Author Topic: A Spellsword's Cohort... Bard/Sublime Chord spell advice  (Read 2881 times)

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bitznarf

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A Spellsword's Cohort... Bard/Sublime Chord spell advice
« on: January 26, 2009, 02:34:29 PM »
Hello folks,

Apologies for the wall of text in advance.

I'm looking for some advice regarding spells for Bard/Sublime chord build.  This character is actually a cohort for my PC.  The idea behind the cohort is to be both Delfontaine's (my PC) herald, but his own master of intrigue and politics.  That and smoothing things over whenever Delfontaine pisses off the wrong person as he tends to do.  Mechanically, this means face skills and the ability to manipulate people as needed.  In combat, I'd like the cohort to be both simple to play, and not 'steal the spotlight' if you will from any of the other characters.

I have 2 defining scenes in my mind for this character.

In the first, the 'social/gala' scene, I imagine this character coalescing from nothingness/shadows (mechanically, no longer hiding) to introduce Delfontaine and give him his due etc. From there she would (to a certain extent) be going around the event, putting in a word here and there, making comments, etc. Enough to keep enemies/rivals off balance and focused on each other. This sort of thing.

In the second I picture the character in combat. Very rarely would he actually be casting something that would break his hiding. The average fight would likely consist of a chained/war woven harmonic chorus and a greater d-door, shuttling PCs/animal companions/etc. from place to place. Always hiding, never being a target. That sort of thing.

[spoiler=The Current Party (minor Shackled City spoilers)]
Lord Delfontaine Tercival (me, follow link for complete build)
  • (gestalt) Wizard 9 // Rogue 5 // Fighter 4 // Spellsword 7 // Minor Demon Bloodline 1 (Unearthed Arcana) // Sign of the Smoking Eye (applied template, gives rulership of Occipitus and other minor benefits)
  • Noble of Cauldron (small city), Lord of Occipitus
  • Very much a tank - at level 13 he generally walks around all day with about 15-20 or so spells running. Give or take (probably more). Wears fullplate, etc. Also the party trapfinder.
  • True Neutral power hungry noble (who can sometimes be a bit of a dick to people who annoy him.)

Korbin Lightbringer - (gestalt) Favoured Soul // Paladin of Pelor
  • Has several alt class features to be less of a martial type, and more caster/support type
  • Buffer and healer
  • Lawful Good, and keeps an eye on Delfontaine, wary of his intentions and plans
  • Current Spells Known
    • 0th: Create water; Cure Minor Wounds; Detect magic; Detect Poison; Light; Purify; Read Magic; Mending; Amanuensis
    • 1st: Sign; Lesser Vigor; Ice Slick; Prot Evil -> Needs to be Retrained; Resurgence; Shield of Faith
    • 2nd: Cure Moderate Wounds; Close Wounds; Silence; Dark Way; Divine Insight; Status
    • 3rd: Conviction, Mass; Darkfire -> Persist; Downdraft; Resist Energy, Mass; Magic Circle vs Evil; Magic Vestment
    • 4th: Cure Critical Wounds; Freedom of Movement; Restoration; Recitation; Delay Death
    • 5th: Righteous Wrath of the Faithful; Dragon Breath; Revivify; True Seeing
    • 6th: Heal; Heroes' Feast; Resistance, Superior
Rick Tharcher - (non gestalt) Fighter 11 (I think)
  • Cohort of Korbin Lightbringer
  • Shoots things with arrows

Torval Parvolus - (gestalt) Summoning Druid // Sorcerer // Fatespinner - Hero of Cauldron
  • Summons stuff. Blows it up sometimes, etc.
  • Owner of the Lucky Monkey - a wayside inn developing it's own community (base of operations, etc. for Leadership purposes)
  • Neutral Good, also distrustful of Delfontaine, Hero to the pesantry of Cauldron, something of a womanizer

Ferox - (non gestalt) Warmage / Fatespinner
  • Cohort of Torval Parvolus
  • Blows stuff up.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Cohort's Build]
Human Female: Name?
Str 8: Dex 12: Con 14: Int 13 (buy a tome for +1?): Wis 10: Cha 15

