Author Topic: Build: Ultimately Sublime Magus (Read 5603 times)

Caelic · « **on:** January 08, 2009, 11:29:12 PM »

Toying with a build for a new campaign. The DM wants to use Prestige Paladin and Prestige Bard. I initially toyed with the idea of combining the two via Devoted Performer and Initiate of Milil, but decided it was on very shaky ground, rules-wise.

Build mark 1.01--Apprentice Entertainer removes the need for the Rogue level (thanks again.)

1. Wizard 1: Able Learner, Apprentice Entertainer
2. Wizard 2
3. Wizard 3
4. Wizard 4
5. Wizard 5: Spontaneous Divination
6. Wizard 6
7. Wizard 7
8. Wizard 8
9. Prestige Bard 1
10. Prestige Bard 2
11. Sublime Chord 1
12. Ultimate Magus 1: Practiced Spellcaster (Sublime Chord)
13. Ultimate Magus 2
14. Ultimate Magus 3
15. Ultimate Magus 4
16. Ultimate Magus 5
17. Ultimate Magus 6
18. Ultimate Magus 7
19. Ultimate Magus 8
20. Ultimate Magus 9

This should wind up netting me 18th level wizard spellcasting, and 7th level Sublime Chord casting (8th level spells)--not too shabby.

Thoughts for further revision:

1. Move the prestige bard levels down as much as possible, to take full advantage of Able Learner and a high Intelligence.

2. What backbone of feats would work best with this build?

Ubernoob · « **Reply #1 on:** January 08, 2009, 11:33:31 PM »

Skill knowledge (UA) will do it.

Surreal · « **Reply #2 on:** January 08, 2009, 11:40:40 PM »

The Apprentice:Entertainer feat from DMG2 gives perform and diplomacy as class skills.

Caelic · « **Reply #3 on:** January 09, 2009, 12:16:03 AM »

Quote from: Surreal on January 08, 2009, 11:40:40 PM

The Apprentice:Entertainer feat from DMG2 gives perform and diplomacy as class skills.

Hah! THAT was the one that was nagging at my memory! Thanks!

Good thing, too, because I made a small mistake--the original build caps at 17th level wizard casting. This'll bring it back up to 18th.

anomalousman · « **Reply #4 on:** January 09, 2009, 03:52:47 AM »

As far as I can see, the wizard casting won't be progressed for levels 1,4 and 7 of ultimate magus. So after ditching the rogue, you'll have 15 wizard (losing 1 SC, 1 PB, 3 UM), and 10 Sublime Chord.

Anklebite · « **Reply #5 on:** January 09, 2009, 05:02:14 AM »

practiced spellcaster can change which spellcasting counts as "lower level"... thus allowing for tricky stuff.

however, this is unnecessary, as sublime chord CL is sublime chord level added to your CL in another spellcasting class, making it a feat of optimization to have sublime chord count as the lower level arcane spell casting class.

anomalousman · « **Reply #6 on:** January 09, 2009, 05:40:53 AM »

whoops - my bad.

That means the practiced spellcaster isn't necessary for UM advancement, right? You're just taking it to get the extra +1 CL.

Anklebite · « **Reply #7 on:** January 09, 2009, 07:01:23 AM »

yeah... although, technically, i wonder if he could take the practiced spellcaster for wizard instead, and gain the same boost to sublime chord due to the way it's CL calculations work?

anomalousman · « **Reply #8 on:** January 09, 2009, 08:21:55 AM »

Quote from: Anklebite on January 09, 2009, 07:01:23 AM

yeah... although, technically, i wonder if he could take the practiced spellcaster for wizard instead, and gain the same boost to sublime chord due to the way it's CL calculations work?

Certainly. And you might as well.

Caelic · « **Reply #9 on:** January 09, 2009, 10:05:26 AM »

Let me explain the use of Practiced Spellcaster.

Sublime Chord caster level is not calculated by adding your Sublime Chord level to your caster level in another class; it's calculated by adding your Sublime Chord level to your "level in another arcane spellcasting class."

