Author Topic: PBMC Compendium (PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation)  (Read 28845 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Build compendiums I am merely imitating
[Spoiler]PhaedrusXY
Caelic
JanusJones
ksbsnowowl
tsuyoshikentsu
Nanshork[/Spoiler]

What to Post
[Spoiler]1) post some juicy item or feat I missed that can really help a build
I would really like this
2) congratulate me if you don't use PMs
PM's work better without thread clutter
3) Point out a single problem. One at a time, please.[/Spoiler]


Keep in mind that most of the more suspicious parts I actually have looked quite closely at and even if I messed up be nice.  :flutter

What it will take for me to ignore posters to this thread
[Spoiler]If people:
A) take for granted the hours of work it takes to get all this up here,
and
B) Troll upon seeing a small break in my posts because I have some things IRL I to do.[/Spoiler]


1. The Bloodlines Handbook: Balanced Bloodlines Interpretation & Implementation
Everything you ever wanted to know about bloodlines and why most people do not correctly use them.
[Spoiler]Thread Summary:

Quote from: My Opening Post
"Whats the final verdict? Are bloodlines horribly stupid or are they overly unbalanced? The issue seems very polarizing and I think I now know why. We haven't been giving Bloodlines a fair shot at as a balanced variant rule.

In digging through various threads on Bloodlines I see people doing pretty much every possible kind of implementation of Bloodline levels based off their varying interpretations. But the all end up conflicting themselves because they all seem (to me) to not have the RAI interpretation.

I intend to share my interpretation to fix this problem. I will be checking this thread frequently, so go ahead and consider this thread to be THE first and fore-most CO boards accepted implementation of the Bloodlines variant, due to the thread's depth.

We will know we have succeeded when: Given our reading of Bloodlines we would, if allowed, use their slight boost for any character. Like flaws, I see a small be steady gain to be made to most any build so long as we temper our reading of Bloodlines.



Straight from the sources (with my bolding for mechanics and italics for intent):
Quote from: SRD:
Over the course of his career, a character with a bloodline becomes more powerful than one without a bloodline. Because the power gain is gradual over a span of twenty levels, a static level adjustment doesn't truly reflect this difference. Instead, a bloodline character must take one or more levels of "bloodline" at various points in his career, as noted on Table: Bloodline Levels. Before a character with a bloodline reaches the indicated character level, he must take one class level of "bloodline." Class levels of "bloodline" do not increase a character's character level the way a normal class level does, but they do provide certain benefits (see below).

If the character does not take a class level of bloodline before reaching the character level indicated on the table, he gains no further bloodline traits and must take a 20% penalty on all future XP gains. As soon as he meets the minimum bloodline level, he gains all bloodline abilities due him according to his character level, and the XP penalty no longer applies.

For example, A 1st-level character with a major bloodline (silver dragon) receives a +2 bonus on Sense Motive checks as a bloodline trait. When he reaches 2nd character level, he gains the Alertness feat as a bloodline trait. Before he reaches 3rd character level, he must take a level of bloodline in order to continue gaining bloodline traits. if he reaches 3rd character level and has no bloodline levels, he does not gain the bloodline trait due him at 3rd character level (Strength +1) and must take a 20% reduction on all future XP gains. If he later meets the minimum required bloodline levels, he gains his 3rd-level trait at that time (as well as any other traits he may have failed to receive for not taking his bloodline level right away), and the XP reduction no longer applies to future gains. Before reaching his 6th character level, he must have taken two levels of bloodline in order to keep gaining bloodline traits. If he takes his third bloodline level before reaching 12th character level, he becomes eligible to gain all the traits of his bloodline (as they become available when he reaches new character levels).

A bloodline level grants no increase in base attack bonus or base save bonuses, no hit points or skill points, and no class features. It counts as a normal class level (with no class skills) for the purpose of determining maximum skill ranks. Levels of bloodline never result in XP penalties for multiclass characters.

Include the character's bloodline level when calculating any character ability based on his class levels (such as caster level for spellcasting characters, or save DCs for characters with special abilities whose DCs are based on class level). The character doesn't gain any abilities, spells known, or spells per day from the addition of his bloodline levels, though—only the calculations of his level-based abilities are affected.

If a character has levels in two or more classes in addition to his bloodline levels, each class gains the benefit of adding the bloodline levels when calculating abilities.
Interpretations of the bold and italicized features in consecutive order:
Quote
=Interpretations:]
The overall intent is supposed to be a slow BUT REAL gain.

The bloodline penalty for all these tasty abilities is not just an LA.

The bloodline level is RIGHT BEFORE (not anytime before or we could take all 3 as level 0, 1, and 2 for only a 3000xp loss...)

If they mean at why do they say 'before'? because it is RIGHT BEFORE the actual level 3/6/12 class levels.

no HD, bab, saves, features... its not an ECL class. And the 'it counts as a normal class level is ONLY for skill rank purposes, NOT ECL

We only have Bloodline level-dependent gains for abilities that are character abilities. So we first categorize what abilities get boosted by the total effect on the character, not by division of the class levels.

The 'each class' part is for classes that are wildly different (like barb and rogue), not for a base class that stacks with a class ability. Remember the above rule and look at the examples - they are not 15 instances of animal companion classes but rather completely seperate true-multiclassing.

Now to check our interpretations against the examples:
Quote from: SRD:
For example, a 2nd-level sorcerer with a major bloodline takes a bloodline level when earns enough XP to advance in level. He is treated as a 3rd-level spellcaster for the purpose of spell durations, caster level checks, and so forth. But he doesn't gain a 3rd-level sorcerer's spells per day or spells known.

Similarly, the stunning attacks of a 3rd-level monk with one bloodline level have a save DC equal to 12 (10 + one-half class level) plus her Wisdom modifier, since the bloodline level is treated as if it were a monk class level when calculating the save DC. A 3rd-level monk/3rd-level sorcerer with two bloodline levels would be treated as a 5th-level spellcaster and a 5th-level monk for determining level-based abilities.

And now the FAQ and its examples:
Quote from: FAQ:
What class features do my character’s bloodline levels (from Unearthed Arcana) stack with? Do they stack with only one class or with all my classes? Do they stack with other class levels for the purpose of meeting prerequisites?

   Your bloodline levels stack with your normal class levels “when calculating any character ability based on . . . class levels” (Unearthed Arcana, page 19). The key word here is “calculate”—it means when you use the level as part of some mathematical determination of the class feature’s power or uses. Abilities that say “add your class level” count, but abilities that say “a character of level X gains this effect” don’t.
   Examples from the Player’s Handbook where bloodline levels would stack with normal class levels include the bard’s bardic knowledge and uses of bardic music per day; the cleric and paladin’s effective turning level; the druid and ranger’s wild empathy; the druid’s HD limit for wild shape; the monk’s wholeness of body, abundant step, diamond soul, quivering palm, and empty body; the paladin’s smite evil and lay on hands; and perhaps most importantly, caster level.
   Many class features improve as you gain levels but aren’t specifically calculated with class level. A rogue’s sneak attack, for example, improves at a fixed rate, but it doesn’t specifically use your class level to calculate its value in the way that the abilities listed above do. The same is true of a monk’s unarmed damage, AC bonus, and unarmored speed bonus, of a barbarian’s number of rages per day, and so on. Similarly, it doesn’t add to the power of your animal companion, familiar, or special mount.
   Your bloodline levels never actually grant you new class features. A 2nd-level bard with one bloodline level doesn’t gain inspire competence (although he may use his bardic music three times per day).
   Your bloodline levels stack with all of your class levels for this purpose. A 2nd-level cleric/2nd-level druid with one bloodline level has a caster level of 3rd for both classes, turns undead as a 3rd-level cleric, and adds +3 (plus his Charisma modifier) to wild empathy checks just as a 3rd-level druid.
   Bloodline levels don’t stack with class levels for the purpose of meeting prerequisites (such as the minimum fighter level for selecting Weapon Specialization).

Lets lay out the stacking basics:
1 None of the examples lay out a complete and complicated implementation of a major bloodlines in a highly multiclasses (and multi-prestige classed) build.

2 Nevertheless, the examples do mention slightly multiclassed builds. Therefore this is the implied application of the text in question. When the FAQ reiterates bloodlines stacking "with all your class levels" it means specifically that the bloodlines 3 level advancement applies to every level-calculated ability your character has from class levels.

3 So if we keep track of the stacking by each ability per character rather than by each level that grants or Prc that stacks with a base classes' ability, how does this make things better? Because instead of a rebuke-based cleric who dipped into 5 rebuke-stacking Prc's gaining +18 to max HD of a creature he can rebuke, he only gains +3 because the ability is only gained from one actual class - he only has one rebuke undead ability. Now if said cleric were a dread necromancer/cleric multiclasser he would have two rebuke undead abilities and they would each gain +3 - just like the core examples.



Now that the stacking issues seem resolved, what about when and how we take bloodline levels?
1 Though the primary source all uses the word "before", all the examples seem to place the timing of the taking of the bloodline levels immediately before 3, 6, or 12. I counter that they meant 'immediately before' meaning that one takes the level after level 2/5/11 but before you take your normal class level at 3/6/12 after the bloodline level at 3/6/12.

2 'What's this, two levels of 3, 6, and 12?' Yes, because "Class levels of 'bloodline' do not increase a character's character level the way a normal class level does." Since the ECL does not change after the bloodline level the character is free to take a real class level that will put ECL up to 3/6/12. But upon gaining the virtual Bloodline levels, we STILL have to get again all the experience to go to class levels 3/6/12. This forces a Bloodlines character who wants to go from class level 2 to class level 3 actually pays for that level 3 xp twice. This counts as the 'cost' of the levels and the reason they are not free (since they don't add to ECL).

3 'I've got you now! This makes the bloodlines table unbalance minor and intermediate bloodlines in favor of the almost-as-XP-costly major bloodline.' Well no, the table is wrong (comon, its only a small copy and paste error on a table). This is just one of those many misprints that never gets fixed in the errata since UA is mostly variants and seemingly doesn't deserve its own errata. It follows a nice pattern so we know what it should be:

Table: Bloodline Levels
Bloodline Level Bloodline Strength
Minor       Intermediate    Major
1st       3rd    3rd    3rd
2nd       n/a    6th    6th
3rd       n/a    n/a    12th



Other:
1 Its no suprise that the Buyoff (which also uses a 3x formula for when it can act) is in the same book. Both are systems to even out large static gains. Both also use large XP penalties to make them work (bloodlines just uses the confusing term 'level' to help clarify its calculation boostings).

2 Just like Weapons of Legacy, the tools are given to the player to encourage them to create their own personalized Bloodlines. Just like WoL, if all we were allowed to choose from were the set ones, no one would ever use them.



The SRD on creating your own bloodline (Just like Weapon's of Legacy, its only really tasty when you can "Have it your way")
Quote from: SRD:
Bloodline traits fall into four categories.
Ability Boost
You gain a permanent +1 increase to the given ability score. This is similar to the ability increase gained by characters at every fourth level.

Bloodline Affinity
You gain a bonus (either +2, +4, or +6) on all Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, and Perform checks made to interact with creatures of your bloodline.

Skill Boost
You receive a +2 bonus on checks made with the given skill.

Special
You gain a special ability. Common bloodline special abilities include bonus feats, natural armor, special attacks (such as the ability to smite evil or smite good), special qualities (such as resistance to energy, spell resistance, or scent), or spell-like abilities.

If you already have a feat that a bloodline provides as a bonus feat, you may choose a different feat. For example, the minor celestial bloodline grants Alertness as a bonus feat at 8th level, If a character with this bloodline already has Alertness by the time he reaches 8th level, he can choose any other feat instead (subject to normal prerequisites, of course).

...

You might choose to create bloodlines of creatures not included here, to create more specialized celestial, demon, or devil bloodlines, or even to create more potent versions of the bloodlines here for use in your game.

Table: Bloodline Trait Distribution gives you the basic framework for bloodline traits. Over the course of twenty levels, a major bloodline boosts four skills (giving each a +2 bonus) and three ability scores (increasing each by 1). It grants a bloodline affinity at three stages (+2, +4, and +6) and provides ten special abilities. Intermediate bloodlines grant the first ten traits, spread out over twenty levels. Minor bloodlines grant the first five traits.

When creating a new bloodline, use those described above as guidelines for appropriate special abilities.
The SRD major bloodlines chart: (since we will always want a major bloodline unless XP is really a big issue, in which case perhaps you might not want to use Bloodlines or make your own equipment or playing a caster or...)
Quote from: SRD:
1st   Skill boost 1
2nd   Special 1
3rd   Ability boost 1
4th   Special 2
5th   Affinity +2
6th   Special 3
7th   Skill boost 2
8th   Special 4
9th   Ability boost 2
10th   Special 5
11th   Affinity +4
12th   Special 6
13th   Skill boost 3
14th   Special 7
15th   Ability boost 3
16th   Special 8
17th   Affinity +6
18th   Special 9
19th   Skill boost 4
20th   Special 10

So for 21,000xp (for an 0 LA character to have a major bloodline) we get 10 feats, 4 skills with an unnamed +2, +1 to three different base stats, and +6 to many checks with creatures from your bloodline by level 20. Perhaps the xp penalty is a bit steep (you might not get that level 20 class level before your group goes epic) but there are ways to overcome this, ways with which I prefer this thread not concern itself.


How to get your DM to be more inclined to let you use Bloodlines:
Quote from: Make Your DM Happy:
1 Make the fluff match. If you want the extra power from an ancestral line you have to make it make sense for your character. This is more than 'disguising' your power-gaming, its creating coherence.

2 Assign only abilities for which your build will meet the prereqs and preferably do this all within the Bloodline levels. Feat chains should be encouraged. Yes, I know some of the set ones allow feats without the pre-req's but that doesn't mean your DM should.

