Author Topic: Dirty Trick Handbook Fixes  (Read 73263 times)

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #80 on: February 20, 2010, 07:32:06 PM »
Violent thrust for telekinesis: the spell.  You can shoot off CL weapons, with a total weight of 25*CL lbs, and they deal damage normal for their size, so you can get crazy-high damage.


Mirror mephits are from shattered gates of slaughtergarde, can be summoned as a second level spell, and have simulacrum at CL 9 as a SLA.  As per the MM, it only take s a standard action to use.
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Prime32

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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #81 on: February 20, 2010, 07:47:05 PM »
Quote
Explosive Spell [Metamagic]
You can cast spells that blast creatures off their feet.
Benefit: On a failed Reflex save, an explosive spell ejects any creature caught its area, sending it to a location outside the nearest edge of that area, dealing additional damage and further knocking creatures prone. For example, all creatures in the area of an explosive fireball that fail their saving throws not only take full damage but are pushed to the closest square outside the perimeter of the spell's 20-foot-radius spread. likewise, an explosive lightning bolt moves targets that fail their saves to outside the area defined by the squares the bolt's line passes through. Any creature moved in this manner also takes an additional 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet moved (no additional damage if moved less than 10 feet by the effect) and is knocked prone. If some obstacle prevents a blasted creature from being moved to the edge of the effect, the creature is stopped and takes 1d6 points of damage from striking the barrier (in addition to any damage taken from the distance moved before then). In any event, this movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Explosive Spell can be applied only to spells that allow Reflex saves and affect an area (a cone, cylinder, line, or burst). An explosive spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level.
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[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
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Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Anklebite

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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #82 on: February 20, 2010, 07:52:00 PM »
Quote
Explosive Spell [Metamagic]
reminds me, gotta make a 120ftx5ft corridor with an explosive lightning bolt at one end. preferably, triggered by a pressure plate halfway through.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #83 on: February 20, 2010, 09:11:10 PM »
Excellent, it uses the word "perimeter.
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Prime32

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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #84 on: February 20, 2010, 09:54:32 PM »
Excellent, it uses the word "perimeter.
But only in the example of a fireball, a three-dimensional effect. For a lightning bolt, a one-dimensional effect, it says to move "outside the area defined by the squares the bolt's line passes through" to the nearest edge.

It's implied that you would treat locate city's area as a disc 5ft thick.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 09:58:25 PM by Prime32 »
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The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #85 on: February 20, 2010, 11:02:35 PM »
Locate city explicitly detects things above and below the disc anyway, so...
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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #86 on: February 21, 2010, 07:09:37 AM »
Locate city explicitly detects things above and below the disc anyway, so...
We actually had this debate before: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1698.0
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PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #87 on: February 21, 2010, 08:12:24 PM »
That thread title rocks  :p

Violent thrust for telekinesis: the spell.  You can shoot off CL weapons, with a total weight of 25*CL lbs, and they deal damage normal for their size, so you can get crazy-high damage.
375 pounds total at 15th level for up to 15 weapons means you want the most damage per weapon weighing 25lb.

large bastard deal 2d8. So that 5th level spell if you happen to have 15 of those suckers does 30d8 (8-240) without any str mod, and requires attack rolls. Is that broken enough?

Mirror mephits are from shattered gates of slaughtergarde, can be summoned as a second level spell, and have simulacrum at CL 9 as a SLA.  As per the MM, it only take s a standard action to use.
Page in shattered gates of slaughtergarde? Horrible organization in that thing...
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #88 on: February 21, 2010, 08:17:33 PM »
Violent thrust for telekinesis: the spell.  You can shoot off CL weapons, with a total weight of 25*CL lbs, and they deal damage normal for their size, so you can get crazy-high damage.
375 pounds total at 15th level for up to 15 weapons means you want the most damage per weapon weighing 25lb.

large bastard deal 2d8. So that 5th level spell if you happen to have 15 of those suckers does 30d8 (8-240) without any str mod, and requires attack rolls. Is that broken enough?

Mirror mephits are from shattered gates of slaughtergarde, can be summoned as a second level spell, and have simulacrum at CL 9 as a SLA.  As per the MM, it only take s a standard action to use.
Page in shattered gates of slaughtergarde? Horrible organization in that thing...

You can get much higher Violent Thrust damage.

