Author Topic: Iron Chef Challenge #4  (Read 31587 times)

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #140 on: February 22, 2009, 10:52:42 PM »
Lightning Warrior. I bet I can predict the build guys.
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Akalsaris

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #141 on: February 22, 2009, 11:20:15 PM »
I like the blue mage, but I don't really understand why taking another class or PrC would make you lose all abilities.  Is it a FF thing?

sonofzeal

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #142 on: February 22, 2009, 11:22:20 PM »
Lightning Warrior. I bet I can predict the build guys.
Lightning Warrior 20 / Suel Archanamach 0?  Truely a build that sacrificers on power to capture the true flavor of the Archanamach!

Ranger 2/Duskblade 3/Warblade 2/Suel Arcanamach 6/Impure Prince 5/Jade Phoenix Mage 2 was mine.
I'm curious here, what was the "hook"?  What ties it all together?

killercoffee

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #143 on: February 22, 2009, 11:49:25 PM »
I went with Duskblade 2/Crusader 3/Suel Archanamach 4/Paragnostic Apostle 1/Abjurant Champion 5/War Weaver 5 (I think, approximately)

Seems to me to be a pretty cookie-cutter semi-gish buff build, which is why I didn't feel like putting much energy into it. The guy is basically almost impossible to kill, and his abilities are focused around forcing attacks to him, hindering opponents, and buffing allies. Sort of like a party-wide bodyguard.

I think he had 17 BAB thanks to War Weaver, but that class is worth it imho for instant, extra-range buffing (quiescent weaving and eldritch reach).

pfooti

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #144 on: February 23, 2009, 12:30:44 AM »
Hmm, I owe an apology to Akalsaris in that case - I had made the catch with the level 15 snapshot, but it was only noted in the level 20 snapshot.

In any case, all three entries were really well put-together and interesting. I still lean toward Surreal as most original build, especially in his use of Geomancer, but SonOfZeal for best use of the ingredient. Without a real consensus, we'll have to call it a tie.

I wonder if we could do a multi-round Iron Chef competition. Get participants, pair them up for head-to-head competitions, and then have them work under real time constraints (24-48 hours to build a character). That's how they do Iron DM over at DnDOG.com, which I enjoy a lot. Would people be interested in that?

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #145 on: February 23, 2009, 12:35:26 AM »
I like the blue mage, but I don't really understand why taking another class or PrC would make you lose all abilities.  Is it a FF thing?

It doesn't, last I checked.

Keep in mind that it's been revised about 60 or so times, so the first comments on it essentially relate to a completely different class.


Oh, and to be closer to on topic, I really liked the Trimach build.  Two thumbs up.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 12:37:45 AM by The_Mad_Linguist »
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #146 on: February 23, 2009, 12:36:42 AM »
Sorry, double post.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 12:40:49 AM by The_Mad_Linguist »
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sonofzeal

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #147 on: February 23, 2009, 01:06:33 AM »
Hmm, I owe an apology to Akalsaris in that case - I had made the catch with the level 15 snapshot, but it was only noted in the level 20 snapshot.

In any case, all three entries were really well put-together and interesting. I still lean toward Surreal as most original build, especially in his use of Geomancer, but SonOfZeal for best use of the ingredient. Without a real consensus, we'll have to call it a tie.

I wonder if we could do a multi-round Iron Chef competition. Get participants, pair them up for head-to-head competitions, and then have them work under real time constraints (24-48 hours to build a character). That's how they do Iron DM over at DnDOG.com, which I enjoy a lot. Would people be interested in that?
I can deal with a tie. ^^  And I'll freely admit that Surreal's build was more original.  JPM is old-hat to most people and a pretty obvious choice, so if I did it again I might be a bit more creative in how to cap my build.  Still, it's obvious because it does the job very well, and I was happy to get a chance to work with it a bit more closely.

A rapid-fire build contest could work, but I think it'd be more fun in that context (for me at least) to only be responsible for the sketch of a build, the central ideas that make it tick, rather than a fully fleshed out character sheet.