3 Make the custom abilities match a theme. If you slam the biggest baddest 10 feats you can think of all together, it will stink of cheese. But if you stick 10 low grade but all related feats together, that might slide (opening up the big ones for your HD feats).

A sample Bloodlines attachment to DavidWL's Sam the commoner build:
Quote from: Example:
Sam: Commoner, 50hp
10 strength, dexterity, constitution, intelligence, and wisdom and 16 charisma
Skills: 22 UMD, 20 Handle Animal
Bonus Feat/Flaw:  Quickdraw / Infested with Chickens (via Psychic Reformation at a later level, when Quickdraw is legal)
1st        Apprentice (Spellcaster)
1st        Mercantile Background
3rd        Item Familiar
6th        Leadership
9th        Dragon Cohort (steel dragon loredrake)
12th       Undead Leadership (Necropolitan )
15th       Landlord
18th       Improved Cohort

Now add the 'chicken Bloodline':
1st   Handle Animal +2
2nd   Quickdraw
3rd   Intelligence +1
4th   Improved Toughness
5th   Chicken Affinity +2
6th   Wild Cohort
7th   UMD +2
8th   Run
9th   Constitution +1
10th   Magical Aptitude
11th   Chicken Affinity +4
12th   Improved Cohort
13th   Profession (Butcher) +2
14th   Animal Affinity
15th   Charisma +1
16th   Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Chickens)
17th   Chicken Affinity +6
18th   Wild Talent
19th   UPD +2
20th   Faster Healing

And Sam becomes this:
Sam Commoner, 90hp
10 strength, dexterity, and 12 constitution, 12 intelligence, 10 wisdom, and 14 charisma
Skills: 24 UMD, 19 Handle Animal, 24 Ride, 3 UPD, 5 Profession
Bonus Feat/Flaw:  Apprentice (Spellcaster) / Infested with Chickens
1st        Mercantile Background
1st      Improved Initiative
3rd        Item Familiar
6th        Leadership
9th        Dragon Cohort (steel dragon loredrake)
12th       Undead Leadership (Necropolitan )
15th       Landlord
18th       Weapon Proficiency (Chickens)


Yes, its a bit of work but this is just for a commoner, imagine what it can do for a charger build :)

So wow all done. Since I first read through Bloodlines I was fascinated with the whole XP cost for 3 psuedo-levels thing. Let me know what the board thinks but please don't post a problem unless you have waded through all the mud :D

[...]

Some extras - A full listing of all base clase abilities that stack with bloodline levels besides caster level:
Quote
Barbarian's (and Rogue's) Improved Uncanny Dodge required enemy rogue level to flank
Barbarian's (and Totemist's) Literacy is shaky, requires a DM ruling and I would rule no.
Bard's Bardic music uses
Binder's Effective Binder Level
Cleric's (and Paladin's) turning level, or similiar abilities like Shaman's chastice spirits, etc
Cleric's (and Paladin, Incarnate and Soulborn) Aura strength stacking
Dragon Shaman (and Dragonfire Adept's) breath weapon DC
Dragon Shaman Touch of vitality max hp you can heal
Dragon Shaman Commune with Dragon Spirit questions
Druid's Wildshape HD & duration
Druid's (and Ranger's and Totemist's) Wild Empathy
Hexblade's Curse DC
Incarnum classes' Meldshaper level increases (like caster level)
Initiator Level increases by a half for each bloodline level you have.
Knight's Challenge (and daunting version) uses and DC
Monk's Wholeness of Body healing, Abundant Step CL, Diamond Soul SR, and Quivering Palm DC
Paladin's lay on hands
Paladin's (and Soulborn's) smite evil damage
Manifester level AND bonus PP! (yes both are calculated) for Psion, Psychic Warrior, Wilder, etc
Ninja's Ghostmind DC
Truenamer's Utterance DCs (like caster level)
Spelltheif's max caster level of spells that can be stolen
Spell resistence from various classes
SoulKnife's rounds to sustain mindblade in a null psionics field before remaking the check.

What does NOT stack with Bloodline levels:
Quote
no mount since chart lookup with random ranges, not calculations
No Incarnum Max essentia capacity because it is a chart based and not a calculation
No soulmelds/essentia/chakra binds from classes (like level spells known)
No "at xth level" will count, it has to be a calculation
Nor "every additional x'th level after this one" either

The "per x class levels" is probably fine so long as each new instance of it does not appear in the class's
prograssion table... Your DM might feel this is shaky.


Quote from: Everything Else, from others
"i think you did a great job on this thread"

"if it doesn't increase your ECL thats more interesting. I can definitely see their usefulness because you would then gain some additional exp. Much like LA buyoff, you pay an exp cost for a benefit, and it essentially functions very similar to having an LA+1/2/3 which you buy off very quickly"

"I read the text in one way, you read it in another. In any case, that quote was what I wanted, because even if I don't think it was meant like that, perhaps I can convince my DM using your arguments.  :devil"
[/spoiler]

2. Weapon Graft Power Abuse
Have you pulled all the stops and still want to squeeze more damage out of your melee build? Well look now further if you want to octuple your damage!
[Spoiler]Thread Summary:
Quote from: First Post
Does your TWF Melee character need a little more Umph, or do you just crave as much damage per hit as you can get? If so look here.


Step 1) Be a psionic character via race, hidden talent, psychic warrior , etc
Step 2) Pay an NPC 15,030 gold to Psychic Chirurgery you the power Graft Weapon
Step 3) Buy 2 5pp Cognizance Crystals or have 10PP from other psionic classes
Step 4) Since you can (at your discretion) forever keep your weapons grafted as a natural weapon, take Improved natural attack (grafted weapon) or just get a fanged ring
Step 5) Take the [1LA web-enhancement class version of the] lycanthrope template or play a natural race form or have WS via dip or 40k -> for Warshaper 1

The power, feat and warshaper level boosted my already extremely optimized charger build's lances base damage from 12d8 each to 24d8!

Other helpful goodies stacked so far are:
Arms of the Naga (56k) to make that TWF both 2-handed, allowing that extra PA bonus. Note: If you are using a charger (as I am) the extra arms for 2-handed wielding really help your damage from strength with the Power Lunge feat (Gw37).

Then Totemist2 allows the Girillion Arms chakra bind for another set of arms which when you use to help hold up your weapon allows the originally grafted weapon to be a size up. (A strict very DM might require gloves of man for this purpose)
Combine this with a DMM'ed (and probably swapped) Girillion's Blessing [Cler/dru/Wiz3] (SpC 106) and the original grafted weapon can be another size up.

A second spell, [thanks Callix] Arms of Plenty [Wiz/Sorc3] (LoM 210), could be DMM'd (and probably swapped) for another set of arms which will require the 42k gloves of man to help hold up a larger original grafted weapon.
A third spell, Sharptooth [Wiz/Sorc4] (Drac81) allows you to pick your now grafted weapon and bump up its damage.



The full stackage costs 85.03k gold, an LA to buy off, 3class levels, 2feats (1 w/ naturally psionic races), and 3 DMM-able spells. This nets x8 (totaling 96d8 in my example) on your base damage along with x2 strength (x4 w/ power lunge!) and x2 PA from 2-handing, while giving normal extra hands for mundane things.


Quote from: Everything else
"Nifty. I think there's a graft from either LoM or FF (an Illithid graft, which are in both) that gives you the same effect."

"graft weapon is superior to the illithid graft for damage abuse.   Big Grin"

"Graft Weapon is not a very good power IMO. But I could be missing an amazing application of it."

"the clincher: you fucking can't use your hands !"

"Cute but illegal. You can only graft one-handed or light weapons."

"I also challenge the illegality of using lances ("Cute & Fluffly", I mean legal). Lances may be used in one hand if the character is mounted."

"Nice work carnivore. ... I appreciate your agreement about centaurs perma-mounted state.

"You need to hold your grafted weapon with your other hand supporting it just like Mega Man to get the full benefit of the charge-up beam...I mean Power Attack!"

"Buy Gloves of Man. Girallon Arms/Blessing gives you arms. Gloves of Man let you use arms for anything you can use normal arms for. Similarly, you can add Arms of Plenty."
[/spoiler]

3. Maximum Favored Enemy Coverage
Want every single type as a favored enemy except humanoids and outsiders? If so you've come to the right place.[Spoiler]Thread Summary:
I would like to share one of my more random optimizing excersizes, naming maximizing favored enemies coverage. Normally a Ranger20 has only 5 favored enemies. But we can do better, even if this is only theoretical.

Warning: This contains large amounts of cheesy variants, cross-campaign material and dragon magazines.


Neutral Good Female Human with Goliath SS ritual

Class or Prestige Class ---------- Favored Enemy Gained [or prereq]
Foe Hunter[Dragon Coast] ---- Dragons
Ranger 1 ------------------- Arcanists
Hunter Monk 1 ------------------ Animals
Druidic Avenger 1   --------------- Constructs
Shadow Scout 1   ---------------- Elementals
Non-Spellcasting Ranger 1 ------ Fey
Planar Ranger 1 ---------------- Magical beasts
Ability Variant Paladin 1 - Monstrous Humanoids
Urban ranger 1 ----------------- Oozes
mystic ranger 1 ---------------- Plants
Abolisher 1 --------------------- Aberrations
Goliath Liberator 1 -------------- Giants
Swanmay 2 -------------------- Vermin
cleric 1 ------------------------ [turning for deadgrim]
Deadgrim 2 -------------------- Undead

Extra Favored Enemy Feat ------ For whatever your heart desires.

or if the cheese flows through you go impure prince instead abolisher and pally of freedom to get:
Stalker of Kharash 2 ------------ Evil creatures of ANY type

[...]

That's right, this has every creature covered except humanoids and outsiders, both of which have many, many subtypes as favored enemies. Anything evil and anything that casts arcane spells can be just a bonus. :)

Aside from Swift Hunter or Improved Favored Enemy, I know of little practical use for so many favored enemies. Still, I thought I'd share.[/spoiler]

4. Anti-Precision Damage Types & Subtypes
Does your DM keep throwing types immune to precision damage at your poor precision-based character? Be a scout and go swift hunter to never have those problems again.
[Spoiler]Thread Summary:
What are all the types and that are immune to critical hits and precision damage?

According to the Rules Compendium page 42 Undead, Contructs, Plants, Oozes, Deathless, and Incorporeal creatures are all immune to precision damage. Everyone always remembers the first four, especially the first two.

The BoED corroborates the second to last one. However for favored enemies undead should cover deathless as well.

The incorporeal subtype (for a non-undead let's say) are only immune in the sense that you can't interact with them. But this isn't a true 'immunity' since a ghost touch weapon should take care of that.

Also the SRD mentions that elementals are also immune to critical hits, while the Rules Compendium forgot...

I also remembered some aberrations have the no discernable anatomy would be immune to critical hits. This seems to be a catch-all for any type that sufficiently changes its anatomy to avoid criticals. A Warshaper would be the exception, though usually the shapechanger subtype is just as vulnerable to criticals as any humanoid.

Lastly the SRD also mentions that all creatures with the swarm subtype also have "no discernable anatomy" and would similarly be immune to precision damage. These creatures tend to be of the animal and especially of the vermin type, but can be just about any type outside core. This seems to be a separate subtype that spans enough types that it should be listed as a favored enemy option.

So, how many types or subtypes am I missing that would be immune to precision damage, assuming that the ranger list of favored enemies could support it?[/spoiler]

5. Dirty Trick Handbook Fixes
Pun-Pun got you down? Too many ascended characters out there? This is where we get to plug those loopholes!
There is no summary for this is massive tome, but at least its on the same board.

6. A successful Triple 9's Build
Discussion of build #4 on 339.
[Spoiler]Thread Summary:
"Maybe you want to check my variant here. It has no rebuilding and no dependence on circumstances.
Enjoy  :)"

"Very nice alternative. Notice though that this build has 2nd, 3rd & 4th level arcane spells and the triple 9s are in the main casting lists.

Also no ardent ML trick is needed (though there are two temporary instances of chirurgery)
Quote from: Jenos
Ardent 5/Ur-priest 2/Psychic Theurge 4/Beholder Mage 1/Mystic Theurge 3/Cerebremancer 4/Mystic Theurge +1

is a perfectly workable triple nine that surreal came up with a while back in the simple question/answer thread. Note that that isn't the exact build progression, I believe it goes into MT first then Ur-priest.
Hehe if you go back to see who surreal was answering it was me! Because I mentioned how I had a triple 9's build (and later I clarified that it was from the main casting lists). Sorry for taking so long to post this, I was busy at the brilliant gameologists site with my dirty handbook fixes here."[/spoiler]

7. The way ECL should be
ECL = Floor[HD/2-LA] + LA + Class levels
[Spoiler]Thread Summary:
Quote from: First Post
From here I said I would get to this thread but got a bit sidetracked with my Successful Tripple 9's Build

In a few of the campaigns I have played, racial HD did not count toward ECL. I want to know how balanced the CO finds ignoring the first (LA*2 + 1) HD. Above that HD should count fully to help maintain prereq and iteration balance. It did not seem nearly as powerful as I see gestalt builds becoming.
For DMs who can handle a bit extra power from their players this doesn't seem all that uncommon. Some even do both. For instance:
Quote from: Tonymitsu
The GM is not counting HD gained from templates towards ECL. So to answer which side of the gestalt build the HD count against, the answer is neither side.

Now before we start talking about legendary advanced weretigers keep in mind how many DMs have those in their games. At the risk of narcissism:
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
HD not counting towards ECL is the way the ECL rules should be, instead of the way it is now, IMHO. Take a look at the way HD normally scales with LA...

I find that as long as the BaB from template and racial HD + from class levels does not exceed 20, at no point is there early-epic craziness. Also restrict abilities that give 'shadow' class-levels or use your HD in its benefits caluclation is in order (not too difficult for a player to quickly notice this though).