A lot of people treat this as synonymous with "caster level," but technically, it's not; it's class level.

I try to design all my builds according to the more conservative reading of the rules; that way, they work no matter which interpretation the DM is using.

So: my starting Sublime Chord CL will be 8 (one level from SC plus 7 from wizard--the CL boost from Prestige Bard doesn't factor in under the most conservative reading of the rules.) Practiced Spellcaster raises the Sublime Chord CL to 11, which gives us a comfortable margin in which SC has the higher caster level.

By a more liberal interpretation of "level in an arcane spellcasting class," you're right; Practiced Spellcaster isn't needed to make this work, and is of more benefit when applied to Wizard. However, that interpretation also leads to various infinite CL loops; as a general rule, when there are two possible readings, and one breaks the game, I tend to go for the other.

jameswilliamogle · « **Reply #10 on:** January 09, 2009, 11:28:11 AM »

I'd suggest putting Versatile Spellcasting in there somewhere. Cross-casting makes theurgic builds a lot more viable (I believe by RAW that you can sack either side's spells to cast the others, although you / your DM may interpret it more conservatively, you still should be able to sack SC spells to cast any spell in your spellbook of 1 level higher).

Caelic · « **Reply #11 on:** January 09, 2009, 03:01:50 PM »

Good thought, and it's certainly thematic given the UM's use of spells from one class to enhance spells from the other.

jameswilliamogle · « **Reply #12 on:** January 09, 2009, 06:30:13 PM »

Also, you don't have any metamagics in there yet, and you get 2 for free...

I'd put in (order) Empower, Maximize, Quicken, Twin. Craft Contingent Spell will also be nice. What level are you starting at?

You'd still have 2 feats available if you took all 5... Hrm... Do you see yourself pulling a nova? There's Energy Admixtures, Repeats...

Or Residual Metamagic, which is a bucket of awesome-sauce (and worth it w/ just the 4 metamagics listed in the second sentence).

You could use the UM's Adroit Casting to get 2 rounds of Maximized Enervations for a L4 and 2 L3 slots near the end, which is powerful but not game-altering...

Does anyone know if one can use Adroit Casting w/ a Metamagic Rod (ie, I use my metamagic w/ Adroit Casting THEN use a metamagic rod afterwards, thus not invalidating Adroit Casting's stipulation)?

Caelic · « **Reply #13 on:** January 09, 2009, 07:09:25 PM »

I'm actually leaning towards fitting Persistent in somewhere; between the Sorcerer/Wizard list and the Bard list, there are some nice buffs (Sirine's Grace comes to mind immediately.)

woodenbandman · « **Reply #14 on:** January 09, 2009, 07:20:48 PM »

I like Greater blink/greater mirror image/displacement/greater invisibility. Stack any 3 of those and you've got like a 400 percent miss chance.

50% miss from blink, 87.5% from greater mirror image, additional 50% from displacement = 2% chance to be hit.

altpersona · « **Reply #15 on:** January 09, 2009, 07:39:37 PM »

isnt it 5% chance to be hit? (d20)

woodenbandman · « **Reply #16 on:** January 09, 2009, 07:44:10 PM »

no this has nothing to do with your AC. it's a 25% chance from the two 50% chances, and then reduced to 2. 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.125 = 0.02. Whether or not you roll a critical hit is irrelevant, because it's a miss chance.

altpersona · « **Reply #17 on:** January 09, 2009, 07:45:31 PM »

natural 20?

EjoThims · « **Reply #18 on:** January 09, 2009, 08:26:16 PM »

Quote from: altpersona on January 09, 2009, 07:45:31 PM

natural 20?

Still requires you to roll the d% for your miss chance.

altpersona · « **Reply #19 on:** January 09, 2009, 08:28:42 PM »

true, i stand corrected.

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Author Topic: Build: Ultimately Sublime Magus (Read 5603 times)