Author Topic: Vermin Wild Shape  (Read 3759 times)

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CannibalSmith

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Vermin Wild Shape
« on: May 23, 2008, 06:54:10 AM »
Either through a feat or the Vestment of VerminshapeDMG2. Has anyone had any experience with that? Are there any vermin that don't suck? They have piss-poor ability scores, and their special attack DCs are 10 mostly. And what happens when Enhance Wild ShapeSC comes into play (for the Ex special qualities)? Do any of them have anything better than Darkvision or Tremorsense?

Agita

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Re: Vermin Wild Shape
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2008, 07:13:17 AM »
I prefer MoMF if you want to wild shape into vermins and get Ex abilities. However, if you want to keep your spell progression, there's various forms of poison among vermin, though they generally aren't very impressive. The monstrous spiders' web ability can come in handy if you need some battlefield control, and the centipede has a monstrous (pun not intended) grapple score (But you'd get that anyways. No need for Ex here.), although for the really good stuff you'd need to be able to become Gargantuan or even Colossal. Just never, ever, wild shape into a giant bee. And if you do, never, ever use your stinger.
All in all, I think you're better off wild shaping into stuff other than vermins.
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CannibalSmith

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Re: Vermin Wild Shape
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2008, 08:11:27 AM »
Grapple:
Large Monstrous Centipede: BAB+5 (doesn't have Improved Grab!!!)
Brown Bear: BAB+12

Giant bee... well, I'm not asking you to reaffirm that vermin suck. :)

Are there any worthwhile non-core vermin?

Agita

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Re: Vermin Wild Shape
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2008, 08:30:13 AM »
Grapple:
Large Monstrous Centipede: BAB+5 (doesn't have Improved Grab!!!)
Brown Bear: BAB+12
I meant the gargantuan and colossal versions. +27 and +42, respectively, but again, no Imp. Grab.
I wonder if you can turn into a [insert vermin] swarm. The immunities and stuff would bemoderately cool.
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CannibalSmith

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Re: Vermin Wild Shape
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2008, 08:57:54 AM »
I wonder if you can turn into a [insert vermin] swarm.
Technically, you can (provided you can Wild Shape into such small creatures), but you do not gain the Swarm subtype. Uhh...
« Last Edit: May 23, 2008, 09:02:58 AM by CannibalSmith »

CannibalSmith

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Re: Vermin Wild Shape
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2008, 05:16:43 AM »
It's like they say: add more splatbooks.

Monster Manual 2
Leechwalker: 13 HD, Medium, weak AC and abilities, but Blood Drink (win grapple, drain 2d4 Con from the victim), Improved Grab, Wounding (not Con loss, but the real thing - the victim loses hp automatically and continuously. multiple hits stack!). Enchance Wild Shape adds All-Around Vision and immunities to subdual damage, ability damage, ability drain, and death from massive damage. Also his attack is called "tentacle rake". :)

And that's about it. All other vermin, few they be, that exist suck for their level.

BoSheck

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Re: Vermin Wild Shape
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2008, 06:16:18 AM »
Monstrous crabs from stormwrack?  Those are okay, 1 better than the brown bear on grapple at 6 HD, and a constric ability that isn't too shabby.  Most of the remotely good stuff is too big to use pre-epic, though.

Getting MMV (Siege beetle.  To friggin huge, but the paralysis would be nice) out makes me think...if you use enhance wild shape to gain the Split ability of a Burrow root....
« Last Edit: May 24, 2008, 06:19:14 AM by BoSheck »

CannibalSmith

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Re: Vermin Wild Shape
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2008, 06:30:36 AM »
At that level you have Shapechange.

Oops, I missed the crabs. They're nice. 10 ft. reach, less Str, but a racial bonus on grapple. They're on-par with bears.

Yes, you can spawn a burrow root army. Just don't forget to get yourself the Plant domain and lots of Command Plants spells.

Agita

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Re: Vermin Wild Shape
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2008, 08:13:34 AM »
It's like they say: add more splatbooks.

Monster Manual 2
Leechwalker: 13 HD, Medium, weak AC and abilities, but Blood Drink (win grapple, drain 2d4 Con from the victim), Improved Grab, Wounding (not Con loss, but the real thing - the victim loses hp automatically and continuously. multiple hits stack!). Enchance Wild Shape adds All-Around Vision and immunities to subdual damage, ability damage, ability drain, and death from massive damage. Also his attack is called "tentacle rake". :)

And that's about it. All other vermin, few they be, that exist suck for their level.
Nice. Looks like I need to peruse my MMs more regularly.
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