That said, any sane DM would restrict lycanthropes to non-advanced non-legendary animals, as well as further restrictions on tauric stupidity. Also I think that Ghestalting is asking for trouble, no matter how you slice it, so keep in mind my comments are only for balanced, non-ghestalt games.
So here are the full changes in an orderly format:
0) This variant is done on a character by character basis. Some in the party might use this but, not all must. This is why its a 'variant' and is actually useful.

1) Racial HD does not normally add to ECL. This makes most races ECL = Class Levels + LA. For exceptions see below:

2) The racial HD does not get con bonus to HP as class levels do. DMs should be strongly encouraged to waive this exception if they want PCs with more normal amounts of HP - IMO PC HP is way too low compared to the damage they can receive.

3) If a race has racial spellcasting related to its racial HD, remove that abilities racial power source up to it's HD. For instance an psychic Illithid would have no psuedo psion levels but a Spellweaver would still have 2 psuedo sorcerer levels. Remember that this variant is done in a character by character basis allowing a psionic illithid to not use this variant while a spellweaver in the party does.

4) Skill points for the first level are not added twice. So a character with racial HD and one class level may choose either to have the 4x(_+int) for either according to the HD or the class level's skill point allotment.

5) Skill points from racial HD do not allow a character to exceed the normal 3+ECL max since the HD no longer count towards the ECL.

6) BAB still counts as long as the total BaB from HD and ECL is doesn't exceed 20 (if it would exceed 20 it is instead set to 20). However PrC prereqs may at DM discretion not use the racial BAB especially if it would not otherwise be possible for that PrC to be in the build later on.

7) Natural healing rate is based off of ECL and so is not affected by the free racial HD, though this might seem a bit counter intuitive. If you want the RHD to help, it won't make a difference


8) Per level option of LA or RHD counting towards the required level for buyoff. This makes buyoffs happen a bit earlier. For players who use restoration cheese add a 1 iteration cap on each 'magic level' per LA row in the chart.

What does this do in total? It gives players a small power boost (BaB, skills, saves) rather than making them purposely suicide and indebten themselves so that they can remove their racial HD via ressurection and actually take useful class levels.

Thanks guys for the inspiration for using the LA*2 tier (floored of course).

Quote from: Everything Else
"my view on it is that if you want to use this system, create some sort of tier to ignore HD."

"A Lammasu will not unbalance this variant. Thinking about it again makes me want incorporate this idea for more scared DMs who don't want a firegiant breaking their campaign [something I am not at all scared of  :twitch]."

"Cr would (or at least, it should) fail to capture abilities which are useless to the monster for the 5 rounds of combat it is expected to face the PCs, but might be invaluable to the PCs over the course of their adventuring career."

"So far the most offending parts are:
A) Stats like high str and nat
B) iteratives from BaB (how much does this really matter?)
C) outliers that are the normal ECL rule's equivalent of high LA with little or no racial HD; low LA, high HD
D) Strange casting that might have consequences EVEN AFTER THE RACIAL HD COMPONENT of said casting is removed. Please make sure we have all read 3)

My consolidated answers are:
A) This should be the role of LA. If the Wizards messed up on this blame the LA part rather than the random HD.
B) Iteratives make players happy, even though they seem rare in actual play. Also I seriously doubt how much of a difference this makes against monsters with decent AC
C) I challenge to see if there are really more outliers under this system than under the normal system. Perhaps it is just giants that need to be addressed specifically.
D) SLA are incorporated into LA, so we are left with really cool racial casting like the spellweaver (+2 even after removing the racial HD part). For gynosphinxes they just have a cool DC that like all other LA benefits eventually is next to worthless"

"Dragons and outsiders come to mind. They tend to have a respectable amount of fairly good HD in addition to their high LA."
[/spoiler]

Warning - You are about to see the most advanced versions of some classic builds ever posted on the boards (atleast that I have seen after much, much digging)

 .
. .    Before complaining about RAW, keep in mind I am advancing these build ideas as far as I can without resorting to NI-infinite or infinite TO.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2011, 11:27:55 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2008, 09:14:29 AM »
8. WotC's Prereq Philosophy
[Spoiler]Thread Summary:
Quote from: First Post
1) Do you think the higher the prereq's for a PrC the better the abilities should be and vice versa?

2) Do you think, aside from a few outliers, that WotC has pretty much implemented this philosophy?

Quote from: General Community Responce
No to #1: 1
Yes to #1: 6 (7 including my vote)

No to #2: 5 (->6 Ultimately WotC failed, but I'd like to say that they tried at least a little for this)
Yes to #2: 2

Which I take to mean that #1 seems pretty agreed.

For #2 there seem to be enough people disheartened by flawed PrCs to consider WotC inconsistent, though this still seems debatable.

Quote from: The Meaty Parts
"The slightly longer answer is that I think PrCs was a great concept but that later changed into an abomination of themselves"

"I don't particularly see too much of a problem on the planning part since I think it also (for a good player) forces a clear character concept from the beginning too, which I understand might take the don't-know-what-I'll-be fun away but..."

"Yes, the price should affect the reward."

"If we're accepting that some requirements are steep and others aren't, what constitutes 'steep'?"

"I do generally believe in the higher the pre-req or (as mentioned above) spending feat slots on "subpar" feats (toughness,iron will) should grant you better abilties in whatever PrC classes you progress in."[/spoiler]


9. Illithid Savant Bootstrapping The rationale used to get the epic progression of Illithid Savant without being an epic character.

10. More Feats Than You Can Shake A Stick At. This will eventually be included on a build below, specifically as a body-guard build.

11. Maximum Rebuke->Commanded Undead, featuring Neutral Flavor! See build 5

12. Gestalt ECLx versus non-gestalt ECLx? Comparing Gestalt and Non-gestalt for use in one campaign is hard. With the board's help, I came up with a comparison scheme as follows:
[spoiler]1) the LA and HD matter needs to be cleared up. For those following the inane but RAW ECL=HD+Classes: LA should be on one or both sides but be applied alongside or before the LA. For 1 LA side users, if an LA is applied a class level should NOT be present on the other side. An optional exception would be for Racial LA or racial HD for an even more power.

   I prefer my ECL variation for mostly-free racial HD & having the LA on 1 side & allowing class levels on the other side of Racial LA. (For those who like low power campaigns LA should be required on both sides and the regular ECL calculations will ensure everyone is human)

2) The pure-combatant vs hybrid vs full caster arguments seems like an excuse to keep casters the ROFL PWNZORZ that they are in non-gestalt. I like balance (no really!) so even within a specific tier empowering the gishes and pure combatants while not really helping the casters seems fair to me. If anything, they are the danger. I even question if I'd allow the full casters to go the full 20 class level non-gestalt manner. They will still be stronger than the gish or pure-combatant anyways even when hampering them down to a max for 15//15. This leads to the class levels.

3) I'd say that a slightly underpowered mapping would be this: 5=4//4, 10=8//8, 15=12//12, 20=16//16,
Regular   Gestalt
1      1//1
2      2//2
3      3//2
4      4//3
5      4//4
6      5//5
7      6//5
8      7//6
9      7//7
10      8//8
11      9//8
12      10//9
13      10//10
14      11//11
15      12//12
*16      13//13*
17      14//13
18      15//14
19      15//15
20      16//16

*Here is the sweet spot before regular old wizards start throwing around 9th level spells and everything normally goes to Hell.[/spoiler]

13. WLD: Most Balanced Campaign? An attempt to use particular interesting [reasonable] nerfs from this campaign to close the tier gaps. The gap is big, so its only an attempt. The debate was longer than I expected and also fairly vigorous. Have a read.

14. Optimizing a Tier 5 run. Limit the Tier's you are allowed to play with, force the starting starts to be horribly low with a painful point buy, add in the above WLD restrictions, and what do you get? A dog-eat-dog style of play. I rarely try with board challenges, but I still like this one. For those who dig, limiting races (try smelly goblins!) and banning templates makes things extra edgy. Rules:
[spoiler]
Quote
All characters must be about tier five! A Character may take up to level 10 in a tier five, and up to level 1 in a tier 4 from any tier 4 class, and up to 20 in a tier 6 class

Prestige classes are limited to the tiers +0, -1 and -2. Keep in mind they might be very difficult to qualify for so "early" entry tricks might be your only hope.

Start at level 2 (but this does not mean character have no backstory. Characters should have a backstory like LA1 and a class level, etc). Why not level 1? Because it erases starting wealth inequality (and I dislike rolling).

WBL and multiclass penalties are enforced.

The most broken aspects of the game are fixed

All characters must play small, ugly goblins. At no point may they have any LA.

Some WLD circumstance house rules will be in effect:
The no traveling-through-walls whether by being ethereal, melding into stone, etc

The no teleportation out or transporting other things in. So no summoning effects, etc.

No turning into another creatures. Polymorph, wildshape, etc give DMs a headache. The exception are those with the shapechanger subtype (if no set list only 1 form must be chosen). Lycanthrope animals can't be templated and don't gain HD or effects derived from it (skills, hp, feats, ECL, the stat points on the highest stat). Furthermore only natural lycanthropes have the true animal form and both forms only get 1/4 the dominant physical stat, then 1/2 the next (usually str or dex).

XP is gained based on area (this is good if you are good enough to go quickly through the areas). This means no 'farming' easy encounters for crafting XP.

The DM maliciously rolls a random encounter exactly when it would hurt the PCs and they know this (but they will also be told if they are being allowed a temporary safe area.)

This campaign is generally pretty harsh. Expect extreme environments.
Quote
Use a 40 point stats TOTAL. This means you get 34 points to add in addition to the following stats
1 Str
1 Dex
1 Con
1 Int (but will be brought to 3 automatically if no points are put in)
1 Wis
1 Cha

An example is: 7str, 8dex, 10con, 3int, 9wis, 5cha   [7+8+10+(1, not 3)+9+5 = 40]
Another example is: 1str, 1dex, 18con, 18int, 1wis, 1cha   [1+1+18+18+1+1 = 40]
[/spoiler]

15. Making Half-Fiend Have a Smaller LA
[spoiler]The OP:
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCmpAn;6871631
The LA4 half-fiend template sounds steep... Would taking away these abilities render it LA3 or LA2?:
"# No additional attacks
# Natural armor boost
# Immunity poison.
# Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, electricity 10, and fire 10.
# Damage reduction: 5/magic (if HD 11 or less) or 10/magic (if HD 12 or more).
# A half-fiend’s natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction." "Smite Good (Su): Once per day the creature can make a normal melee attack to deal extra damage equal to its HD (maximum of +20) against a good foe.

Spell-Like Abilities: A half-fiend with an Intelligence or Wisdom score of 8 or higher has spell-like abilities depending on its Hit Dice, as indicated on the table below. The abilities are cumulative. Unless otherwise noted, an ability is usable once per day. Caster level equals the creature’s HD, and the save DC is Charisma-based.
HD   Abilities
1–2   Darkness 3/day
3–4   Desecrate
5–6   Unholy blight
7–8   Poison 3/day
9–10   Contagion
11–12   Blasphemy
13–14   Unholy aura 3/day, unhallow
15–16   Horrid wilting
17–18   Summon monster IX (fiends only)
19–20   Destruction"

All I want to know is if this is balanced. Let me know if there are other suggestions for an LA3 or LA2 version of the template also.

Basically, is this pruned version worth LA2?:
[spoiler]Become an evil, native outsider
average maneuverability bat wings, fly at atleast your base land speed
Spell resistance = HD + 10 (maximum 35).
Str +4, Dex +4, Con +2, Int +4, Cha +2[/spoiler]

The Other Posts:
Quote from: PId6;6871676
It probably wouldn't be too strong at LA +3 even if you don't take away anything.

Quote from: ericgrau;6873539
Or make up something halfway in between for LA +2.

Quote from: herrhauptmann;6877750
I personally think the half fiend/celestial templates would be playable as a LA +0 if you got rid of everything except the wings and level dependent abilities darkness/desecrate etc.

Quote from: Cyclocone;6879852
So +2 LA overall wouldn't be too low for a fighter type (IMO), and +3 would be a b!tch to buy off*. If you let Lolth touch you and get your mineral on you end up with way better physical stats (and DR, and Burrow, and Fear-Immunity...) for +2 LA, and it really isn't too broken because of the mental penalties.

Quote from: PlzBreakMyCmpAn;6888225
Okay... so LA2.

Do I hear any more? Anyone for LA3?
[/spoiler]

16. My Only Locked Thread, and proud of it! Its funny stuff.

17. Rationalizing LA. Providing a more less mechanic 'check' to the ECL of various races. Oddly my ECL variation is the only to make the LA justifiable for most things :)
[spoiler]The OP
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCmpAn;7475590
This thread here got me thinking if anyone has any schemes to independently calculate (presumably with a point system) what a race's LA should be. I have an example system based off the worth of a feat but I'd like to see if someone else thought of something like this.

So by looking at similar features of LA+0 races and assigning points you could get a point range for an LA0, LA1, LA2 race, etc without relying on CR or the listed LA.

The System:
[spoiler]Lets make a 10 deep point-buy system for an LA. So 1-10 points -> LA+0 (because lets face it ECL0 races still give benefits), 11-20 ->LA+1, 21-30-> LA+2, etc.

