Author Topic: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!  (Read 3642 times)

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CountArioch

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Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« on: January 21, 2009, 07:29:22 PM »
Alright, a woman in my campaign wants to join, and she seems to want to play a Hexblade.  (Her exact words where she wanted to be good at fighting, have some minor magical ability but not be the focus, and she wanted to be able to curse people.)  She also has expressed the interest in the Mindbender PrC. 

I found that it's actually fairly easy for a hexblade to become a mindbender, but less easy for the class grouping to be worthwhile.  How can I make this work?  The other players are far from min-maxed themselves (Half celestial elf psion with a half celestial elf soulknife cohort, a ranger/conjurer with a ghoul bard/wizard/Ultimate Magus cohort, a bard/rogue, and a single classed halfling rogue.)

Her is a list of books I am allowing in sblock format:

[spoiler=Books I allow for PCs]
Player's Handbook
      Players Handbook 2
      Expanded Psionic Handbook
      Complete Warrior
      Complete Mage
      Complete Adventurer
      Complete Divine
      Complete Psionic
      Tome of Battle
      Tome of Magic
      Races of the Wild
      Races of Destiny
      Races of Stone
      Stormwrack
      Frostburn
      Sandstorm
 Cityscape
Dungeonscape
      Miniatures Handbook
      Heroes of Horror
      Heroes of Battle
      Unearthed Arcana (Selected Portions, mostly alternate class features)

Also, I ignore ASF if you are proficient in the armor you are wearing.[/spoiler]

Anyone can whip something up using those parameters?
She hasn't come to crush your bones, nor tear your flesh
She has come to steal your sanity with just one glance

Sacrapos - At First Glance, Eluveitie

Straw_Man

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Re: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2009, 07:49:28 PM »

  What level are they at and what alignment does she want to play?
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

CountArioch

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Re: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2009, 07:52:44 PM »
Level 12, and evil might be an issue with the half celestials in the group.  She's also a beginner, so something that's fairly simple would be ideal.
She hasn't come to crush your bones, nor tear your flesh
She has come to steal your sanity with just one glance

Sacrapos - At First Glance, Eluveitie

altpersona

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Re: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2009, 08:12:08 PM »
so, does the following work, at least for the basic bit...

hex5/mb1/xxxxx

using practised / precocious (charmperson...) / meta +1 (or heighten)

should be 6th lvl caster w/ 1st lvl spells @lvl 6.

if its legal.. from there ???

i have never used a hxb.. so i dont know what works with the curses...
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Loke

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Re: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2009, 08:25:38 PM »
If she isnt set on the Hexblade class, but rather the fighting, spellcasting concept some kind of Gish would be a good idea i think, focusing on debuffs and self buffs for fighting abilities.

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Negative Zero

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Re: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2009, 08:31:05 PM »
She could play a straight Cleric. Curses, good fighting ability, and casting. I don't know Mindbender, but it sounds arcane so a Cleric probably can't qualify.

ninjarabbit

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Re: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2009, 08:47:53 PM »
hexblade5/mindbender7

1-power attack, improved initative
3-practiced spellcaster
6-obtain familar
9- improved familiar: player's choice
12-ability focus: dominate

At level 7 of mindbender you get the dominate ability so I'd allow her to have something dominated to start the game within reason so between that, a familar, and a dark companion she's got herself a nice little posse.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2009, 08:49:50 PM »
so, does the following work, at least for the basic bit...

hex5/mb1/xxxxx

using practised / precocious (charmperson...) / meta +1 (or heighten)

should be 6th lvl caster w/ 1st lvl spells @lvl 6.

if its legal.. from there ???

i have never used a hxb.. so i dont know what works with the curses...
I don't think you need Precocious Apprentice, do you? Hexblade with Practiced Spellcaster should qualify for Mindbender, and a 1 level dip in Mindbender is decent just for Mindsight. Maybe go into Suel Arcanamach later.

So how about something like Hex5/MB1/SuelArc 1/Abjurant Champion 5 to start? X is any full BAB class. Then either go back to SA, or into another gish/caster PrC. Take the first level of Abjurant Champion before Suel Arcanamach, due to the BAB prereqs of each.

There are a ton of Hexblade fixes laying around. If she really wants to focus on that, you might use one, as the original sucks pretty bad.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

altpersona

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Re: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2009, 08:51:54 PM »
could just go duskblade..


it dosnt really need the precocious. i had been looking for early entry and failed..
The goal of power is power. - idk
We are not descended from fearful men. - Murrow

The Final Countdown is now stuck in your head.

Anim-manga sux.