And Rules Compendium overrides MM rulings. SLAs take normal time to cast according to that IIRC.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #89 on: February 21, 2010, 09:38:06 PM »
You can get 4d6 apiece easy from colossal sianghams or crossbow bolts.  If you're willing to shell out actual money (as opposed to the minor cost for nonmasterwork weapons), you can do some really serious damage.
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jojolagger

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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #90 on: February 22, 2010, 02:20:57 AM »
G) The H.I.V.E. (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-386506) = Use the Vermin Lord's cap ability to create a swarm like no other.
Fix: No need, so long as your interpretation is correct:
[spoiler]The H.I.V.E. is broken RAW. The problem is in the overlapped but not identified as such part of BoVD pertaining to hive minds. All a hive mind is is a swarm (or large, tight collection of larger creatures) that has become intelligent thanks to evil. Check it out, the language is almost exactly the same. Therefore the 3.5 MM trumps the 3.0 BoVD while they conflict.

"You could stack multiple swarms in the same square" - No you can't. SigmaJargon messed up and no one pointed this out. Instead of tracing the rules carefully (as I have to do when I look for weak spots for debunking) people saw some aritmetic and concentrated on the PrC ability, instead of the flaking rules surrounding it. Swarms are nearly completely full of mass for their size. Yes there is a bit of air around the creatures but this is hardly enough to jam more swarms in the cracks. Indeed the fact that smaller sized creatures are allowed to fit MORE THAN the difference in their size indicates that there is less and less are around the smaller creatures.

To get more swarms to overlap is possible only if the swarms are first incorporealized (good luck getting an AOE incorporealization spell, rather than a 'touch' one). Anyways even if you did manage to incorporealize all 10,000 creatures in a fine storm and do this multiple times to stack a swarm, one would wonder if these creatures can still for a hivemind (seems completely against the flavor and reasoning behind a hivemind consciousness to me).

Okay so going further we have to continually incorporealize these creatures or they will corporealize and bump each of the other swarms out of the shared space, thereby breaking the space limitation and dispelling most all the power of the hivemind. Yes in the mean time you will have skills and feats (the casting is iffy). But some temporary high feats and skills don't make a super character. But for one swarm we can make this permanent. A fine wasp swarm by definition will net you 10,000 creatures within 10 feet. This gives 206 int and charisma once you join and are tiny size (if you are small perhaps 204 or 200 if you are medium). The rest of the swarm casts as a 189th level sorcerer (187 if small, 184 if medium).

Congratulations you just created a ultra-intelligent, ultra-powerful evil creature. My guess is that once-formed such a creature would realize that it could become a bit more powerful without you, expel you, kill you, and then breed a few hundred more wasps to buff itself. The Zerg Overmind vs. the Xel-Naga anyone? A PC would never want to do this only the DM's BBEG (which can get eaten live by the swarm in front of the party for flavor!). After all the BoVD did have a DM's warning to not let PCs see the book - perhaps it wasn't such a bad disclaimer after all.[/spoiler]
So you can't use swarms. Big deal. Small animals or vermin with swarm-fighting. Back in business. Swarm-fighting FTW.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #91 on: February 22, 2010, 02:47:50 AM »
You can get 4d6 apiece easy from colossal sianghams or crossbow bolts.  If you're willing to shell out actual money (as opposed to the minor cost for nonmasterwork weapons) buy a Metamagic Rod of Chain Spell, you can do some really serious damage.
FTFY. Also, just use colossal arrows. You can hit 50 of them at once with a Greater Magic Weapon + Flame Arrow. No MM Rod of Chaining needed.

Edit: Teh maths.

colossal arrows do 4d6
+5 each from GMW
+1d6 fire each from Flame Arrow

Avg per arrow = 22.5
*15 arrows = 337.5

So yeah, not really broken.


You could instead use Minor Creation (Black Lotus Extract), and then just chuck flasks full of that with Telekinesis. Or alchemist's fire (is there a way to make this temporarily for free?), or Fire Seeds ("throw" all those Holly Berry Bombs at once :D ). That gets around having to hit their full AC, instead of touch AC.

Or use other spells to add "save or die/suck" effects to each arrow (or flask...).
« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 01:11:16 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #92 on: February 22, 2010, 03:01:28 AM »
I'm talking about using special materials.  Like that one form of evil ice that deals wisdom and/or constitution damage.  Add in poision, since if you throw enough saves at somebody they're eventually going to roll a 1.