The points are evaluated as follows:
1 point = a set feat that is dead except maybe prereqs. Examples are dodge or toughness
2 points = a unique feat. Perhaps it achieves a strange effect. Or perhaps it just plain rocks. Examples would be Otherworldly or Nymph's kiss.
3 points = a chosable feat. Because this way you get to customize any of those feats you feel you need.[/spoiler]

Some examples with PHB races:
   -Human-
[spoiler]0: Medium
0: 30'
2.5: ANY feat at FIRST LEVEL!
2: +4/+1 skill points like that 1 exalted feat but with no alignment restrictions
2: any favored class like that 1 races of destiny feat
.5: any languages (int high humans can be polyglots easily, especially if your DM is wary of telepathy because of mindsight)
.5: human subtype (for prestiges and feats, etc)
==========
8 -> LA+0[/spoiler]


   -Dwarf-
[spoiler]1.5:+2Con, -2Cha (+2 without -2cha; I'd rather have a feat, but not all the time)
1:same speed medium or heavy load (unique tooth ability, +2 without only 20' movement)
.5:60' darkvision (everyone and his mother has this, except its not useful like flight)
1:stonecunning is uber trapfinding (the intuiting and no need to active search are cool) and +2search
1: no need for exotic weapon feat for 2 weapons
1: stability
1: +2saves for poison and spells and SLAs
.5: +1attack orcs and goblins (depending on campaign)
1: uber dodge feat but only on giants
1: +2 appraise and craft on stone or metal
0: language list (its pretty normal)
0: favored fighter is as normal as it gets
.5: dwarf subtype (lots of PrC's and items, etc)
==========
10 -> LA+0 [this makes sense since some maintain that dwarves are on the LA+0 and LA+1 fence][/spoiler]


Now for a humanish example with LA and racial HD.
   *centaur*
[spoiler]2:+3natural armor (most of these bonuses DO NOT STACK and 3 is actually kinda low. It feels like str bonuses to me. But oh wait those stack ...)
4:+8str (str is as common as dirt, but 8 is nice to have)
8:+4con&dex (these are worth their weight in gold)
-2:-2int (unfortunately so is this)
1:+2wis (would be 1.5 if this were for a caster like cleric, but that's not a real option for a centuar as we will see)
1:size (being the long type sucks. Stairs are you enemy. The rating would be double this if you were tall not long)
.5:50' move is nice (being over 30 is mostly all you need to outrun most creatures)
.5:60' darkvision (everyone and his mother has this, except its not useful like flight)
0:language selection is small but so is a centaur's int :(
0: favored class is roughly according to fluff (scout would be better IMO)
.5=2 hoof attacks. These are pretty worthless. Especially by the time centaurs are 'supposed to be in play' with a class level at ECL8. I don't even roll the dice (they never hit and the damage isn't worth the hassle)
.5:quadrapedal stature. Even though it doesn't give stability like most others (huh...) it does let you have the 'always mounted' affect for yourself (usually a non-issue) or carry 1 smaller (instead of 2 for humanoids) this only matters for 'iconic' lance-wielding centaurs.
0:monstrous humanoid type. This type is actually really bad since it is hard to qualify for cool templates. But since it gives another good save I'll set this at 0 instead of -1 (see the saves part below)
0: I forgot about the weapon proficiencies. Even commoners can use simple weapons. If you actually use a longsword or longbow you will get it from your class. No these aren't feats.
========
16 without Racial HD which are worse than ANY class  level (fighters would be proud)

Without racial HD pulling down your ECL this still outside the 20-30 range for LA+2. But what about those flabby racial HD? How much would it pain us to give them for free?

1.5:a d8 HD is normal. The full casters with this or a d4 really don't need more HP (they are smart enough to not have to melee). The hard-core melee types either succeed because they are a barbarian at a d12 (who doesn't really need much more HP) or fail at life like the monk or ranger. Essentially the people who think "Ooo! I could use that!" aren't competitive anyways. I'll put it at 1.5 because it feels close to toughness (3hp~4.5hp).

.5:2+int is crap. Remember that the int is low but a static low level bonus might have been useful if it weren't for the fact that its only for FOUR pathetic skills and must obey your skill level cap.

.5:a BAB is nice but aside from prereq - which can be circumvented more easily than CL! - they only give a melee bonus (yay...) and the chance at 1 more iterative which is still capped at 4 (shucks). Would you give a feat up for a pre-req useless BAB? Probably not.

.5:reflex save post first level progression. Look above for where the will save went. This part is only the +1 per 2 levels above 1.
=======
3*4=12
+
2:for the 'multiclass' initial good reflex and will saves. This is DIRECTLY comparable to feats.
======
12+2=14

if you get the racial HD for free then we arrive at 16+14=30 -> LA+2 [this also makes sense since Faerun initially had centuars as LA+3][/spoiler]


Now for a dwarf-ish example with both HD and LA:
   *Azer*
[spoiler]5:+6nat! now we are talking
2:+2str&wis
6:+2dex&con&int
-.5=-2cha
1:extraplanar (banishment is rare and will probably make you happy, but not needing to eat or sleep is damn cool)
1.5:fire subtype means you need ice immunity or you will get +50% cold damage. But fire immunity is nice.
0:medium
0:30' movement
.5:darkvision
1:martial, light&medium armor, and shield proficiency are nice if you for some reason are missing those in your class.
1:+1 fire damage is a big whoop. But whatever.
2:SR of 13+levels. That 13 is wierd. This doesn't count the LA or the racial HD :(
0:the languages are normal, if elemental and outsider-ish
0:fighter favored class.
2:outsider type (like that otherworldly feat but obviously you can't be another race)
=======
21.5 without racial LA existing.

racial LA:
1.5:a d8 HD
2.5:8+int is great and its for eight mediocre skills.
1.5:save progression after the first racial level.
=======
5.5*2=11
+
.5:a BAB
3:for the 'multiclass' initial good saves
=======
11+3.5=14.5
for a total of 21.5+14.5=36

This one even with free LA doesn't meet the 40 mark for LA+4.[/spoiler]


And now lets try for a giant, but one thats a challenge:
   *Ogre Mage*
[spoiler]4:+5nat
7:+10str&4wis
16:+6con&4int&6cha
2:large(tall)
.5:40'
.5:darkvision 60'
.5:lowlight (A touchstone feat actually gives this)
1:martial weapon proficiencies, light armor and shields
2:SR19. That 19 is wierd...
5:change shape to be small to large human or giant. Awesome.
3:40'(good) Su free action flight, also 40'(perfect) while gaseous (neat)
9:regen 5(fire&acid), 1 minute reattachment, 10 head or vital organ window
4:at will darkness&invisibility SLAs (CL9)
5:1/day charm person (DC14), cone of cold(DC18), gaseous form & sleep (DC14) SLAs (CL9)   
0:languages
0:favored sorcerer (fits the name!)
=======================
59.5 without racial LA existing.

racial LA:
1.5:per d8 HD
1:2+int is eh for four decent skills.skills.
.5:save progression after the first racial level.
.5:a BAB
=======
3.5*5=17.5
+
1:for the 'multiclass' initial good saves
=======
18.5 for a total of 78 which checks out perfectly[/spoiler]

The Discussion Highlights[spoiler]
Quote from: sonofzeal;7478310
They do generally over-estimate...   It only really breaks down in the massively overvalued ones (Vampire, Dragon, Lich)

Quote from: Sstoopidtallkid;7478339
I can't think of a single situation where I'd play a half-dragon. The template has no advantages that are worth it. Most things with SR are similar, with the most obvious case being the Drow. There are a few that are generally worth thinking about(Dark, half-ogre, many that you mentioned), but generally, they aren't playable in a decently powered game without severe optimization.

Quote from: PlzBreakMyCmpAn;7505193
I'm surprised this didn't have more notice. This system, if effective, can be used to determine other ECL things, like how 'worth it' racial HD's are.

Quote from: PlzBreakMyCmpAn;7520095
Ya that is a Frank and K tome. It was a good try but CR just isn't the way to go

But doesn't anyone disagree with this? I am basically providing quantitative explanation that the ECL system is very, very wrong.
[/spoiler][/spoiler]

18. The Prerequisite and Early Entry Handbook. Its freaking big. Need skill ranks, feats, spell or manifestor levels? This need be your only stop.

19. Board Challenge: Can You Qualify For These Prestige Classes? The board did very well on these, as did I. I'm happy about it.

20. Estimate the LA of this Hillariously Bad Custom Race. What the optimizers agree a -6LA race might look like:[spoiler]Pipsqueek characters possess the following racial traits:
* Fey with negative normal x2 Low-light vision, x2 darkvision 60 and scent. Gaining Low-light vision or scent returns normal sight or smell. These penalties may not be removed, except upon gaining the countering ability.
* -7 natural armor penalty. (All additions stack until this is positive, though replacements will take any negative version)
* +8 Strength, -2 Dexterity, +8 Constitution, -8 Intelligence, -6 Charisma
* Diminutive size. +4 bonus to Armor Class, +4 bonus on attack rolls, +12 bonus on Hide checks, -12 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits a quarter that of Medium characters.
* Space/Reach: 0 feet/0 feet.
* Base land speed is 5 feet.
* Racial Hit Dice: A pipsqueek gains equal levels of fey when it gains class levels or LA. These HD are d4, weaker than other fey. A pipsqueek's racial hit dice do not become the appropriate type because of type changes. These HD do not count towards ECL.
* Racial Skills: x+int where is equal to the lowest of any class levels in your build. A pipsqueek ’s fey levels' all skills are cross class except concentrate, hide, listen, move silent, and spot if these skills are always in class for every base and prestige class level. A pipsqueek has a -12 racial penalty on all skills and ranged attacks.
* Spellcasting inability: A pipsqueek cannot use items to cast magic of any kind (infusions, shadow arcane or divine spells). (Su) and (Ex) abilities from magic items are acceptable. It cannot take classes that would provide magic, psionic, pact magic, maneuvers, or incarnum 'casting-like' ability. Non-spell completion magic, shadow magic, psionic items, and pact magic items function normally. This inability cannot be removed by any means, even a wish spell.
* Spell Resistance: 3*HD - 3. This affect cannot be suppressed, voluntarily lowered, or removed. Whenever a spell overcomes the resistance, the pipsqueek becomes dazed.
Note: A circle leader with CL40, Assay Spell Resistance (+10) Lower Spell Resistance (-15), and surge of fortune (20) is only blocked by SR85. Prayer Beads, consumables, Arcane thesis, metamagic, etc makes double-digit SR trivial.
* Spell-like abilities: Maddening Scream (continuous effect, self-only, no save, not (Complusion) or [mind-affecting])
* Automatic Languages: none. Bonus Languages: none.
* Favored Class: none.
* Level adjustment: -6 that is not factored into ECL or LA buyoff. Only the first class level may be taken in lieu of LA from this free LA.[/spoiler]

21. New World Record Mount Familiar Companion by HD. For the OP see the edit on Build 3
[spoiler]Aside from one person who was beyond hope of understanding the mechanics the posts were great:
Quote from: Pluto;7925981
Ha Ha :smallbiggrin:
Very nice.
I like the way you packaged this too (Interpretations/Reasonings/etc). Digging up books to recheck exactly which wordings allow the combinations to work is a bitch.

Quote from: FishAreWet;7926443
:smallbiggrin:
It's nice to see things like this.
I'm usually not comfortable with this amount of cheese in character building but it's still a great theoretical exercise.

Quote from: sofawall;7929286
Hmm. This build works, but I instinctively dislike any build that needs some sort of backstory fulfilled.

I mean, it's a damn good piece of optimization, but it's not what I look for.

And of course this lovely post finished everyone up:
Quote from: Lostfang;7945842
The dude [meaning me, PBMC] just dropped Xor, all arguments are over.
[/spoiler]

22. The Complete Item Creation Handbook. Its a big effort using the handbook writer. Check it out.

23. The end of all "AntiMage" threads A true exercise in getting board members to reply to what the OP asks, not whatever they feel like. It seemed like my initial ideas for my homebrew class were on the right track. Once someone else offered to share theirs, I shared what I had alluded to.

24. The 3.5 Caster Classes Index Need to know every casting base class & PrC and their relative power? Voila.

25. Fair LA for DMG2 NPC Templates. Broken down into 1/3s. I hark the boards.

26. The Optimized Races Niche Compendium A current project. It's what it says on the tin.

27. The Save or Just Suck List A current project. It's what it says on the tin.

28. Thread Hi-jacking of What Should Be The Standard Book/Rule Set asked by David WL[spoiler]
I am remembered. It makes me happy enough to dump this. :D

There are several standards. The "legal" standard is whatever is legal. I should have given this info dump months ago but I never got around to making a thread for it, which I still might to:

What's Legal by categories of decreasing acceptability:
Core[spoiler]
PHB
DMG
MM[/spoiler]
Accessible for free
[spoiler]SRD
Web Enhancements (I count atleast 43 seperate, useful WotC pages)[/spoiler]
Generic 3.5 Supplements[spoiler]BoED
BoVD
CAd
CAr
CC
CD
      Ci
CM
CP
CS
CW
DM
DMC
DMG2
DotU
Dr
      Du
EE
ELH
EoE
EPH
FCI
FCII
FF
      Fr
HoB
HoH
LM
LoM
MH
MIC
MM2
MM3
MM4
MM5
MoI
PH2
RC
RoD
RoS
RotD
RotW
      Sa
      Sto
ToB
ToM
UA
WoL

Note: Several of the books from 'series.' If the series isn't listed consecutively, it is marked.[/spoiler]
Generic Unupdated 3.0 Supplements[spoiler]AEG
DD
DotF
EA
MotP
MotW
PlH
SBG
SF
SS
TB [/spoiler]
Adventure Specific[spoiler]AEoS
BoBS
BofFK
CoP
CotSQ
CTotW

DH
EH
EotLQ
EtCR
EttDP
EttRoG
EtU
FaT    (living greyhawk)
FLDG
FLFotD
FLHP
FLTFoR
FLtFR
FoF
FotY
FoW
GotEC

HoNS
LotIF
MotM
Mys
RHoD
RttToEE
SaS
SC
SGoS
SiD
SiS
SoG
SotHH
SotLW
SSL
StS
TT
VotGD
WotVB
[/spoiler]
Campaign Specific[spoiler]CoSW
CoR
CoV

