Author Topic: Telepath or Shaper?  (Read 3588 times)

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bogsnes

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Telepath or Shaper?
« on: February 06, 2009, 09:24:27 AM »
I am going to play in a campaign as a Psion, and I just can't decide which of them to choose...
It will start at 3rd level, and it will take a while before each level is gained due to reduced XP per encounter...
I need to know what is the advantages and disadvantages and such for both...

RobbyPants

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Re: Telepath or Shaper?
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2009, 09:55:38 AM »
If nothing else, the telepath gets the quickest access to Schism.
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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Telepath or Shaper?
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2009, 12:20:36 PM »
the only difference is a few class skills and access to some powers without needing a feat. So it really depends on your play style.

Telepath: great for messing with the bad guy's heads. Bluff and Diplomacy as class skills. Charm/Dominate chain, "my enemies enemy is his friend, now that i'm here at least." Brain lock is a good save or loose power, but mind affecting. As mentioned Schism. and who could forget Mind Switch. look at reply 12 for ideas. Perfect lead in to Thrall Herd.

Shaper: Great problem solver/summoner. Bluff and Use Psi. Device class skills. Most people burn a feat just to get astral construct. Creation and fabrication powers are great when you have a bit of time to solve a difficult problem. Crystalize, the only save or die that isn't mind affecting in Psi. Plus you now have a large crystal statue for your house. Astral Seed/Genesis  congratulations you are now a lich without having to rot. Quentessense deserves mention just because anything that pulls things out of the time stream should be considered anytime you want to do something a way the game didn't intend. Wizards has a prc just for you on the site, Constructor, makes astral construct even better.

so it comes down to practical problem solver vs manipulative bastard. If you are using the Complete Crap, i mean Complete Psionics, you should ask your DM about removing the errata they did to screw over Astral Construct, just so a PrC in there could put it back to where it was. If it was really broken they would have done the same thing to the Summon monster chain as well but they didn't.
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bogsnes

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Re: Telepath or Shaper?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2009, 12:56:20 PM »
I think I'll maybe go with Telepathy, and spend two feats to get minor creation and astral construct, but I am not sure, cause creation is cool too...

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Telepath or Shaper?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2009, 01:19:30 PM »
Well, you will only be able to start with one of those two if you go with a telepath, as you only get one feat at 3rd level. I prefer shapers myself, anyway. Especially if you're a warforged. :D
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

bogsnes

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Re: Telepath or Shaper?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2009, 01:22:31 PM »
yeah, but then there is the fact that I like close to EVERY telepath power...

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Telepath or Shaper?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2009, 01:44:40 PM »
The biggest problems regarding telepaths are A.) pretty much all telepathy powers are mind-affecting (which means that many creature types are immune, including you if you get mind blank), and B.) there are lots of feats, spells, powers, psi-like and spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities that affect mind-affecting powers and telepathy/enchantment powers in particular. Like thought shield, mind trap, personal/psionic/mind blank, Hostile Mind, volatile mind, etc etc etc.

Really, telepath is best if you are in a specific type of campaign (political/mostly humanoid), and want to screw with peoples' heads. Shaper doesn't have this issue, and, in fact, can bypass every caster's worst foes: antimagic fields and spell resistance.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from playing a telepath; however, the aforementioned are things that you should consider before playing one. Might I suggest using research, rather than Expanded Knowledge, to nab astral construct/psionic minor creation? It'll save a feat, and you won't have to wait until level 3 to get one. Just take them both as your level 2 powers, and be done. That way you can take Boost Construct as your level 3 feat.

Everyone always seems to forget that manifesters can research.

Also, if you take thrallherd as a telepath, make sure you use psychic reformation or retraining to drop psionic charm and psionic dominate. No sense in overlapping, is there?

Also, have you considered my psionic powers revision? It's got some answers to the whole 'everything's immune to telepathy' problem. Just look at what I did to shatter mind blank.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 01:56:23 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
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[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Telepath or Shaper?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2009, 01:53:35 PM »
yeah, but then there is the fact that I like close to EVERY telepath power...
Unless you want to be useless in some situations, you certainly don't want to take every telepathy power... because as Lycanthromancer said, they are all mind affecting, and won't work on alot of things. I've never been that enamored of them, I guess, and also I know how easy it is to run out of PP as a psion. Astral Construct and Psionic Minor Creation (assuming you can make poisons) give you alot of "bang for your buck". You can fire off an Astral Construct or two at the beginning of a fight, and then not do much else if you want and you're still contributing. I guess the same argument could be made for Psionic Charm/Dominate, though.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 01:57:37 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Telepath or Shaper?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2009, 01:58:30 PM »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

pfooti

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Re: Telepath or Shaper?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2009, 02:09:26 PM »
Remember, you can research astral construct and get it at 2nd level for a minimal expenditure of XP, saving a feat. Also, if you like the telepathy powers, look at the ilithid heritage feat chain in compsi. Good feats for any psion, providing a big bang for your buck.