Oh, and to be closer to on topic, I really liked the Trimach build.  Two thumbs up.
Thanks!  Honestly, I didn't even realize about the metamagic trick until halfway through the contest, when I looked up those rules just to make sure that all spontaneous casters are the same as Sorcs that way.  I was going to throw Permeable Form on anyway, because it's a solid spell and Extended Spellstrength gets the most mileage out of fixed-duration effects, but it's only with the double-extend that it became something I'd really like to see in play.

pfooti

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #148 on: February 23, 2009, 01:14:21 AM »
A rapid-fire build contest could work, but I think it'd be more fun in that context (for me at least) to only be responsible for the sketch of a build, the central ideas that make it tick, rather than a fully fleshed out character sheet.

Yeah, I would want it to be just the core build - class levels, central feats, and a general description of the shtick.

I'll post an interest thread, see if there's other interest.

Akalsaris

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #149 on: February 23, 2009, 01:39:39 AM »
Hmm, I owe an apology to Akalsaris in that case - I had made the catch with the level 15 snapshot, but it was only noted in the level 20 snapshot.

In any case, all three entries were really well put-together and interesting. I still lean toward Surreal as most original build, especially in his use of Geomancer, but SonOfZeal for best use of the ingredient. Without a real consensus, we'll have to call it a tie.

I wonder if we could do a multi-round Iron Chef competition. Get participants, pair them up for head-to-head competitions, and then have them work under real time constraints (24-48 hours to build a character). That's how they do Iron DM over at DnDOG.com, which I enjoy a lot. Would people be interested in that?

Thanks Pfooti, apology accepted :)  And the multi-round competition sounds interesting, but considering that each time we've done the Iron Chef event here, we've had a dozen players sign up and only 3-4 submit builds within a week.  So a head-to-head match might not work simply due to lack of actual builds.

That said, what I'm surprised about is that everyone but me went for some Incarnum!  I can see how it fits into those particular builds, but it's still not something that would ever have come to mind with that theme.  Any of you want to share what got you thinking in that direction?

Well, I originally was going to go crusader 7/suel 6/transmogrifer 7.  But the 8th level ability of transmogrifer is my favorite, so I needed to qualify for suel a level earlier, which meant taking a class with spellcraft and +1 BAB.  That limited me to Duskblade, Soulborn, and Hexblade.  Since the limited point buy meant I would have no Int score to speak of, I didn't want to take duskblade.  Hexblade is nice, but the curse has a very low DC, and I wanted the character to be lawful good based on my own concepts.  So that left Soulborn, which is a pretty weak class, but a smite attack is always pretty nice and it got transmogrifer 8 in before epic level.

I can deal with a tie. ^^  And I'll freely admit that Surreal's build was more original.  JPM is old-hat to most people and a pretty obvious choice, so if I did it again I might be a bit more creative in how to cap my build.  Still, it's obvious because it does the job very well, and I was happy to get a chance to work with it a bit more closely.

A rapid-fire build contest could work, but I think it'd be more fun in that context (for me at least) to only be responsible for the sketch of a build, the central ideas that make it tick, rather than a fully fleshed out character sheet.

Hey, but I won on points from both judges! :P  But I can deal with a tie too...personally I liked sonofzeal's build as well, mostly because the RKV is quite a fun PrC and I'd love to play one at high levels sometime.  I actually didn't know about the ruling with swift action spells, so I learned something new too :)

Surreal

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #150 on: February 23, 2009, 03:17:29 AM »
Despite not actually knowing much about ToB, I was considering making a build with it because it seems like an easy power curve to go with. Good thing I didn't :p

I was also contemplating something with Anima Mage, but ultimately I just really liked the way I got Geomancer to tie together Totemist/Nentyar Hunter/Suel Arcanamach (I wonder if anyone picked up the awful pun with Peasmiil's name). I'm a big fan of finding unique uses for underdog classes, so getting the synergy in there plus the Illumian aeshkrau sigil was just icing. If I had the time, I would have dug through the gish libraries a little more and filled out the Suel spell list. As it was, the stat block I presented only had 2 buff spells active (Righteous Might, Barkskin), so I didn't even have any Suel buffs active. A couple more buffs would have pumped him up significantly and easily pushed his damage output into the 1000's.