DCS
DoE
DoF
Dra
ECS
FN
FP
FoE

FRCS
Gh
LEoF
LoD

MoE
MoF
Mon

OA
PGtE
PGtF
PoF

RoE
RoF
Sh
ShS
SK
SM

SoS
SoX

UE
Und
[/spoiler]
Licensed[spoiler]
Dragon Magazine issues 269-308 (3.0), 309-360 (3.5)
Dungeon Magazine issues 90-154?[/spoiler]
Licensed and Campaign Specific[spoiler]
AoM
BoK(R)

Diablo II Diablerie
Diablo II To Hell and Back
DoK
HOotS
KoD (simple adventure)
KOoA
LotT
RoA
SoS's (simple adventure)
ToHS
WotL

[/spoiler]


Not Legal:
Lapsed Liscenses and Campaign Specific[spoiler]
Kingdoms of Kalamar books
Ravenloft Campaign Setting books[/spoiler]
Never was legal (aka 3rd party)
[spoiler]Hyperconscious (actually good)
Book of Feats (example of laughable balance)
Homebrew (aka everything else. Even I made a base and prestige class. GitP has a few good ones)[/spoiler]


Arbitrary Campaign Coloring:
[spoiler]Rokugan (spelling?)
Manifest
Dragonlance
Eberron
Faerun[/spoiler]


My acronyms are WotC's (Magic of Faerun vs Monsters of Faerun) but longer for ease of looking up:
[spoiler]AEG   Arms and Equipment Guide
AEoS    Anauroch: The Empire of Shade
AoM   Age of Mortals
BoBS   Bastion of Broken Souls
BoED    Book of Exalted Deeds
BoK Bestiary of Kyrnn
BotFK    Barrow of the Forgotten King
BoVD    Book of Vile Darkness
CAd    Complete Adventurer
CAr    Complete Arcane
CC    Complete Champion
CD    Complete Divine
Ci    Cityscape
CM    Complete Mage
CTotW    Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave
CoP   City of Peril
CoR    Champions of Ruin
CoSW   City of Splendors: Waterdeep
CotSQ    City of the Spider Queen
CoV    Champions of Valor
CP    Complete Psionic
CS    Complete Scoundrel
CW    Complete Warrior
DCS    Dragonlance Campaign Setting
DD    Deities and Demigods
DH    Deep Horizon
DM    Dragon Magic
DMC   Dragon Magazine Compendium
DMG   Dungeon Master's Guide v.3.5
DMG2    Dungeon Master's Guide II
DoE    Dragons of Eberron
DoF    Dragons of Faerûn
DoK    Dragons of Krynn
DotF    Defenders of the Faith: A Guidebook to Clerics, Paladins
DotU    Drow of the Underdark
Dr    Draconomicon
Dra    Dragonmarked
Du    Dungeonscape
EA    Enemies and Allies
ECS    Eberron Campaign Setting
EE    Elder Evils
ELH   Epic Level Handbook
EoE    Exemplars of Evil
EofLQ    Eyes of the Lich Queen
EPH    Expanded Psionics Handbook
EtCR   Expedition to Castle Ravenloft
EttDP    Expedition to the Demonweb Pits
EttRoG    Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk
EtU    Expedition to Undermountain
FCI    Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss
FCII   Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells
FF    Fiend Folio
FLDG   Fantastic Locations: Dragondown Grotto
FLFoR    Fantastic Locations: Fields of Ruin
FLFotD    Fantastic Locations: Fane of the Drow
FLHP    Fantastic Locations: Hellspike Prison
FLtFR    Fantastic Locations: The Frostfell Rift
FN   Five Nations
FoE    Faiths of Eberron
FoF   Forge of Fury, The
FotY    Fortress of the Yuan-Ti
FoW    Forge of War, The
FP    Faiths & Pantheons
Fr    Frostburn
FRCS    Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
Gh    Ghostwalk
GotEC    Grasp of the Emerald Claw
HoB    Heroes of Battle
HoH    Heroes of Horror
HoNS    Heart of Nightfang Spire
HOotS    Holy Orders Of The Stars
KoD    Key Of Destiny
KOoA   Knightly Orders Of Ansalon.pdf
LEoF    Lost Empires of Faerûn
LM    Libris Mortis: The Book of the Dead
LoD    Lords of Darkness
LoM    Lords of Madness
LotIF    Lord of the Iron Fortress
LotT    Legends Of The Twins.pdf
MH    Miniatures Handbook
MIC    Magic Item Compendium
MM   Monster Manual v.3.5
MM2    Monster Manual II
MM3    Monster Manual III
MM4    Monster Manual IV
MM5    Monster Manual V
MoE    Magic of Eberron
MoF   Magic of Faerûn
MoI    Magic of Incarnum
Mon    Monster Compendium: Monsters of Faerûn
MotM   Mysteries of the Moonsea
MotP    Manual of the Planes
MotW    Masters of the Wild: Guidebook to Barbarians, Druids, Rangers
OA    Oriental Adventures
PGtE    Player's Guide to Eberron
PGtF    Player's Guide to Faerûn
PH2    Player's Handbook II
PHB   Player's Handbook v.3.5
PlH    Planar Handbook
PoF    Power of Faerûn
RC    Rules Compendium
RHoD    Red Hand of Doom
RoA    Races of Ansalon
RoD    Races of Destiny
RoE    Races of Eberron
RoF   Races of Faerûn
RoS    Races of Stone
RotD    Races of the Dragon
RotW    Races of the Wild
RttToEE   Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil
Sa    Sandstorm
SaS    Song and Silence: A Guidebook to Bards and Rogues
SBG   Stronghold Builder's Guidebook
SC    Sunless Citadel, The
SF    Sword and Fist: A Guidebook to Monks and Fighters
SGoS    The Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde
Sh    Sharn: City of Towers
ShS    Shining South
SiD    Speaker in Dreams, The
SiS    Sinister Spire, The
SK    Serpent Kingdoms
SM    Silver Marches
SoG    Sons of Gruumsh
SoS    Secrets of Sarlona
SoS's    Spectre Of Sorrows.pdf
SotHH   Scourge of the Howling Horde
SotLW   Shadows of the Last War
SoX    Secrets of Xen'drik
SS    Savage Species
SSL    Shadowdale: The Scouring of the Land
Sto    Stormwrack
StS    Standing Stone, The
TB    Tome and Blood: A Guidebook to Wizards and Sorcerers
ToB    Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords
ToHS   Towers Of High Sorcery.pdf
ToM    Tome of Magic
TT   The Twilight Tomb
UA    Unearthed Arcana
UE   Unapproachable East
Und    Underdark
VotGD    Voyage of the Golden Dragon
WoL   Weapons of Legacy
WotL   War Of The Lance.pdf
WotVB    Whispers of the Vampire's Blade[/spoiler]


Note: I have excluded books like Diablo II Campaign Setting that have no unique crunch unless they also had large adventures in them. Full listing here:
[spoiler]Book of Challenges: Dungeon Rooms, Puzzles, and Traps
Barrow of the Forgotten King
City of the Spider Queen
Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave
D&D Gazetteer
Deep Horizon
Enemies and Allies (good for laughing at default characters though)
Explorer's Handbook
Fantastic Locations: Dragondown Grotto
Fantastic Locations: Fane of the Drow
Fantastic Locations: Fields of Ruin
Fantastic Locations: The Frostfell Rift
Forge of Fury, The
Grasp of the Emerald Claw
Hero Builder's Guidebook
Heart of Nightfang Spire
Lord of the Iron Fortress
Mysteries of the Moonsea
Power of Faerûn
Red Hand of Doom
Stronghold Builder's Guidebook
Speaker in Dreams, The
Sons of Gruumsh
Shadows of the Last War
Standing Stone, The
Shadowdale: The Scouring of the Land
The Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde
Sunless Citadel, The
The Twilight Tomb
Voyage of the Golden Dragon
Whispers of the Vampire's Blade
Epic Insights Compilation
Fright at Tristor
Map Folio I
Living Greyhawk Gazetteer[/spoiler]




If I forgot any, let me know. I need a complete listing of the Dragonlance 2nd party books, as well as double-checking on simple adventure & coloring. Also what is the exact 3.0 to 3.5 break in Dungeon and Dragon magazines again?

Finally to make sure "Living" Greyhawk is the default, non-campaign specific setting, right?
[/spoiler]

29. The Ten Commandments of Homebrewing since I find myself doing more and more homebrew creations.

30. Useful Dungeon Magazine Finds

Lastly, some RAW pathos:
I always expected someone to half read it and claim something like
Quote
"a hellbred can cast spells with the evil descriptor and never gains negative levels while welding evil magic items"

Grab an unholy weapon and you're immune to negative levels. leet haxxors rolf rolf roflmao.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 11:52:25 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2008, 09:16:04 AM »
Build 1 [A Full CoDzilla for the evil, evil DM]

Why I created this monstrosity:
[spoiler]
Everyone says that a CoDzilla is by core the most powerful combination of base classes. Well, I noticed how powerful the idea was and  I snooped around for a solid CoDzilla build... and I found... NONE. That's right. Not one. I'm talking a fully fleshed out build not someone spamming "Cleric 1/Druid 19"

So then I decided to make my own... It soon got out of hand and became more an exercise in what could happen if a DM made a character that could contain a whole party.... 1v10 anyone? CoDzilla would love to! :twitch[/spoiler]

Disclaimer
[spoiler]
Keep in mind that most any sane DM would not allow this character, atleast not to these theoretical limits. Remember that a DM decides what magic items exist in his campaign world, world artifacts are available and how easily, when rolls occur, what item creation rules fly, what prestiges, templates, and books are okay to take. That being said, this is perfectly acceptable as the DM's secret weapon to a over-optimized party just ripe for a smack-down.[/spoiler]

The Build:
[spoiler]TN Azurin with an attitude and an ego as large as he can WS

City Brawler Lion Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 1 / Binder 2 / Azurin Cleric 1 / Death Delver 1 / Dread Necromancer 1 /  Death Master 1 / Holy, Raging Monk 1 / Mystic 1 / Cloistered Cleric 1 / Halruaan Elder 1 / Wildshaping Ranger 1 / Nature's Warrior 1 / Master of Many Forms 1 / Druidic Avenger 1 / Shadow Adept 1 / Rebuke Dragons Spontaneous Cleric 1 / x2. Hierophant is no longer needed thanks to the Communal Channel spell (Holy Order of the Stars 66).

Its a good thing the azurin cleric and cloistered cleric now have different mechanical abilities, otherwise these specifically would stack (UA p.48).[/spoiler]

The feats:
[spoiler]Halruaan Adept
*Defiance [Divine]
*Countermagic [Divine]
Hidden Talent
Item Familiar
Wild Cohort
Residual Metamagic
Proportionate Wild Shape
Retrieve Spell
Shadow Weave Magic
Imprint Stone [Item Creation]
Practiced Manifestor
Frozen Wild Shape
Dragon Wild Shape
Large and in Charge
Assume Supernatural Ability
Practical metamagic
Easy Metamagic (persist) [Drag Mag 325 p62]
Improved Binding
Spell Thematics
Extra Turning x10 (including undeath domains)
Combat reflexes, alertness, and endurance via items[/spoiler]

Reach or Occular spell (+2) to persist anything? [I am not sure if I would even allow this... mentioned for completeness]

Wildshape items for prereqs:
[spoiler]wildshape amulet from Magic of Faerun costs 40,000gp to allow you to Wild Shape as a 5th level druid
Skin of Kaletor gives +4 levels of WS
Mantle of the beast(18k)+ring of the beast(8k)=+1WS LEVEL ABILITIES which for this build happens to be MoMF, since none of the other classes are at a point where they have WS to be advanced :)

After levels and items: 16 WS Uses @ 14HD&hours [19 by RAW if you don't mind abusing the intent... I do so I put 14HD][/spoiler]


(Ab)Use of the variant deck of many things:
[Spoiler]It allows a character to rebuild levels (not a problem due to the 'buffer' level of barbarian at level 1), gain templates (which do not apply since class abilities rely on staying neutral - the neutral one can be temporarily gained by borrowing an item) and changing skill points and feats. Basically by drawing enough this character can set these things to exactly what he wants (except the few that are one way only and no longer apply).


Forcibly Retrainable feats
1) Barb 3 feats-> Persist, DMM(Persist), DMM(Extend)
5) Death domain -> undeath domain
8) Knowledge domain -> undeath domain
14) Abberant Blood, Inhuman Reach, Abberant Wild Shape LoM178
18) Imp Unarmed Strike -> Extra Turning

If the DM is going by the DMG, not the completes, prereq can be retrained:
Shadow Weave Magic, track, Halruaan Adept, Spell Thematics, Imprint Stone
-> possibly 5 more extra turnings = 180 or 160 more turns depending on the rules for Tenebrous[/spoiler]

What do you do with more DMM and turns than you can shake a stick at? Well since your the DM, allow a custom magic item that only works for CoDzilla and allows the user to cast a Caster Level 1 Miracle once per day. Caster level 1 I say? Yes indeed. Am I worried about dispel or a disjunction? Hell no. First of all we can circle magic like a bitch. But that's not good enough right? Exactly, which is where those extraneous [Divine] feats come in.

Normally pre-emptive counter-spellings are unreasonable; after all you have to ready an action, have either a countering spell ready (which is messy) or a dispel prepared and beat the opposed check. We'll save some turns (we can spare 50 easy). Thanks to Divine Defiance a turn allows us to NOT need to ready the dispelling action. Great, this way we can lay the smackdown during CoDzilla's turn without worrying about dispellings. But we don't have spell knowledge of dispel or greater dispel. Now look at Divine Countermagic which allows CoDzilla to not have to have any prepared as long was we spend turns = 1+level of the spell being countered. So this means that all CoDzilla has to do is make the spellcraft check to tell that a spell is being cast AT ALL which is easily within his Spellcraft check range. The only danger is a DMM cleric disjunctioning (silently and without somatic components) or an arcane caster who similiarly circle-magic'ed his greater dispel (also silent and without somatic components). If you are really worried about this strange possibility then just go with Twice-Betrayer of Shar and stop trying to CoDzilla.