PhaedrusXY

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Re: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2009, 08:55:15 PM »
could just go duskblade..
Yeah, but she wanted to curse people and be a hexblade. Hexblade is a good lead into SA, and getting access to a few wizard spells will let her pick up a few buffs and other ways to "curse people". :P
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Straw_Man

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Re: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2009, 08:58:57 PM »
« Last Edit: January 21, 2009, 09:01:03 PM by Straw_Man »
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2009, 09:13:17 PM »
If she really wants all the crap that comes with later Mindbender levels, then she should ditch it entirely and be some kind of Thrallherd. That's what the Mindbender should have been...
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Straw_Man

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Re: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2009, 09:15:59 PM »
If she really wants all the crap that comes with later Mindbender levels, then she should ditch it entirely and be some kind of Thrallherd. That's what the Mindbender should have been...

  I agree with you man, but if thats what the lady wants ....

 
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

CountArioch

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Re: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2009, 09:37:45 PM »
I'll maybe suggest Paladin of Tyranny multiclass.  On one hand, one of the PCs (the half celestial) seems pretty adamant on fighting evil.  However, she doesn't actually have a way to detect that easily, and Hexblade does have undetectable alignment early on...  :lol
She hasn't come to crush your bones, nor tear your flesh
She has come to steal your sanity with just one glance

Sacrapos - At First Glance, Eluveitie

Straw_Man

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Re: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2009, 09:43:32 PM »

  Exactly! You could go with just straight Hex and Mindbender, but it's too ... lackluster by itself. Not enough oomph.
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

CountArioch

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Re: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2009, 09:45:42 PM »
And technically, I never made a rule about not being evil.  I just said "If a given alignment would make you act like a douche you can be assumed I don't want you to play it".
She hasn't come to crush your bones, nor tear your flesh
She has come to steal your sanity with just one glance

Sacrapos - At First Glance, Eluveitie

woodenbandman

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Re: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2009, 10:10:14 PM »
How about a hexblade/spellthief, with Master Spellthief? She could steal spells as well as sneak attack, and she'd be decent in a melee. Charisma would also help both classes, and her spellthief caster level would be good, not to mention she'd be able to cast spells better than a hexblade. Loss of BAB is a bitch, but she only really needs 4 levels of hexblade, then one of mindbender, then 7 of spellthief. If she can go all the way to spellthief 13 that's great too.

If that doesn't work, a Hexblade/Paladin of tyranny is great, though that's a bit dark.

Oh hang on... She's expressing interest in multiple levels of mindbender? Wow, you're screwed. Umm... Reflavor a bard? That's probably the best mix of fighting, spells, and charming.

I have a divine bard11/cleric 1 that I'd like to pimp for a second. I'm actually thinking that he'd be better as a Divine Bard10/Cleric1/Contemplative1, with a choice of either more contemplative or more divine bard. Contemplative to get War or Strength, unless (please, god) there is a single domain that grants a beautiful combination of both Divine Power and Righteous Might, in which case I will turn purple and dance around in a fluffy hat. Cleric takes Planning and Undeath. See where this is leading? You can persist righteous might as well as something like Greater mirror image or greater blink. The rules of adding domains to a spontaneous class let you learn divine power/righteous might, whichever you like or both, and with only 1 extra turning (plus undeath domain), you can persist 2 buffs per day with only an 18 charisma. it gets way better if you pimp your turning with nightsticks, extra extra turning, and more charisma. My feats for this guy were lyric spell, combat panache(swapping for melodic casting, only took it because I didn't have access to the book), and the persist/dmm chain. This build keeps the spellcasting part around the level that your other party members will likely be able to handle, and it fulfills the criteria of her build. It even wears heavy armor!

Now, keep in mind, this bard character I made was actually an undead (bone creature, but necropolitan works), because of the sexy sexy immunities, the loss of CON for bigger hit dice and, most importantly, to solve the MAD. Divine Bard requires wisdom and charisma, as opposed to just charisma. If I hadn't lost my CON score, I would have had like 40 hps, nowhere near enough to wade into melee. If you get temp HPs from heroism and such, as well as take improved toughness, your HP will be fine. Also, I didn't take cloistered cleric, but if you allow it, pimp knowledge devotion. I used the bardic knack in this build and I frequently casted improvisation, which should work nicely with knowledge devotion to make this build fair much better in melee.

Straw_Man

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Re: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2009, 08:00:39 PM »

  How'd it go, which build worked for her?
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

CountArioch

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Re: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2009, 08:33:33 PM »
She actually liked the idea of the Paladin of Tyranny/Hexblade/Mindbender/Abjurant Champion build. 

She needs to pick out gear yet, but unmodded she had a 14str/20cha to start out with.  Should turn out well.
She hasn't come to crush your bones, nor tear your flesh
She has come to steal your sanity with just one glance

Sacrapos - At First Glance, Eluveitie

Straw_Man

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Re: Optimization request, don't say I didn't warn you!
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2009, 08:48:56 PM »

  I'd throw in a feat that adds a domain's spells to your spelllist at level 18. Something with a lot of abjuration spells so she can use the Extended and Swift Abjurations that Abj. Champion gives.
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."