Re: the comment about him being vulnerable to dispelling
- I considered this a problem, but pretty much anything that isn't a full caster is going to face that problem anyways *shrug*
- even sitting in an AMF, he has good strength and 4 natural weapons + multiattack and/or battle jump, so he's not at a total loss

re: next Iron Chef
- the ingredient should be Geomancer  :P
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Akalsaris

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #151 on: February 23, 2009, 04:45:20 AM »
Surreal, what book is Nentyar Hunter from?

Anklebite

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #152 on: February 23, 2009, 04:53:35 AM »
If its any consolation, the fact that Akalsaris took diamond mind maneuvers on a crusader probably backs up the point deduction.  :P
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sonofzeal

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #153 on: February 23, 2009, 05:28:46 AM »
If its any consolation, the fact that Akalsaris took diamond mind maneuvers on a crusader probably backs up the point deduction.  :P
Yeah, I noticed that too (and spent a few confused minutes looking for a "Martial Study" feat).  Wasn't going to say anything because it wasn't really crucial to the build, and we all make silly mistakes sometimes.

Surreal

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #154 on: February 23, 2009, 05:41:28 AM »
Surreal, what book is Nentyar Hunter from?
FR: Unapproachable East - it's a 5 level class, gains 5th level spells in those 5 levels (with several spells at levels lower than normal), plus other ranger related goodies
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Some Handy Links for CO Work (WotC 339 version) - a compilation of links for base/prestige class handbooks, tactics, spellcasting, character builds, D&D databases, etc.
Archived version of the above with working links

The Mango Index - a giant index for all things D&D and where to find them
The Mango List Reborn! - rehosted by KellKheraptis

Lists of Stuff - listing of class features etc and how to get them, etc. sort of like above but a little more specific and sorted by category
Polymorph, Wildshape and Shapechange, oh my! (comparison charts) - side-by-side comparison of all the various form altering abilities
Alternative Class Features
alternative ways to get class skills

pfooti

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #155 on: February 23, 2009, 11:08:03 AM »
I'd like to thank Anklebite for putting this together. Good show!

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #156 on: February 23, 2009, 12:43:14 PM »
another possible rules violation unless i missed it. How are you qualifying to take Assasin's stance SonOfZeal? Unless you got a shadow hand maneuver and swapped and i didn't see it, but not like it is vital to the build.
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Anklebite

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #157 on: February 23, 2009, 12:50:23 PM »
I'd like to thank Anklebite for putting this together. Good show!

Thank you :D

It was fun hosting, but I think I'll let someone else do the next one.... be kinda cool to have a randomly rotating competition, ensuring that the choice of ingredient is entirely random.   :D
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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #158 on: February 23, 2009, 02:53:34 PM »
I'd like to thank Anklebite for putting this together. Good show!

Thank you :D

It was fun hosting, but I think I'll let someone else do the next one.... be kinda cool to have a randomly rotating competition, ensuring that the choice of ingredient is entirely random.   :D

well i should thank you as well, i really enjoyed this.  Think we can get a sticky thread that links to all of the Ironchef Optimizer threads? that way we can all see the previous "episodes".  I would really like to see 1 - 3. Can i make a suggestion for 5? I would like to see it based on spellthief or the master spellthief / psithief feats since there is so much potential for interesting concepts out of that.
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Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

sonofzeal

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Re: Iron Chef Challenge #4
« Reply #159 on: February 23, 2009, 03:42:54 PM »
another possible rules violation unless i missed it. How are you qualifying to take Assasin's stance SonOfZeal? Unless you got a shadow hand maneuver and swapped and i didn't see it, but not like it is vital to the build.

.....and there's my oversight.  Sorry, my bad on that one, I forgot you need a maneuver of that school.  I didn't use any flaws though, so that's easy enough to fix.  Or it could be scrapped in favour of Combat Reflexes.  But yeah, as written it's wrong.