Author Topic: Some Gishtalt advice, Please  (Read 3985 times)

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Bell

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Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« on: February 11, 2009, 05:22:54 PM »
I'm (hoping to play) in ksbsnowowl's gestalt campaign, and I have just about finished building my character.  I still need some help with a few decisions though.  First, I have one level free on side b for something.  Rage Mage 2 progresses my Sorcerer casting, so I don't want to take Sorcerer there, because it would be a waste.  My question is what is a good one level dip class who's 1st level would actually be useful at mid levels?  I was thinking about taking a level of Warlock and taking the Entropic Warding Least Invocation.  (Deflecting incoming ray and missiles is pretty nice), but if someone has a better idea, I'm all ears.

Banned classes are ToB, asian themed classes, (monk, wu jen, shugenja, etc.), artificers, psionics and incarnum, for the most part.

My second issue is with feat selection.  My 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th level feats are all open right now.  Any advice on those would be appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance for the help.

[spoiler=build thus far]
  Side A                Side B                     Feats
Barbarian 1           Sorcerer 1   Power Attack (1st), Versatile Spellcaster (Human)
Barbarian 2           Sorcerer 2   
Barbarian 3           Sorcerer 3   Scribe Scroll (3rd) - I have to take this for setting reasons
Barbarian 4           Sorcerer 4   
Barbarian 5           Sorcerer 5   
D. Disciple 1          Sorcerer 6   Combat Casting (6th)
Rage Mage 1          Sorcerer 7   
D. Disciple 2          Sorcerer 8   
D. Disciple 3          Sorcerer 9   Open
Rage Mage 2         Some class   
D. Disciple 4          Sorcerer 10   
Abj. Champion        1               Open
Abj. Champion        2   
D. Disciple 5          Sorcerer 11   
D. Disciple 6          Sorcerer 12     Open
D. Disciple 7          Sorcerer 13   
Abj. Champion        3   
Rage Mage 3          Sorcerer 14   Open
Abj. Champion        4   
Abj. Champion        5   

By the way, if anyone can help my formatting, I won't turn down the help. ;)
[/spoiler]

Rebel7284

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Re: Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2009, 05:27:56 PM »
edit: bah, TOB is banned... :(
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Anklebite

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Re: Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2009, 05:30:13 PM »
actually, ToB classes are on his banned list.

since you have a few feats, and a level of base class open, what about grabbing cloistered cleric 1? DMM quicken is a spontaneous caster's friend.  also, metamagics are good for unused feat slots.
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AfterCrescent

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Re: Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2009, 05:33:17 PM »
DMM doesn't work with arcane spells, so is incredibly useless here...

Bell, are you in need of feats? Fighter 1 is a standard dip if you need them. I know you haven't chosen them all, but you might need some later. ;)

What about Binders? If you don't have choices for a lot of those feats, you could dip Binder, take a couple feats and have some excellent utility...
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2009, 05:33:51 PM »
DMM quicken is a spontaneous caster's friend.  also, metamagics are good for unused feat slots.
How is he going to use Divine Metamagic on his Arcane sorcerer spells? He'd have to add Southern Magician or something.

I was thinking of asking ksb if I could play a binder in that game... :D
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skydragonknight

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Re: Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2009, 05:51:26 PM »
Divine Metamagic is banned anyways.
*watches AC have a heart attack*
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AfterCrescent

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Re: Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2009, 05:52:42 PM »
Divine Metamagic is banned anyways.
*watches AC have a heart attack*
:P I'm still alive. Notice I didn't apply. ;) To each their own. :D
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Bell

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Re: Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2009, 06:03:16 PM »
I thought about Fighter 1, but I can't really think of any feats that I really need too badly. If anyone can think of any fighter bonus feats that would help the build, lay 'em on me.

I thought maybe some utility metamagics, but I plan on mostly casting self-buffs, so the only one that comes to mind right away is Extend Spell. 

Maybe something to alter my breath weapon? any thoughts there?

Thoughts on Warlock 1? Would it be worth it?

Any other 1 level dips that people like?

Rebel7284

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Re: Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2009, 06:49:10 PM »
Well for the feat slots you can always take charging based feats, you know shock trooper, leap attack.  You are lion totem, right?

Cloistered Cleric is still a good choice as it can effectively give you 3 feats (knowlege devotion, travel devotion if you don't have pounce, law devotion or animal devotion are also good, perhaps scribe scroll unless you have to take it earlier.) 

If your INT is ok, Abrupt Jaunt wizard is good. 

Warmage for Lolz?  Warmage edge does work for all spells, right?

Dragonfire Adept + entangling exhiltation(sp?).
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2009, 08:50:57 PM »
Barbarian for pounce? Nevermind.  :banghead
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ksbsnowowl

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Re: Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2009, 01:13:58 AM »
actually, ToB classes are on his banned list.
Banned is such a harsh word... I actually love ToB, it just doesn't fit into a scandinavian setting such as this.
Divine Metamagic is banned anyways.
*watches AC have a heart attack*
:P I'm still alive. Notice I didn't apply. ;) To each their own. :D
What can I say?  I've never been a fan of DMM since the day I first heard of it.  Can't really say why; it just feels wrong.  I've never had, and likely never will have a character that uses it.  But to quote a great man, "To each their own."

Bell, it may not be what you're looking for, but I've always found that a dip into Rogue or Scout meshes well with just about any gestalt.  Gain some extra skill points, gain a little more combat ability.  It's simple and elegant.