1: Bard 1 - Melodic Casting, Dragontouched, Flaw (Non-combatant), Able Learner
2: Marshal 1 - Motivate Dexterity
3: Bard 2 - Practiced Spellcaster
4: Bard 3
5: Bard 4
6: Bard 5 - Dragonfire Inspiration
7: Bard 6
8: Virtuoso 1
9: Virtuoso 2- Subsonics
10: Virtuoso 3
-- Cohort Starts Play Here --
11: Sublime Chord 1
-- Campaign Currently Here --
12: Sublime Chord 2 - Disguise Spell
13+: Virtuoso - Inspire Spellpower at 15

Current equipment of note:
  • Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis - continuous version; Rod of Extend - lesser; Circlet of Persuasion; Armband of Elusive Action; Third Eye Clarity; Cloak of Charisma; Anklet of Translocation.
[/spoiler]

The problem I'm running into is spell selection.  Our party doesn't have a lot of the typical battlefield control that typically see play - our control tends to come in the form of 'wall of fur' (druid summoning) or simply having enough buffs up that the bad guy's can't do much to us.  I'd like to change this, but I've never actually played an arcanist of any sort (past level 4) prior to this campaign.  The cohorts current spells' known looks like this:
  • Bard 0: Detect Magic; Message; Minor Diguise; Prestidigitation; Read Magic; Summon Instrument
  • Bard 1: Friendly Face; Inspirational Boost; Joyful Noise; Ventriloquism I'd like to fit improvisation in here somewhere
  • Bard 2: Harmonic Chorus (chained via rod); Harmonize; Tongues; Silence - probably not needed with Sculpt Sound covering party noises;
  • Bard 3: Glibness; Ray of Dizziness; Sculpt Sound
As the cohort just reached 11th level, she now knows 2 4th level and 1 5th.

Spells Known at 17th level:
  • SC 4: Solid Fog; Mirror Image, Greater; Voice of the Dragon; Ruin Delver's Fortune
  • SC 5: Dimension Door, Greater;  Wall of Force; Dispel Magic, Greater; Reciprocal Gyre?;
  • SC 6: Snowsong; Find the Path; Otto's Irresistable Dance;
  • SC 7: 2 more
  • SC 8: Maze?

So what I'm looking for here is some advice regarding spell selection and usage.  Do I really need voice of the dragon?  I can't see her actually using an orb of x, so what do I take instead?  Same goes for reciprocal gyre, she would be much more likely to use song of arcane power and then dispel rather than blast with gyre.  What spells have I overlooked based on this cohorts style?  etc.

Any WotC 3.5 non-setting specific book is allowed.  If it comes from another source (Dungeon/Dragon, Ebberon, Forgotten Realms, 3.0, 3rd party, etc.) I can bring it up with the DM, and so long as I can make a good case for it (and it doesn't lead to 'you break it you buy it') I'll generally be allowed to use it (probably).  Also note that I can use the PHB2 retraining rules for minor tweaks, anything larger requires DM approval, but would generally be allowed.  As a note, the PCs are expected to get to 21st level, so cohorts would max at 17th barring Epic Leadership.

P.S. This is cross posted from the wizards.com CO boards a few weeks back, but with a slightly different aim this time around.  Origional thread found here.

Edit: edits are in blue
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 04:22:54 AM by bitznarf »

woodenbandman

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Re: A Spellsword's Cohort... Bard/Sublime Chord spell advice
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2009, 03:13:08 PM »
Maybe use another PrC for levels 9 and 10, since you can afford something with a cool ability that loses Caster Levels at this point, such as... I'm blanking right now, but insert class here. Oh, right, War Weaver!. Take your War Weaver levels before level 10, take Virtuoso at level 10, then go Sublime Chord1/Virtuoso+9.