Turn Use Calculations:
[Spoiler]
Atleast 10 Extra turning feats over 9 or 8 DMM'able pools gives 4*10*(9 or 8)+3(9 or 8)+(9 or 8)*(6 charisma modifier) -> 392 [plus 1 more every 5 rounds after buffing or counterspelling] or 441 turns. This is without any money for piddly extra turns like (capped) nightsticks or a reliquary symbol or any of the random weapons and wonderous items that grant turns. Also I don't use the Druid domains on UA 68 because they are essentially homebrew. Also Codzilla doesn't have druid2 spells on his own (for Bone Talisman) and obviosuly can't make a positive gain off of miracle-ing it or he would go infinite which would be bad  :banghead.

Quote from: If Tenebrous' uses are is usable once per 5 rounds
DMM Persistant    6
      - 1 (pracal metamagic)
      - 1 (easy metamaic)
      - 1 (Halruaan Elder)
      - 1 (every 5 rounds infinite Tenebrous turns)
      + 1 extend the persistant
      ---
        3
      + 2 (retrieve spell)
      + 9 (miracle is 9th level)
      ---
      14

The first casting DMMs costs 3turns
the next can residual metamagic the persist but from now on we add the retrieve spell cost -> 12
all the rest we residual metamagic (every other time) the retrieve for 3 then 14 then 3 then 14 then...

3+12+20*3+20*14+3=358 allows for 43 persisted spells if all are emulated from miracle
but since they are all extended they are in effect the next day. We do the same thing the next day so every 2 days we repeat the same regiment allowing 86 persistent spells on all the time.
This is the way most people play because it is probably the intent. But unfortunately its not RAW. Check out the simple question thread (um #1 I think) for the community agreeing with my realization that Tenebrous is only another regular turning pool.
Quote from: The slightly less cool calculations but RAW
DMM Persistant    6
      - 1 (pracal metamagic)
      - 1 (easy metamaic)
      - 1 (Halruaan Elder)
      + 1 extend the persistant
      ---
        4
      + 2 (retrieve spell)
      + 9 (miracle is 9th level)
      ---
      15

4+12+20*4+20*15+4=400 allows for 43 persisted spells, also with about 50 to spare for some massive counterspelling. See? Not that different huh?
[/Spoiler]

This is still not the max number of DMMable turns:
[Spoiler]In the above build, there is no xp penalty because Shaman 3 is the last level. Those druid-ish levels in the middle are for WS craziness on top of the ridiculously large amounts of buffs. The max pools are 14 (12 pre-epic): Cloistered Cleric (Master of Spiders alternate class feature aka drow cleric) 1,  Dread Necromancer 1, Death Master 1, Death Delver 1, Horned Harbinger 1, Ur-Priest 2, Azurin Cleric 1, Blackgaurd 3, Hierophant 1 (to give those yummy turns to CoDzilla), Mystic 1, Nomad Shaman 2, Shaman 3 and Shadow Adept 1 for the feats. If epic if your kind of thing you can Divine Mind 4 (Stygian path), Paladin of Tyranny 4, Holy Raging Monk 4, Nightstalker 4 (Races of Ansalon 153), although going evil means no Kender Nightstalker PrC via racial emultation Changeling, Wild Reaper Druid 12 if you want. For those who disagree with the drow cleric, please see the board's consensus about it here. Note that the prereqs are possible but are a pain I won't bore you with. This build works as a great cohort (with improved cohort of course). Charisma tinkering goes a long with for extra turns. Technically by dropping the hierophant level and abusing restoration and LA buyoff, the t'liz template (Drag 315 37) can score you another rebuke pool off your HD.

edit: Clerist Knight of the Sword 4 PrC 2nd sub level [KOoA68] might make going good about even in terms of pools, but I think it would be slower but you'd have to be LG...[/spoiler]

We can keep all these buffs up while Wildshaped into any small, medium, large, huge, or gargantuan (thanks to proportionate wild shape) humanoid, giant, aberration, dragon, or animal with less than 16HD. Oh and by the way that ability can be to any number of willing allies (as long as each one uses their given 15 hour Wildshape before the next). In order to get varying sizes for differently wildshaped allies you could throw up null psionics field and step in and out of it. Remove some turns and add Wizard 1 (for a familiar) and leadership for absolute craziness. Hell, you could slow down the turns even more and go extra wildshape to get enough uses make your followers Wildshaped. An army of dragons gargantuan dragons anyone?

And for the icing on the cake: Stack templates like no tomorrow and then buy them off at every opportunity to rack up feats and states. Continue to use the Alternate Deck of Many Things to dump most all your stats into con while leveling up for HPs that approach the 1000 mark... then swap it to cha for turns when you want to battle your PCs :)
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 10:45:19 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2008, 09:17:41 AM »
Build 2 [The Way-More-Than-Uber Centaur Charger]

What this build is:
[Spoiler]The most regular damage I have ever seen in conventional melee combat. No infinite damage loops, extra actions or marilith mind switching, no throwing planetoids. Just you and your weapon dealing enough damage to make your DM wince... The king of smack? Please. Tome of Battle craziness? Whatever. Frenzied Berserker eat your heart out.[/Spoiler]

General build ideas to check on first:
[Spoiler]Better when played with my ECL variation (not necessary, just take off the last four levels and adjust the damage or burn off 3 HD by negative levels). Please no complaints about RAW requirements for the riding skill and mounted combat feats because that's playing a freaking centaur (339 had an off topic debate on this and agreed with my position). If it really bugs you, and your aren't playing with Faerun material, there are feats to spare.

LG Dragonborn(wings aspect) Centaur with Plucky & Aggressive traits and a ritual of association to gain the orc subtype (+0LA, 2240xp, 56,000gold)
"Orc subtype," you say, "why bother?" This makes the centaur count as an orc [the SS entry merely used items as an example]. Since Every humanoid creature also has a subtype it is the subtype which distinguishes humanoids and makes them considered a separate race (which are usually pretty similar to humans). This ritual, though expensive, doesn't grant any orc abilities or that lovely strength stat improvement. Also the dragonborn template RAW makes even a monstrous humanoid also a humanoid ("dragonborn are humanoids with the dragonblood subtype" RotD 8 and "you retain your original type and subtypes" RotD 10), and since an orc is defined as a correctly sub-typed humanoid...

For TML, everything is better with a couple of bought-off levels in the savage progression ghost template, which allows the Deathsong ghost power (Monsters of Faerun 88) and Ring of Manifestation (Ghostwalk, 10k) to solve the incorporeal problem. Grab empower and extend supernatural ability from ToM73 if you want to have enough time to sneak up mind blanked thanks to legacy items while ethereal. Sing, then manifest into position during the surprise round and then charge normally after winning init.[/Spoiler]

Build Possibilities
[Spoiler]NG->LG Spirit Lion Totem, Dashing Step Whirling Frenzy Ex-Barbarian (who later gains the rage use back) 1 / Horseman Fighter 1 / Totemist 2 / Centaur Paladin 5 [RoA223] / Warshaper 1 [via one level of the werebear savage progression (applicable even aside from its specific exception via half-ogre template) without taking the explicitly option animal HD] / Cavalier 10
              If the warshaper PrC is gained before the paladin levels via a warchanter and some level-drained temporary levels so it doesn't mess up the LA buyback, this character could theoretically continue as a paladin in epic, showing that it has stayed true to the paladin ideals.[/Spoiler]

Feats + Nimble Charger Skill Trick
[Spoiler]7 by HD, 2 flaws, a custom Major Bloodline gives 10 and a weapon and armor of legacy gives 6

[Mounted Combat for FREE] (explicitly RAW in Races of Faerun as well)
Expeditious Dodge
Hidden Talent(expansion)
Battle Jump
Skewer Foe
Leap Attack (only 11 ranks needed to fulfill the jump check)
Greater 2 Weapon Fighting
Power Lunge
Brand of the Nine Hells
Mark of Minauros (drop the devil requirement from the feat which is explicitly allowed in the text, the rest is fluff)
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Spirited Charge
Headlong Rush [after the ritual allowing us to qualify as 'orc,' check out CS152 for an example]
Overchannel
*Improved Buckler Defense
*Quick Reconnoiter
*Item Familiar
*Parrying Shield
*Improved Toughness
Monkey Grip [FAQ51 only rules out powerful build with this]
Open Lesser Chakra (shoulder), remembering Split Chakra (shoulder) if needed
2 Weapon Fighting (free via ranger in alternate build)
Practiced Manifester
Mounted Prowess
Death From Above
Mounted Fighting
Run [Via werebear level]
Mourning Mutate (DragMag359 109) = +3spot xor listen [If going for them tentacles]

* are feats for unnecessary xp, AC, or hp.

Furthermore the following feats are gained through items: Improved Initiative, Ride-by-Attack, Mobility, Improved Two Weapon fighting, Endurance, Diehard, Deflect Arrows, and Improved Natural Attack for the graft weapon'd (yay psychic chirgery) lances through the manifester enhancement.

It is the mark of minorous feat that insures the to-hit glaring weakness in the build. Otherwise... stack on The quite sub-optimal Mounted Prowess, Death from above, Furious Charge, Oversized 2 Weapon Fighting,
Reckless offense, & Mounted Fighting feats[/Spoiler]

His HP should be through the roof, as could easily his AC, but that is really not necessary considering he will almost always go first. By conventional means (no island in time or celerity BS) an initiative of 12+dex mod+d20 (rerolled every time) is quite decent. Swap in Lunatic insight, Gifted General, Fire Heritage, and Guerrilla Scout or look into casting boosts if you REALLY want to go first.

Once this character should go first, we should make sure it can hit whatever it can gets close to. The mark of minauros gives +2 to hit for ever 10' charged. The centaur moves at 50base+10celerity+(10+10)if going the favored enemy route. Charges are quadruple movement speed since the cavalier allows a burst of speed (always mounted) and the save won't fail. This build can easily get to over 300' with up to dex mod turns (thanks to that horseman fighter level) is enough to get to about anything. Rough terrain? I'm floating thanks to some nifty horseshoes so running over water, or pebbles or lava, etc will not be a problem. That gives BaB+str+MSx(4/5) as my to hit. Even if only going 240 before attacking that's still +48 to hit from the feat alone. If you really want to pump up the total hit, hitting 150 touch AC wouldn't take too much modifying for the build. And thanks to one of the lances it can cleave all along that path during ride-by-attack (though with varying to hit amounts).

Pre Calculation Info
[Spoiler]Okay... so finally here is the damage (15' reach after expansion, lance as a reach weapon makes this 30')
Keep in mind this uses multiple arms and graft weapon abuse to significantly up the weapons' base damage.

Handedness: 2weapon lance -> 1 handed due to mounted, 2 Weapon fighting at a decently high attack penalty, extra hands for 2-handing the now 1-handedly grafted lances (thanks to some chirurgery)

BASE: Knights lance 1d10-> 2d8large, 3d8huge (balanced A&E 96 enhancement via necklace of natural weapons if it looks expensive), 4d8gargantuan (strongarm bracers), 6d8collosal (expansion @Huge size), 8d8collosal+(expansion augmented @Gargantuan size), 12d8 platinum material [MoF 180], 16d8 Improved Natural Attack (grafted weapon) via Fanged Ring, 24d8 Warshaper 1, 32d8 Girallon arms chakra bind, 48d8 Totem Avatar chakra bind, 64d8 Monkey Grip, 96d8 Arms of the Naga [SS55] & swapped preferably DMM'd: 128d8 Arms of Plenty [LoM209] (with 42k Gloves of Man), 192d8 Sharptooth [SC187], and Earth Hammer [RoS162] via wand (temporarily negates the platinum material for its own boost but allows) + Mighty Wallop [RotD114] 256d8, Girallon's Blessing [SpC106] 384d8, Battlearms [DragMag356 48] 512d8, 768d8, Touchstone(Sunken City of Pazar) 1024d8.

[edit for if you feel like blowing some 420k more for gloves of man and getting all tentacley]Getting 1 tale from the Dragon Tail feat after draconic template (this would still be buy-off able via level draining)
Gaining tentacles:
4 chirurgery in a form of doom (getting 11pp is a bit expensive)
4 Illithid Grapplex4 (Illithid Heritage)
2 Deepspawn(Mourning mutate counts for aberration blood)
2 evard's menacing tentacles (wiz3), persistable
4 fearsome grapple (cl=9, wiz2, persistable)
4 flaying tendrils (wiz5, persistable)
Gives us 10 glove of man'd appendages for each lance and an extra one for the dominant hand. This would make use look very ugly (so ugly you should just go invisible) and be more vulnerable to dispelling but would increase the base lance possible size by quite a lot. 1024d8 -> 1536d8 ->  2048d8 -> 3072d8 -> 4096d8 -> 6144d8 -> 8192d8 -> 12288d8 -> 16384d8 -> 24576d8  (left) -> 32768d8 (right)
Now before you go too much further remember that only things already able to wield weapons (like the prehensile tail feat) don't need the gloves or things able to hold things (arms, tails, tentacles) can use them. Legs, hooves, etc can't use the gloves. So there is still a semi-reasonable limit.

EDIT: If fighting one aligment consistently Zealot Pact [CD191] gives another boost. Pay for it if need be. Its permanent until triggered.