Either way, don't overlook the anarchic initiate prc. It is primarily a blaster prc, but is trivially easy to get in to and is nothing but buffs for psions. Many, many psions either research energy missile or take EK for it at 6. It has nigh-limitless uses (sonic damage bypassing hardness and doing full damage to items means your five targets can be the holy symbol, spell component pouch, nonmagical weapons, of the bad guys in addition to the bad guys themselves). I played a telepath / anarchic initiate for a while, using AI mostly on things needing blasting (or ego whipping), and the compulsions everywhere else. Very satisfying.   

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Telepath or Shaper?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2009, 02:15:00 PM »
Remember, you can research astral construct and get it at 2nd level for a minimal expenditure of XP, saving a feat. Also, if you like the telepathy powers, look at the ilithid heritage feat chain in compsi. Good feats for any psion, providing a big bang for your buck.
The Illithid Heritage feats are a trap, and they're no more 'bang' than taking Expanded Knowledge twice (Illithid Heritage + Illithid Legacy = Expanded Knowledge x2).

Several don't work at all, and most of the rest are crap (if only because Illithid Heritage is useless and they all require it as a prereq).
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

sonofzeal

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Re: Telepath or Shaper?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2009, 02:21:23 PM »
What I do...

1) Make a list of all powers from each list that I really want to get.

2) From across all the disciplines, make sure I only have a total of three or less at each power level; cross out those I discard, but write 9th level powers twice (since those can't be grabbed with Expanded Knowledge).

3) Count which list is the longest.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Telepath or Shaper?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2009, 02:25:58 PM »
Oh yeah, more shaper advantages:
1) Use Psionic Device can be used by your psicrystal. Give it a dorje of Entangling Ectoplasm and let it go to town. :D
2) You can heal your psicrystal more efficiently than other psions, unless they take EK: Repair Psionic Damage (or learn it via research). (And if you're a warforged, this also is efficient healing for you, and you can share it with your psicrystal to get twice as much healing, which is especially useful with Share Pain. :P )
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Telepath or Shaper?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2009, 02:30:01 PM »
And the Warforged Shaper can coat himself and his Psicrystal in some nasty contact poison in case you have to deal with grapplers :P

EDIT: Warforged are awesome anyway, pick up Adamantine Body for great AC and some nice DR, especially at the lower levels, without any drawbacks :D

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pfooti

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Re: Telepath or Shaper?
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2009, 02:52:55 PM »
Remember, you can research astral construct and get it at 2nd level for a minimal expenditure of XP, saving a feat. Also, if you like the telepathy powers, look at the ilithid heritage feat chain in compsi. Good feats for any psion, providing a big bang for your buck.
The Illithid Heritage feats are a trap, and they're no more 'bang' than taking Expanded Knowledge twice (Illithid Heritage + Illithid Legacy = Expanded Knowledge x2).

Heritage and Legacy are what I was thinking of, and if I recall correctly, they give you four powers that are all worth having. But it's been a while, and I'm AFB. You can always take the relevant powers now and retrain/reformat them away when you do take the feat. I agree, though, that the later feats aren't compelling.

RobbyPants

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Re: Telepath or Shaper?
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2009, 03:00:26 PM »
EDIT: Warforged are awesome anyway, pick up Adamantine Body for great AC and some nice DR, especially at the lower levels, without any drawbacks :D
I'm assuming you say this because psions don't suffer any arcane spell failure?

 Still, don't you take the armor check penalty to attack rolls if you're not proficient in your armor, or is there something about warforged that make them auto-proficient in their own armors?
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Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Telepath or Shaper?
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2009, 03:05:53 PM »
EDIT: Warforged are awesome anyway, pick up Adamantine Body for great AC and some nice DR, especially at the lower levels, without any drawbacks :D
I'm assuming you say this because psions don't suffer any arcane spell failure?

 Still, don't you take the armor check penalty to attack rolls if you're not proficient in your armor, or is there something about warforged that make them auto-proficient in their own armors?

They don't take ACPs from their plating, no.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Telepath or Shaper?
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2009, 03:07:14 PM »
EDIT: Warforged are awesome anyway, pick up Adamantine Body for great AC and some nice DR, especially at the lower levels, without any drawbacks :D
I'm assuming you say this because psions don't suffer any arcane spell failure?

 Still, don't you take the armor check penalty to attack rolls if you're not proficient in your armor, or is there something about warforged that make them auto-proficient in their own armors?

They don't take ACPs from their plating, no.
That was what I was getting at :)
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

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bogsnes

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Re: Telepath or Shaper?
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2009, 08:06:53 AM »
the thing is, there is almost no magic items, and there is going to be a lot of humanoids...
don't know if researching is worth it because of all the time it takes to become even...
BTW, it is an NPC that is going to follow the party for the whole adventure (since I would rather be a PC, but the rest of the players don't even know what PC means, and they are not good enough in english to read it either)...

and it is a gestalt with a Wilder... probably a human...
and getting back the XP I would have lost from researching will take forever, + that I feel like I am cheating if I do...

also, the powers I am thinking of getting is (say if anyone of them sucks):
Demoralize, Deja Vu, Psionic Charm, Psionic Suggestion, Mindlink, Astral Construct, Energy Ray, Mind Thrust, Psionic Grease, Vigor, Synchronity and Aversion...
For feats, I was thinking Expanded Knowledge, Imp Initiative, Psionic Body, Extend Power and Split Psionic Ray...