Author Topic: Help with a Sacred Fist  (Read 3999 times)

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juton

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Help with a Sacred Fist
« on: January 31, 2009, 01:54:07 PM »
I've managed to convince one of my friends to retrain their character, originally they where going to go Monk 6/Cleric 4/Sacred Fist 10. That is a crappy build, we all know this, let's see what we can do to improve this. 

Since this isn't my character I don't have complete control over what goes into it, and I won't have control over how it's used. We are using some rules from Pathfinder, like feats every 2 levels and nerfed polymorph/wildshape. We also have access to an old 3rd party supplement called Swashbuckling Adventures, which has a number of very powerful melee feats in it.

[spoiler="His new Build"]
We use a powerful point buy, not certain about all his attributes but strength will be 20 and wisdom will be 18.
Monk 2, Druid 4, Sacred Fist 4
H : Combat Reflexes 
1 : *Unarmoured Defense
M1: Stunning Fist
M2: ?
3 : *Bruiser
5 : Flying Kick
7 : Combat Casting
9 : Snap Kick

He likes to charge, he's partial to the Flying Kick feat for extra charge damage, stunning fist, combar reflexes and combat casting are needed for Sacred Fist. I'm also recommending that he take a domain in place of an animal companion, the DM runs animal companions so their life expectancy is short.

*: Bruiser lets you apply 2x your strength bonus on an attack, it's written vaguely so it may apply even to Snap Kick, but gives a -2 penalty to attack. Unarmoured Defense increases your base AC by 3 + 1 per 3 levels
[/spoiler]

[spoiler="Attack and Damage Calculations"]
His full attack at level 10 looks like
6 Strength + 8 BAB + 2 Greater Magic Fang, -2 Flurry, Bruiser and Snap Kick = 10/10/10/5, 14/9 if he limits his attacks

That's not great.

Base Melee Damage at level 10
2x Strength (Bruiser Feat, 12 total) + 1/2 Caster Level (Pathfinder Druid Ability, 4 total) + Greater Magic Fang (2 total) + Unarmed Damage (1d8) = 1d8 + 18, (22.5 avg)

He can increase his damage by using Bull's Strength, Produce Flame or the Sacred Fist ability. He also does an extra d12 on a charge, he can cast Lion's Pounce to full attack on a charge as well.

Fully buffed he'll be tossing out 1d8 + 1d6 + 1d12 + 35 damage (49.5 avg) per hit.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler="Spell per Day"]
I've only really thought about to 5th level spells, quantities of each to vary day by day depending on the situation.
1st: Obscuring Mist, Obscuring Mist, Jump, Produce Flame
2nd: Listening Lorecall, the different +4 stat boost spells
3rd: G.Magic Fang, Protection from Energy, Windwall
4th: Lion's Charge, Airwalk, Dispel Magic
5th: Stoneskin, Cure Critical Wounds
7th: Heal
[/spoiler]

I think this could be a very powerful melee character, with or without buffs he hits hard but his attack bonus is pretty sad. The other characters in our group can potententially give him an additional +10 to hit, but I'm getting tired of throwing buffs his way.

So the main points I think I need help on are:
1) How to improve a Druid/Sacred Fist's melee attack bonus?
2) Good spells for an idiot, like buffs he can cast before going into a dungeon
3) Any tips or tricks from someone who's played a similar character.

Thanks for reading!

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Help with a Sacred Fist
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2009, 03:48:27 PM »
Why Druid and not Cleric? (Read: DMM(Persist))
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

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woodenbandman

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Re: Help with a Sacred Fist
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2009, 03:57:41 PM »
Druid does have some better self-buffs (bite of the Werebear, for instance, is worth more than divine power and righteous might combined), but cleric is better for long term survival. However, since he's not going to be wildshaping, I'd actually suggest that he use either a Spirit Shaman or Cleric for his build. Either one of those, he could use Turn Undead, whether through a cleric dip or by being a cleric. If he goes spirit shaman, he should take a level of contemplative and pick up Divine Power or Righteous Might through the strength and war domains (not sure which corresponds to which). He could persist Righteous Might and Bite of the Werebear for +24 Strength, huge natural armor bonuses, and with Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike) he'll be swinging as a gargantuan creature for a load of damage. If he goes cleric, his options are a bit less, but he doesn't have to dip/do domain shenanigans, which means Divine Power/Righteous Might, and he should pick up Travel Devotion.