Multiplicable Damage: str mod x1 or x3 (off-hand at one or main hand at three thanks to power Lunge), BABx3or4 (1 regular, 2 power attack, 3 leap attack, 4 if favored enemy), +4or2or1 (if favored enemy), +5 enhancement, +1competance (cavilier) + 1glory (lance banner)

MULTIPLIERS: x1 regularly, x2 mounted lance, x4 Righteous Charge (paladin sub), x5 spirited charge, x6 valorous enhancement, x7 battle jump, x8 Headlong Rush (see the next section on weapon shenanigans), x9 deadly charge, x10 unstoppable charge, x11 dive attack, x13 deathsong, x15 Zealot Pact

CRITICALS: 20 regular, 19/20 Threat from keen scabbards at x3 -> x4 (thanks to riding boots)

Additional damage: cumulative +1d6 for each successful hit after the first, +5 from feats, +2d6 from rhino hide.

The non-hinder build's Bab maxes at 20 and has a strength of 56 (18base+8racial+6enhance+5inherent+5leveling+14templates+4warshaper for variant). The templates (which can be fully bought off after the racial LA) are dustform, incarnate construct, half-giant, lycanthrope, and mineral warrior. With this last bit of information, and remembering the skewer foe amount changes with each iteration (atleast this is what is intended, otherwise the feat makes no sense).[/spoiler]

Cheddary weapon multiplier increases
[spoiler]By reverse engineering the halberd of vaulting and the many-fanged dagger, you could get crafted two +1 lances that deal, unmounted, x4 damage normally or x5 on jumping charge. Only 1 lance would need the most expensive lance of unending charge's ability and one of the vaulting jump bonuses should be nerfed to a (stacking) competence bonus.
    Alternate source spell allows the paladin spells to count as arcane spells for a reverse engineered Runestaff of Power (MIC181). The psuedo-smite x2 multiplier ability costs anywhere from 1-7.6k (look at the rod of evocation for comparison). Not included in the damage calculations due to the sketchiness of (even post errata) runestaves.
    I include the vaulting but not the many-fanged dagger for two reasons. Firstly the vaulting only works on chargers. Secondly the many-fanged dagger works for everyone, even ghost telekenesis-abusing casters. Yuck. I'll stick to the charger-only stuff and simply wallow in the wonderful wording of the halberd of vaulting rather than trying the reverse-engineered cheese.
    I also didn't use restoration + LA buyoff cheese to grab the obah-blessed template (Dungeon Magazine136 p61). It would add four arms for x2 base weapon damage. Yeah.[/spoiler]

Damage Calculations
[spoiler]Without things like SA or Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip's 20d6 (not worth the swift action) or other petty additions not flavorful, these calculations are per full round action. Feel free to action economy abuse via greater celerity, belt of battle, white raven tactics, etc all you want. It's a shame Time Stands Still doesn't help as much as you might think.

[(Multiplicable damage) x multiplier + additional damage ] * number of main-handed iterations +
[(Multiplicable damage) x multiplier + additional damage ] * number of off-handed iterations +
(the skewer foe totals for both hands)
->
[(16384d8+3x23+20*3+5+3+5)x15 + 4d6+2d6] *9 = ,-, (this includes whirling frenzy, raging mongoose maneuver*, flashing sun maneuver, and haste/speed weapon/bracers*)
[(12288d8+1x23+20*3+5+3+5)x15 + 4d6+2d6] *6 =    ,-, (this includes raging mongoose*, and bracers*)
(0d6+2d6+4d6+6d6+4d6+5d6+6d6+7d6+8d6) =      - ,
                                                                  ===========
                                                                  ,-,

A normal MINIMUM of over 22.5k damage is no small achievement... but take a look at the best possible scenario with all crits and on a favored enemy arcane caster:

[(16384d8+3x23+20*3+5+1+1)x11 + 4d6+2d6] *9 = ,-, (this includes Whirling Frenzy, flashing sun, *raging mongoose, and *bracers*)
[(12288d8+1x23+20*3+5+1+1)x11 + 4d6+2d6] *6 =    ,-, (this includes Whirling Frenzy, *raging mongoose, and *bracers*)
(0d6+2d6+4d6+6d6+8d6+10d6+12d6+7d6+8d6) =      - ,
                                                                  ===========
                                                                  ,-,

So the absolute minimum to the absolute maximum is this: _______
*Note on bracers this assumes the bracers of blinding strike ability as base and strongarm bracer ability tacked on for a hefty price. Though legal, its cheesy. It would also be nice if the bracers stacked with haste, but RAI is clear that it shouldn't.
*Note* Raging Mongoose can be gotten by a master tiger claw bracers for 45k after martial studying sudden leap, wolf fang strike, & blood in the water. Doing magical locations can offer the needed feats depending on what suites your flavor.[/spoiler]

Final note: This is no where near fully optimized. Technically by blowing you WBL on using multiple lances for the extra arms you will end up with more damage because of the precision damage, etc. Also strength can still be pumped sky high by buffs, grafts, etc. I didn't do that here (mainly) and I have actually played a very similar build to this in a campaign and its not game-breaking... at level 9. However after reaching level 12 you should not be trusted against anything that cannot fly or swim VERY far away because your WBL allows you to include enough of the build to one turn simply hit and kill in anything in normal circumstances. The flying part can be solved by replacing a swordsage dip at the end and grabbing the Searing Charge maneuver.

That said there are ways to stop this build through rather strange circumstances. Boots of the Battle Charger's abilities can be tacked on to charge through allies. But what about Water or Underdark campaigns? Tiny Tunnels that you can only move half or less speed through mean no charging :) There are ways to overcome each of these obstacles but it devolves into your level of paranoia.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 09:58:42 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2008, 09:23:18 AM »
Build 3 [The Way-More-Than-Super-Mount Aquatic Half-celestial]

This build has been redone twice, with the final version posted at GitP (the link is above)
[spoiler]NG Strongheart Halfling with Aquatic template

The Advancement
[Spoiler]UA Ranger 1 / Druid 3 / UA Wizard 1 / Windrider 1 / Waverider 1 / Halfling Outrider 1-6 / Dragon Rider 1 / Halfling Outrider 7-10 / Arcane Heirophant 1 / Fleshwarper 1

[Note Bloodlines help absolutely no aspect of this build because none of it has no true calculations, only continued epic advancements and charts. And yes I know there is no Beast Master; at this point a size increase is way cooler than 2 more HD, swap it in if you want]

Warning: the build unfortunately requires some swapped divine power around 6th level. This is not to hard to overcome and is only a temporary hurdle.[/Spoiler]

Feats
[Spoiler]These slightly out of order (this build has flaws and a legacy weapon): Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery (as the variant wizard's fighter feat), Eschew Materials, Natural Bond, Bonded Familiar, Theurgic Bond, Flesh Grafter (Silthilar), Holy Mount, Winter's Mount, Sanctum Spell [for the arcane heirophant prereq], Devoted Tracker, Theurgic Mount, Dragon Steed

Have your dragon take the Dutiful Guardian & Constant Guardian feats :)[/Spoiler]

The HD boosts
[Spoiler]Animal Companion Boosts
Base Classes = 3
Halfling Outrider=15
natural bond = 3
Hierophant = 1
Theurgic Bond = 3
---------------------
25
&
Mount Class Boosts:
Wave Runner = 20
-20 Full Dragon Mount (check out the draconomicon if you don't believe me)
Halfling Outrider = 10
Holy Mount = 6
Theurgic Mount = 3
---------------------
19

The Dragon Rider allows a dragon cohort my ECL+3. So the HD boosts are on top of a creature of 23 base Hit Dice.[/Spoiler]

Total Class Advancements to the Mount
[Spoiler]Wave Runner (19)   +8HD, +6Nat, +6Str
Windrider         +2HD, +4Nat, +2Str
Dragon Rider      +2HD, +2Nat, +1Str
Animal Comp (24)      +18HD, +18Nat, +9Str, +3Dex, 10 Tricks
   ---------------------
            +30HD, +30Nat, +18Str, +3Dex, 10 Tricks
      for a total of 53HD, a dozen more than a non-advanced Gold Dragon

or if epic dragons are okay: HD23 Wrymling Prismatic Dragon with enough HD to be a Colossal Mature Adult[/spoiler]

The Heading into Interpretation Territory

Step by step how we get our dragon mount-cohort-familiar companion
[Spoiler]Lost? Okay, we started with a random familiar (lets say a classic rat) and animal companion (classic dog). Then we may ride a whatever (preferably flying) thing [a griffin is fine temporarily] for windrider, but really don't have to since we will swap it out later. Next we get an aquatic special mount, a normal hippocampus. This brings us to 4 special critter categories.

The Dragon feat would replace our hippocampus with a dragonnel, which is not aquatic. This would be a problem so before you take the feat go ahead and let the hippocamus die since the swapping of mounts might activate the year and a day wait anyways. By a mean DM it means we simply won't have a mount for a while (dragonnel or otherwise). That is fine since our goal is to use that gold dragon again after he's grown up a bit and we have a high enough effective special mount level to use a gold dragon as our waverider mount.

But can we do that? Yes because 1) our mount is a dragon and 2) it has to be aquatic. When we look up the subtype in the SRD it says an aquatic creature is one that breathes water and has a swim speed (Yup that sounds aquatic to me!). So when we look on the Draconomicon's chart the only dragon like for a LG paladin-ish character (as opposed to a evil blackgaurd-ish one) is a gold dragon.

So eventually we will have a gold dragon as our windrider and waverider special mount, which brings us down to 3 critters since we won't get that hippocamus back. Then we take the devoted tracker feat which makes the special mount count as the animal companion. Though we are still waiting on our a aquatic dragon mount we can ditch our animal companion bringing us to 2 critters.

In between the halflingling outrider level we take a level of Dragon Rider we can have a dragon cohort that is older (this puts the max strain on a paladin's mount level). We ride it and replace the griffon or whatever with the older gold dragon. We also choose that as our aquatic mount+animal companion when the wait time is up.

After the arcane heirophant level we ditch the familiar and make aquatic 'wind ridden' dragon cohort mount that is a companion to be our companion familiar. After a level of fleshwarper the HD stackage is complete and the massive HD boosts use the advancing dragons rules to put our gold dragon cohort mount to colossal size. Since it has 53HD, by the advanced dragon rules that means it becomes Colossal+. Fleshwarper then uses its class ability to bump this up permanently to larger than the largest possible size: Colossal++?[/Spoiler]

What do we end up with?
[Spoiler]The SRD gives us a:
Great, Great Super-Duper Uber Wrym Gold Dragon (+28 Base Saves)
nat 53
Colossal+
32d10 Fire cone (reflex) or 16 Str Drain (fort) 51DC
SR41 (~19)
300' fly
Str53, con41, int&cha40, Wis41 (-4 it appears), still dex=10
Caster level 41
DR now epic (not down 5 to get that though, right?)
Frightful presence 49 like other advances? Maybe not  :(

**Also be sure to have your dragon take the Wyrm of War option (DoE31). It loses access to Cleric Domains but gains a fighter or draconic bonus feat for every 4 Hit Die he possesses! It also gains proficiency with all simple and martial weapons and all armor.[/spoiler]

Note: some people do not consider the familiar companion to gain this ability due to a technicality of trying to decide want counts as a "familiar"... I say a 'familiar' 'companion' is a type of familiar which allows the fleshwarper targeting but I understand if your DM says "eh" to that. In that case bust out a larger monstrosity on him by reworking the fleshwarper level and going beastmaster for a [drum roll] 55 HD Colossal sized mount. Unfortunately this path has no Colossal+ size so I think of it as subpar.[/spoiler]

Quote from: PlzBreakMyCmpAn's 4th version
Interpretation Warnings:[spoiler]
   This build uses the interpretation that the Special Mount ability and a paladin's mount are interchangeable. The rationale is that because no other class in core has a special mount besides the paladin class, anay abilities/feats/items,etc mentioning special mounts are in fact referencing all paladin-like Special Mount abilities.

   It also uses the interpretation that non-LG paladin-like special mount classes (including Paladin of Freedom, Tyranny, etc) should select appropriately aligned dragon mounts, instead of "only a lawful good dragon should be allowed to serve as a paladin's special mount" (Drac 139).

   It is clear from Table 3-13 that mounts may gain age categories in lieu of HD and from the advanced dragons rules that age categories depend on HD whilst time is the usual corollary.  I am also going with the conservative estimates on an advanced dragon mounts stats, since I would think the statistics for a great wyrm however are not bonuses.

   I also do not play semantics about abilities as class features versus abilities as well I don't know what. Basically abilities that are only available as class features in core are refered to as "the class feature X" or "X class feature" for prerequisites in order to help the player know where to find these abilities. This is basically the same logical as the Special Mount part above.

   These are more than reasonable interpretations, I trust. If you disagree, please do not post your reasons as I do not want to derail the thread. I will be more than happy to respond to these by PM and update the opening post if necessary.[/spoiler]

Cheese Warning:[spoiler]
   This build makes heavy use of my Prestige Class Prerequisite Handbook and assumes a 'helping' character to make this build possible with no base classes. The character should be a CG warforged x / Warchanter 10 / Heartfire Fanner 1 / x with Words of Creation who follows the character around until just after level 5. After this point the build is self-sufficient. For extra cheese this character could know psychic reformation and save you some money, but my build has assumed this isn't the case. Note that this slipping, Belkar-like character shouldn't do anything very evil in the presence of his helper.

