Southern Magician (to qualify for geomancer)
6th char: Sculpt Spell
9th char: Iron Will
12th char: Battle Blessing
15th char: Persistent Spell
16th bonus incantatrix: Twin Spell
18th char: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Notes:
1. Cheesiness: assumes that Southern Magician will qualify for geomancer.  This is arguable as the actual source of the spell doesn't change, however since the feat almost perfectly duplicates the effects of the geomancer class I think it is likely to be allowed in a lot of games, given that geomancer only advances 1 spell-casting class. 
2. Cheesiness: holy liberator gives the paladin spell list (though without lawful spells).
3. Special trick: unlike pious templar, holy liberator gives all armors and shield proficiencies, allowing you to cast in full plate with a tower shield without ACPs (the ASF is taken away by geomancer).
4. Special trick: going conjurer means that all of your full round summons are now standard actions, while your other spells are swift, so each round you have plenty of actions to do.
5. I'd love to get BAB +5 by 8th level and to move Battle Blessing to 9th with Holy Liberator 1, but I'm stumped on how to do it without changing to battle sorcerer. 
6. it would be best to stagger the later geomancer and incantatrix levels to get increased versatility at the levels you get new spells.
7. The build is playable at all levels, though it becomes effective at 7th when the versatility matches your maximum spell levels, and best at 12th I suppose. 
8. Minor Cheesiness: you can get Iron Will from a magical location if allowed, saving another feat slot.

[Caelic]

  Geomancer says that you ~"prepare spells as normal, but can cast them using parameters from any of your spellcasting classes", which does help enourage us to interpret paladin slots in a generous way.

While I think a case can be made for most of the rest of the build, I don't think this works.  You prepare spells as normal; it's only when you're casting them that you get to monkey with the parameters.

Thus, when preparing the arcane spells granted by SoTAO, you would be bound by the normal rules; your Paladin slots are Paladin slots, and your Cleric slots are Cleric slots. 

[Akalsaris]

  Geomancer says that you ~"prepare spells as normal, but can cast them using parameters from any of your spellcasting classes", which does help enourage us to interpret paladin slots in a generous way.

While I think a case can be made for most of the rest of the build, I don't think this works.  You prepare spells as normal; it's only when you're casting them that you get to monkey with the parameters.

Thus, when preparing the arcane spells granted by SoTAO, you would be bound by the normal rules; your Paladin slots are Paladin slots, and your Cleric slots are Cleric slots. 

Well, it's hard to say, since prestige paladin continues your cleric spell-casting progression.  It seems to me to be one of those gray areas you get from using a poorly thought out variant.  I definitely like the build though.

On a sidenote, halfway through economics class I realized that my previous build could get a BAB +5 by 8th and thereby gaining battle blessing by 9th level simply by going CG Human Conjurer 4/Geomancer 4/Holy Liberator 1/Geomancer +6/Incantatrix 5.  Mwahaha.

[Anklebite]

On a sidenote, halfway through economics class I realized that my previous build could get a BAB +5 by 8th and thereby gaining battle blessing by 9th level simply by going CG Human Conjurer 4/Geomancer 4/Holy Liberator 1/Geomancer +6/Incantatrix 5.  Mwahaha.

factional BAB = win.

[Dictum Mortuum]

I read the class and i think that you need to actually be able to cast the spells to apply spell versatility. Not only have them as "known"

[Operation Shoestring]

Bard5/Mindbender1/Ur priest2/geromancer2/Sublime chord2/Geomancer+8

Persisted Foresight and Sirene's Grace FTW!

(This was my michael jackson build, complete with using geomancer's deformities to emulate his inhuman appearance an pedophilic tendencies - improved grab anyone?)

[bayar]

So...who will make a Meepo char sheet now ?

[Caedrus]

I know I keep on and on about this trick, but I think it is fantastic, particularly for the Geomancer.

The Spontaneous Versatility Trick (blatantly stolen from the Dirty Tricks Handbook)

Step 1: Get a caster able to cast spells spontaneously. Note the Magical Training feat (Player's Guide to Faerun) as a source of inspiration.
Step 2: Take the Versatile Spellcaster feat (Races of the Dragon, Page 101).
Step 3: Take the Heighten Spell feat (Player's Handbook, Page 95).
Step 4: Take a look at the Wizards Website.
Step 5: Realise that, with absolute legality, if you can find a Prestige Class that limits entry level by designating a particular level of spells, you have just broken it.

Pure fun with a Geomancer, and no Southern Magician shenanigans.

C.