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Endarire

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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #93 on: February 22, 2010, 03:34:52 AM »
-White Raven Tactics - White Raven3 (Crusader3, Warblade3), Requires One White Raven maneuver
Initiation Action: 1 swift action, Range: 30', Target: 1 ally

Choose an ally within range.  You can give him part of your turn you haven't taken - a move, standard, or full-round action.  He then takes this extra turn immediately after your turn.  His normal initiative count doesn't change.
   You two must be able to see or hear each other, and must know where each other's location.  You don't need line of effect to your ally.
   A creature can be affected by White Raven Tactics only once per round from any source.

There.  White Raven Tactics is fixed.
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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #94 on: February 22, 2010, 09:32:13 AM »
-White Raven Tactics - White Raven3 (Crusader3, Warblade3), Requires One White Raven maneuver
Initiation Action: 1 swift action, Range: 30', Target: 1 ally

Choose an ally within range.  You can give him part of your turn you haven't taken - a move, standard, or full-round action.  He then takes this extra turn immediately after your turn.  His normal initiative count doesn't change.
   You two must be able to see or hear each other, and must know where each other's location.  You don't need line of effect to your ally.
   A creature can be affected by White Raven Tactics only once per round from any source.

There.  White Raven Tactics is nerfed to near uselessness.
All you need is to say you can only have it applied once and it's fixed. Maneuvers are supposed to have a net effect (= gain), yours wouldn't, de facto, because you would be saying that your actions are worth less than the other guy's actions - which is a tactical but circumstantial application. I do see an interpretation dispute in your wording, too, because it could mean you can grant him those actions, or transfer those actions to him. Give is not precise when an action is an abstract thing.

WRT isn't nearly as bad as people think, IMHO. The short range takes care of a lot of possible uses, and limiting it to one application is perfectly sufficient. Certainly a group of Warblades and (less so, due to randomness) Crusaders can pass it down the line to get effective three turns to every two, and that would end up very powerful, but only for line fighting, with a max of 10feet distance, AND when set up in the correct initiative order. (i.e. the last guy on the normal turn must be on the edge of the line).  It's a nice tactic for NPCs and enemies :).

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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #95 on: February 22, 2010, 10:00:48 AM »
Mirror mephits are from shattered gates of slaughtergarde, can be summoned as a second level spell, and have simulacrum at CL 9 as a SLA.  As per the MM, it only take s a standard action to use.
Page in shattered gates of slaughtergarde? Horrible organization in that thing...
They're (also?) in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits (page 208). No idea which is more recent, as I don't have Slaughtergarde.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 10:02:37 AM by Agita »
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #96 on: February 22, 2010, 04:25:38 PM »
Yeah, it's actually demonweb... I think I got confused with Serene Guardian.
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2010, 04:34:06 PM »
Yeah, it's actually demonweb... I think I got confused with Serene Guardian.

Yeah I didn't think it was in Shattered Gates but I wasn't sure so I didn't say anything. Isn't Shattered Gates a level 1 goblin adventure?  :lol

Seems I'm thinking of Scourge of the Howling Horde.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 04:38:01 PM by bearsarebrown »

PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #98 on: February 23, 2010, 06:28:11 AM »
So you can't use swarms. Big deal. Small animals or vermin with swarm-fighting. Back in business. Swarm-fighting FTW.
The text seems like it would only work with 2 such creatures. Are we sure it works for 3+?

WRT isn't nearly as bad as people think, IMHO. The short range takes care of a lot of possible uses, and limiting it to one application is perfectly sufficient. Certainly a group of Warblades and (less so, due to randomness) Crusaders can pass it down the line to get effective three turns to every two, and that would end up very powerful, but only for line fighting, with a max of 10feet distance, AND when set up in the correct initiative order. (i.e. the last guy on the normal turn must be on the edge of the line).  It's a nice tactic for NPCs and enemies :).
did i put anything on there about WRT? An 'any given creature may only gain 1 turn per encounter by this method' rule should suffice

And about them mirror mephits... are we sure simulacrums will have all the special qualities of whatever is copied? The "and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD" seems to indicate the DM should only allow a quality if a half HD version would have it, like a savage progression for any copied monster... This is all kinds of borked if its just 'slave of anything in the universe' sort of deal (because we all know CL can get very, very high)
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

Brainpiercing

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Re: Dirty Handbook Fixes
« Reply #99 on: February 23, 2010, 06:41:59 AM »
did i put anything on there about WRT? An 'any given creature may only gain 1 turn per encounter by this method' rule should suffice


YOU didn't. I was responding to Endarire.