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Bell

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Re: Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2009, 03:12:01 AM »
I  decided on 2 Metabreath Feats out of Draconomicon, Clinging Breath and Heighten Breath.  I'm not sure about Heighten yet either, either.  I decided on Fighter 1 for Imp. Bull Rush to do a Leap Attack/Shock Trooper bit, and push the Breath Feats to the end, so my feats end up as:

Human: Versatile Spellcaster
1st: Power Attack
3rd: Scribe Scroll
6th: Combat Casting
9th: Leap Attack
Ftr1: Imp. Bull Rush
12th: Shock Trooper
15th: Clinging Breath (Metabreath)
18th: Heighten Breath (Metabreath)

Thoughts?  Objections?  Should I replace the metabreath(s) with something else?  Maybe a metamagic or two?

Anklebite

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Re: Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2009, 04:39:08 AM »
I think there is a feat in races of the dragon that removes the x/day limit on breath weapons.... that'd probably be more useful than a metabreath, and then you can swap out the other metabreath for entangling exhalation.  :D
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Bell

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Re: Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2009, 01:06:28 PM »
there is, but the prereq. is half dragon, which I never get to, since I'm only taking 7 levels of D. Disciple... it would be nice, but I would have to lose all 3 levels of Rage Mage to do it, which means no spell rage, plus I would have to get rid of the fighter level, which means I can't have Imp. Bull Rush until later, which means I can't get Shock Trooper And Leap Attack until 15th, plus I couldn't get both breath feats then anyway, just the one.  That's too big a trade off for me just to be able to use my breath weapon more often.  I'll do way better than that with the charging, plus casting in a rage is really handy.  Thanks for pointing me to the feat though.  I wouldn't have even thought to check for it.  What if I took Extend Spell in place of Heighten Breath, and pushed Clinging Breath back to 18? 

Oh!  Isn't there a feat somewhere that lets you cast spells through your breath weapon?  THAT would be nice to take.

anomalousman

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Re: Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2009, 08:31:37 PM »
At the risk of asking a stupid question: What are the class levels 1,2,3,4,5?  You could finish off dragon disciple if they're actually free.

Bell

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Re: Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2009, 09:17:38 PM »
My first 5 are Barbarian on one side, and Sorcerer on the other.  Those are both set in stone, since I can't get into D.Disciple without that using ksbsnowowl's gestalt rules.

ksbsnowowl

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Re: Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2009, 12:41:48 AM »
At the risk of asking a stupid question: What are the class levels 1,2,3,4,5? 
Those are Abjurant Champion 1 - 5.  Abjurant Champion falls into the realm of "dual progression" (full BAB, full arcane casting...) and as such costs both sides of his gestalt on the levels he takes it.  Standard gestalt rules wouldn't allow it at all; I allow it, but at the cost of both "sides" of the level.
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anomalousman

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Re: Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2009, 05:22:23 AM »
Those are Abjurant Champion 1 - 5.  Abjurant Champion falls into the realm of "dual progression" (full BAB, full arcane casting...) and as such costs both sides of his gestalt on the levels he takes it.  Standard gestalt rules wouldn't allow it at all; I allow it, but at the cost of both "sides" of the level.

Oh!  Well in that case, I don't think Abjurant Champion is worth it.  You can easily get full casting and full BAB out of two sides of gestalt anyway.  The extra features aren't nothing, but I'm sure you can do better.  The Abjurant Champion 5 class feature is certainly a waste.

anomalousman

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Re: Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2009, 05:32:35 AM »
How about:

[spoiler=alternate build]
  Side A                Side B                     Feats
Barbarian 1           Sorcerer 1   Power Attack (1st), Versatile Spellcaster (Human)
Barbarian 2           Sorcerer 2   
Barbarian 3           Sorcerer 3   Scribe Scroll (3rd) - I have to take this for setting reasons
Barbarian 4           Sorcerer 4   
Barbarian 5           Sorcerer 5   
D. Disciple 1          Sorcerer 6   Combat Casting (6th)
Rage Mage 1          Sorcerer 7   
D. Disciple 2          Sorcerer 8   
D. Disciple 3          Sorcerer 9   Open
Rage Mage 2          Fighter 1
D. Disciple 4          Sorcerer 10   
Rage Mage 3          Sorcerer 11
D. Disciple 5          Sorcerer 12   
D. Disciple 6          Sorcerer 13   
D. Disciple 7          Sorcerer 14     Open
D. Disciple 8          Sorcerer 15   
D. Disciple 9          Sorcerer 16   
D. Disciple 10          Sorcerer 17    Open
Cloistered Cleric 1     Rage Mage 4   
Rage Mage 5          Sorcerer 18   
[/spoiler]

It's full sorc casting, full BAB, full dragon disciple (for a huge bag of goodies including strength, wings, charisma and senses), one extra spell rage per day, and a bunch of feats from the fighter and cleric levels.

Soda

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Re: Some Gishtalt advice, Please
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2009, 01:02:12 PM »
I don't know what Craft Talisman does, but it seems cooler for this character than scribe scroll.

EDIT- Ok, it's like a potion, described as typically a piece of jewelery made from natural materials. Which is what I was imagining. Like a necklace of teeth or something. Cooler than a scroll. The advantage (weighed against the double cost) is they're on your person and only need to be touched with a standard action (no AoO) to activate.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 01:08:55 PM by Soda »