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Help with a Sacred Fist
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2009, 04:09:01 PM »
That's basically what I was getting at, thanks woodenbandman :)
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

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You caught a fish.  It was awesome.   :lol

Straw_Man

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Re: Help with a Sacred Fist
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2009, 04:45:30 PM »

  Goddamn it DMM:Persist has become the canker in my eye  :banghead *sighs and calms down* But is very powerful. Spirit Shaman is a good option if your going that route.

  If your friend doesn't go there consider the Shapeshift Druid, no animal companion, weak sister WS but you get it from level 1. Also, gives you natural attack when shapeshifted so you don't even need monk, a Monk's Belt with Wilding Class will do you better.
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Help with a Sacred Fist
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2009, 04:49:08 PM »
Agreed, if you go Druid you should definitely make sure you get something out of it a Cleric doesn't get.

Level 5 would get you Wild Shape, but Sacred Fist won't avance that.
Divine Minion (with LA buyback) would make up a lot, but if that isn't allowed and your friend wants to stick with Druid, you might wanna go with Shapeshift Druid instead like Straw_Man said :)
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

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You caught a fish.  It was awesome.   :lol

juton

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Re: Help with a Sacred Fist
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2009, 08:09:14 PM »

I like shapeshift druid, thanks Straw_Man.

I choose Druid for the spell list, I think it has better buffs for a Monk like character and it fits my friend's play style a little better. Travel Devotion is good but I think Lion's Pounce gets pretty much the same effect. He really wants to play a Monk but like most things a better version of a Monk is either a Cleric/Druid/Wizard, I still want it to feel like a Monk though. If he wants to use DMM it's easy enough to dip one level of Cleric before he starts Sacred Fist.

Spirit Shaman is also an excellent choice, it lets him spam spells as he's not all about self control. He also only gets to choose from a small list of spells per day, which I choose for him, so he can't waste his actions casting something stupid.

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Help with a Sacred Fist
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2009, 08:18:30 PM »
If he wants to use DMM it's easy enough to dip one level of Cleric Sacred Exorcist before he starts Sacred Fist.
Fixed that for you ;) (that way he won't lose any casterl levels :))
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

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You caught a fish.  It was awesome.   :lol

juton

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Re: Help with a Sacred Fist
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2009, 08:41:33 PM »
If he wants to use DMM it's easy enough to dip one level of Cleric Sacred Exorcist before he starts Sacred Fist.
Fixed that for you ;) (that way he won't lose any casterl levels :))

Except that Druids and Spirit Shamans don't get Banishment or Dispel Evil.

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Help with a Sacred Fist
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2009, 08:44:03 PM »
I should have remembered that, especially after my recent attempts at DMM(Persistent) Druids...

But yeah, that would require a level of Contemplative as well :)

My bad...
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

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You caught a fish.  It was awesome.   :lol

Operation Shoestring

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Re: Help with a Sacred Fist
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2009, 03:31:31 PM »
If he wants to use DMM it's easy enough to dip one level of Cleric Sacred Exorcist before he starts Sacred Fist.
Fixed that for you ;) (that way he won't lose any casterl levels :))

Except that Druids and Spirit Shamans don't get Banishment or Dispel Evil.

If Ebberon content is allowed, doesn't gatekeeper initiate give you dismissal?

woodenbandman

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Re: Help with a Sacred Fist
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2009, 04:02:20 PM »
ooh, wait. Screw druid, go Archivist! Any build will benefit from a little Archivist, and you can add the druid spells and the cleric spells together for the price of a scroll! It's brilliant!

EDIT: And do Kung-Fu Genius.

juton

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Re: Help with a Sacred Fist
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2009, 05:59:58 PM »
ooh, wait. Screw druid, go Archivist! Any build will benefit from a little Archivist, and you can add the druid spells and the cleric spells together for the price of a scroll! It's brilliant!

EDIT: And do Kung-Fu Genius.

I was going to bring up MAD, then I remembered what Kung-Fu Genius does again. It would work, he'd just have to push Sacred Fist back a few levels due to the BAD requirement, but I think the biggest hurdle would be retraining his character's 18 WIS into 18 INT.

woodenbandman

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Re: Help with a Sacred Fist
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2009, 07:42:11 PM »
Ummm.... Ask real nice?