Reason for doing that would be so that you can progress Sublime Chord all the way to the end of the line with your Virtuoso levels, because it's a 9/10 class you can apply the spellcasting boost to your Sublime Chord casting at level 2 of the class, thus netting ninth level spells, but you can still afford to lose a few caster levels.



bitznarf

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Re: A Spellsword's Cohort... Bard/Sublime Chord spell advice
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2009, 03:36:42 PM »
I debated War Weaver already, but I lose way to many skills for my tastes - keeping hide, move silently, perform, spellcraft, diplomacy and bluff all up there is simply not possible with war weaver given the requirements for sublime chord.  Also note that this cohort has already seen play, so to change over to a war weaver build would require several levels of retraining, with many suck levels in between.

Caelic

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Re: A Spellsword's Cohort... Bard/Sublime Chord spell advice
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2009, 05:59:33 PM »
Scratch my original question--the character's already in-play.  Hmm.

Voice of the Dragon is definitely useful to your build.  It's a real pity your first level spells are locked in; Improvisation is phenomenally good for a skill-intensive concept.

I actually quite like Protege, but it's definitely a niche spell.  Duelward (or the vastly-superior Battlemagic Perception from Heroes of Battle) can be useful if you're going to counterspell a lot.  (I'm fond of taking Practiced Spellcaster and Song of the Heart, and then using Inspire Greatness and Song of Arcane Power to jack my caster level up by 7.)

Drums of War is also from HoB, and is underrated: a -2 penalty to attacks and saves that stacks with everything and allows no save has its uses.

Otto's as a sixth-level spell: absolutely.  It's strong as an 8th level spell, and godlike at 6th.

Greater Anticipate Teleportation can be a lifesaver at higher levels.  Superior Resistance is always in demand.

« Last Edit: January 26, 2009, 06:11:27 PM by Caelic »

bitznarf

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Re: A Spellsword's Cohort... Bard/Sublime Chord spell advice
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2009, 06:35:05 PM »
I can use the retraining rules from PHB2 to retrain my bard choices.  What would you suggest I drop in favor of Improvisation?  Same goes for Battlemagic Perception? (I'm trying to convince our Sorcerer to take it, but he doesn't have the spellcraft to back it up).

Drums of War looks pretty good for my last 4th level spell.

Where is Song of the Heart from (and what exactly does it do)?  Note that with only 6 bard levels, I don't have Inspire Greatness.

At the moment either my PC (full wizard casting) is giving the cohort greater resistance, or the favored soul is giving out superior resistance.  My wizard is also covering (Greater) Anticipate Teleportation, though freeing up a spell slot on him isn't a bad idea.  Same would go for the Superior Resistance.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2009, 06:38:35 PM by bitznarf »

Caelic

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Re: A Spellsword's Cohort... Bard/Sublime Chord spell advice
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2009, 12:00:18 AM »
I'd drop Ventriloquism, personally, but I suppose that depends on how much your DM lets you do with it.

Song of the Heart is from the Eberron Campaign Sourcebook, and increases the effects of Inspire Courage and Inspire Greatness by 1--+1 to the IC morale bonuses, +1 temporary hit die and +1 to the bonuses of IG.  Probably not worth it with only 6 levels of bard.

bitznarf

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Re: A Spellsword's Cohort... Bard/Sublime Chord spell advice
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2009, 12:38:13 AM »
I've been using Ventriloquism to throw my voice so that I can still give out my Marshal bonus (have to be heard) without immediately giving away my position.  If I had known of the feat prior to building, I would probably have taken bard 9.  Regardless, Virtuoso levels do stack with bard for IC bonuses, and I have a Vest of Legends on my to buy list.  I'm not sure that the feat is worth it though, as it would require giving up some of the more thematic elements of the build - notably Subsonics or Disguise Spell, which (as I see it) allows her to function in the social scene without drawing suspicion.

What about Battlemagic Perception, what might I drop for that?

bitznarf

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Re: A Spellsword's Cohort... Bard/Sublime Chord spell advice
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2009, 02:55:07 PM »
Does anyone have any suggestions for my 7th/8th level slots?  Nothing jumped out at me as appropriate while reading through the wizard lists.  Sure there are plenty of good spells, but I'm looking for ones that fit the character, and the party.  I might nab Superior Invis perhaps, though I expect that most important mobs we would be fighting at that level will have true seeing anyway.