   Oh yea I also assume I don't lose benefits from Animal lord by changing alignment on 1 axis. I don't put this under interpretations because we all know penalizing character evolution is not cool, but abuse it is cheesy. I just would think keeping the PrC's benefits is acceptable cheese.[/spoiler]

The Build:[spoiler] CN->CE LA bought off Amphibious Draconic Celestial Spiritfolk (bamboo) with a custom Major Bloodline similar to demon or titan

Animal Lord (Bear) 1 / Waverider 1 / Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Baphomet 1 / Beast Master 1 / Arcane Heirophant 10 / Legacy Champion 6[/spoiler]

First 5 levels extremely cramped feats (assumes WBL):[spoiler]
1) Magical Training, Endurance (flaw), Skill Knowledge[Handle Animal&Intimidate->Knowledge(Arcana)*] (flaw)
1) Enter 2 Pacts Insidious for Precocious Apprentice & Mounted Combat
1) Serving an Elder Evil gives a vile feat -> Mounted Archery {@ level 2}

1-3, but HD3 feat) Skill Focus (Handle Animal) from Inspire Greatness HD

2) Power Attack Bloodline Feat
{2} Become Necropolitan right before 3 then Psychic Reformation a moderate taint feat 1 into Great Fortitude by paying a Psion 14 for a manifesting and some PP
{2} Psychic Reformation a severe taint feat 2 into Improved Bullrush

3) Thrall to Demon
{3} The Frog God's Fane location Skill Focus feat -> Skill Focus (Handle Animal) [removed for possible TO]

4) Eschew Materials Bloodline Feat
{4} Ritual of Prophecy's Dragon Prophecier feat -> Santuary Spell

{5} Otyugh's Hole's locations' Ironwill feat -> Practiced Caster
{5}  Elder Evil vile feat -> Obtain Familiar

{}= use one of three ML1 Psychic Reformations from one of two ML1 Soul Crystals from a twice-paid Psion 14 (70+40*4gp each)

*Just before taking the level of Arcane Hierophant this character will Psychic Reformation the skill knowledge feat to work with Knowledge Arcana instead of Intimidate.

Note that Bamboo Spiritfolk cast speak with animals as a divine spell (the default is druid in this case) which is bumped by santuary spell. Unfortunately the divine casting for Arcane Hierophant advances nothing and the arcane casting only adds for familiar levels via the obtain familiar feat.[/spoiler]

The rest of the feats in no particular order:[spoiler]
6 Theurgic Mount
9 Theurgic Bond
{10} Natural Bond (buy a Psychic Reformation even without Soul Crystal)
12 Dragon Steed
15 Holy Mount
{15} Devoted Tracker
18 Winter's Mount (the +2con is already added to the stats below)
{20} any

Note: When the helper character ditches, bump each feat up so Winter's Mount is the level 20 reformatted feat and take Skill Focus (Handle Animal) as your current feat.[/spoiler]

Why each class level is optimal:[spoiler]
0-1 The animal lord buffs Effect Druid Level if you have an animal companion (later) and can be entered at ECL1 (this is very, very hard!)

1-2 Waverider advances an aqautic( = must have swim speed and breathe water) Special Mount by ECL not by class level

2-3 Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Baphomet gives a unique, fiendish animal companion with effective druid level doubled
   Note: animal lord and natural bond don't advance the animal companion-giving class, they seperately advance effective druid level - great for rangers, not as good for us.

3-4 Beast Master gives a unique, hefty animal companion buff to our animal companion giving class

4 -14 Arcane Heirophant gives divine and arcane bumps to our Special mount thanks to Holy Mount and Theurgic Mount, gives familiar bonuses which we double dip on our animal companion thanks to the wording of Obtain Familiar combined with Theurgic Bond, and full advances our animal companion-granting class which is doubled because of Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Baphomet. Whoa

14 - 20 Legacy Champion continues 5 more shadow levels of Arcane Hierophant[/spoiler]

Critter tracking, or you got a 99HD dragon how?:[spoiler]
First the silly animal lord animal thing is opted out of / goes away upon gaining our animal companion

Second our normal-ish aquatic animal companion can die / get rechosen into a dragonel thanks to the Dragon Steed feat. Then once we have enough mount boosts use the Special Mount rules to gain a Young then Juvenile Black dragon as per DracoNOMicon's Table 3-17 (since we are CE, not LG)


We gain a familiar via the Obtain Familiar feat. Since we count as a Wizard 1 from Magical Training we then advance the caster level necessary for the feat through Practiced caster. Our familiar level bumps are based on the sum of our arcane caster level, which gets adding into our animal companion bumps thanks to Theurgic Bond.

   Note: I assume that this feat stack twice by first taking the feat for a Familiar/Animal Companion by dumping all the bonuses from the Animal Companion/Familiar into the Familiar/Animal Companion and then get them back again on the Animal Companion/Familiar upon retaking the feat with the Animal Companion/Familiar in mind. It cries unnamed bonus foul. See? I really do take the reasonable interpretation...


Upon taking Arcane Heirophant levels we ditch our Familiar to give its bump gains apply to our Animal Companion. Pretty standard.

Then upon taking the devoted tracker feat we ditch our Animal Companion to give its bump gains apply to our Special Mount. "The mount gains all the benefits of being both your special mount and your animal companion." Since being my animal companion also gave it those lovely familiar bonuses, those carry over too. Pretty standard. Except remember that special mount is a dragon :smallbiggrin:[/spoiler]

Total stats of the still aquatic black dragon Special Mount counting as Animal Companion with heavy Familiar bonuses:[spoiler]
Arcane Hierophant Gains including Legacy Weapon bumps
15*2+(4+1)*2 AC via familiar from casting
15*2 AC via straight familiar
15*2+3*1 straight AC
15+15mount via feats

Animal Lord = 1*1 AC
demoNOMicon of Iggwilv: Baphomet = 1*2 AC
Waverider = 20 mount (calculated by ECL)
Beast Master = 4*2 AC
3*2 AC from major bloodline


AC = 40+30+33+11 = 120 -> +70HD, +70nat, +35str, +35dex, 36bonus tricks

mount = -17+30 = +13 -> +6HD, +6nat, +3str, above ECL20WR (-17 for black juvenile dragon as mount)

Waverider = +10HD, +8Nat, +7Str

45th level familiar gains = +22nat, 15+12int, 50SR, familiar spell feat
----
+86HD, +119nat, +45Str, +35Dex, 36bonus tricks[/spoiler]

What does this make our beefed up dragon look like?:[spoiler]
Black dragon juvenile:13HD requires 24hd to be great wyrm (62/3->20 age categories)

20 x Advanced Colossal++ Great wyrm Black dragon 99d12+(643+*99hp) with 15/epic DR and 11 bonus improved spell capacity's

120Str, 45dex, 69con, 47int, 41wis, 40cha, +99BAB/+170Grapple, +154Attack, +80Fort, +68Refl, +66Will, 64d4BW (DC88), 74Fightful Presence

70'land, fly 300'(clumsy), swim 60' +17initiative, 223 201AC (-8 size, +217 195 natural, +17dex), touch 19, flat-footed 206 184, CL 55th, 90SR

   Note: I did remember the familiar 50SR, and 27int and +10'. The up to great wyrm additions don't stack for me because I am (again) taking the conservative position, but the advanced bonuses after that do add to this from the familiar gains.

Animal Companion special qualities:Link (unneeded), share spells, Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack, Improved evasion.

Special Mount: Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, share saving throws (uneeded), speak with animals of its kind (uneeded), Fast Movement, Spell Resistance (not as good as familiar's).

Familiar special qualities: Alertness, improved evasion (already has), share spells (already has), empathic link (already has), Deliver touch spells, speak with master & animals of its kind (already has), Spell resistance (stackage mentioned), Scry on familiar.

Adding the Wyrm of War sovereign archetype (DoE32) gives twenty-four bonus fighter or draconic-ability-related feats[/spoiler]

Final "You missed one!" note:[spoiler]
   Sadly in order to maximize HD, I did not include either the mildly questionable but totally awesome fleshgrafter PrC to perhaps gain Colossal++ size

   I also know that I did not make the dragon my Cohort so it counts as a "Cohort Aquatic Special Mount Familiar Companion 1337 Rofl Rofl" build through use of the Dragonrider PrC (Dragonlance campaign Setting). Sorry.

   Finally I have now 4 versions of this build. The one I haven't mentioned anything about so far was a slightly less HD version which tried Windrider, Dragonrider, Ranger Knight, and Uncanny Tricksterx3 instead of Legacy Champion. Neither that nor Prestigious Paladin were optimal.[/spoiler]


Finally if this offends your sense of decency (whilst it should - it has nearly sold its soul and serves an elder evil!) be nice. I revised this a few times and I might have missed something that I did not mention. The parts I did mention (mechanically, the numbers might be off) I trust are correct.
Worshiping Azor'alq with the mounted feat allows the Sacred Steed feat (Dun Mag 104 108) for +1 Special Mount level, but it doesn't make a difference in the above build.

Please note that the absurdly overpowered zhentanim skymage is not used for this class. With a cohort for heavy DMM-swapped buffs, its possible to get a slightly higher base HD mount but requires some prereq shenanigans (see my handbook on that) and feels wrong. I like the whole "I have one big pet" feel. Finally the real strength of this build is that ZS's can only have set number of 'replacement' mounts if theirs dies. Yes you can cheese out 10 but its still a yucky limitation true animal companions don't have.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 02:10:11 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2008, 09:24:30 AM »
Build 4 [The Elusive Triple 9's (9th level Wizard+Cleric+Psion abilities)]

After much deliberation I finally built a non-rebuilding 999s build. But this isn't just any tripple nines. This is a cleric-wizard-psion list one - aka the big kahuna. Yeah, the only one everyone cares about. There are much weaker "ardent-language abuse" 999's that don't require cheese. Also keep in mind that depending on your position on requirements checking, it might be possible to do this much, much easier. However I think I speak for most players when they would (for whatever reason) more or less follow the Stump the Sage ruling of 'rebuilding can't be used to get something not otherwise possible.'

Build Details
[Spoiler]Psion 1, Beholder Mage 1, Cerebremancer 9, Ur-Priest, Psychic Theurge 8

You will want to be a quinamentin. You will not want that pesky 2HD. So before you take your first class level simply grab a negative level (fail the save so that the HD loss is permanent). Then take the psion 1 level (you may swap your 1 humanoid HD for this level). Then continue to buyoff the LA. Or you could just be any humanoid and be reincarnated into one (improbable, but possible).

Psychic Theurge can be found here and Cerebremancer can be found here [/Spoiler]

Cheesiness Warning (aka requires some good circumstances)
[Spoiler]Legend: Most Cheesy/Most CO, Least Cheesy/Hurts the most
I'll even say the least cheesy is the one I think of, and what I could see actually being used

0. Everyone knows evil does it better but with a bit of cheese you can be of any alignment. Rather than devote yourself to an Elder Evil you could just borrow an Aquamarine of Spell Extending and then soak up a metamagic storm. While the auqamarine requires forbids an interpretational move (the 'benefit' language is unclear, and sometimes I go against the RAW in games to make only 'benefit' items not be allowed for pre-reqs), the metamagic storm could seem a bit TO.
1. It uses either a slightly unkosher purposely gained permanent negative level (available by many methods) or if your DM wants you to actually pay for it you could just be in debt for a reincarnate.
2. Uses the RAW but unnerving Divine Minion template for the Wild Shape ability or if you could just burrow (read have access earlier than can be bought) a Wildshape Amulet, Skin of Kaletor, Mantle of the beast, and ring of the beast and though its a bit steep we can easily later pay it back many, many times [Note the WS route uses the Bloodline level after an arbitrary class level which is sucked away by a permanent level].
3. This build needs one of three options. A) a party member who is four levels up B) a friendly enough NPC to manifest chirurgery with payment later or C) A buy non-standard power stone with psychic chirurgery at manifestor level 1 or 2 (again possible, but strange). Keep in mind this is only for a temporary prereq and in no way effects the end of the build. If the chirurgery were to be undone after level 4, it wouldn't make a difference

All in all these specific circumstances are not unreasonable.[/Spoiler]

The Full Feat Breakdown
[Spoiler]1 aberrant blood, flaw=aberrant wild shape, flaw=Proportionate Wild Shape

psion1=overchannel
2[Absolutely any major bloodline -> Psychic Reformation] assume supernatural ability (Antimagic Cone)
 *   Borrow Aquamarine of Spell Extending (3.7k) to get a metamagic feat
 *   Soak up a metamagic storm for Sanctum spell
 *   Borrow a Torc of Power Preservation to manifest (with overchannel) 2nd level powers at level 2
OR:   Serve an elder evil and Psychic Reformation in Practiced manifester rather than burrowing the Torc
   Become Necropolitan (possible late in the second level)
   Grab Moderate and then severe taint, both of which give a reformable feats that you can pay for at the next level
3 assume supernatural ability (eye rays)
6 iron will
9 malign spell focus
12 x [practiced manifestor seems unneeded]
15 x [can practiced spellcaster even apply? I'm lazy by now]
18 x [practiced spellcaster again?][/Spoiler]

Level Summary
[Spoiler]   Negative level absorbtion or Reincarnate (druid 4 spell with cost of 1280)
Psion 1
   Borrow a Wildshape Amulet or take the 1 LA from the Divine Minion Template  :hide
Beholder Mage 1

Then mix and match a few of the following:
   Borrow a Torc of Power Preservation or take the practiced manifestor feat
   Take the versatile spellcaster feat or if going the sanctum spell route Borrow an aquamarine of spell extending or take the feat then soak up a metamagic storm
   Take the Skill Knowledge feat (UA81) or be much smarter than me so you can find a way get the educated feat (requires level 1) in this build (note that if you start a different race, an 'other' reinc removes bonus feats)

   That last one atleast, requires one of these. I will listed in order of cheese):
   Be non-evil and summon a Demon (450gp for an NPC casting) and offer to do enough evil (cast 4 evil spells is enough) to get a feat. This can be done twice
or:    Be CE + devoted to an Elder evil for a feat that will need reformating.
or:    Become necropolitan, gain moderate and servere taint, and get Psychic Reformations (they cost 485gp +25xp)

   psychic chirurgery twice (13060gp, 2000xp) for 2nd level powers
   Bloodline level here to allow skill pre-reqs thanks to Skill Knowledge

Cerebremancer 9
Ur-Priest 1
Psychic Theurge 8[/Spoiler]

Adding any Martial Maneuvers, any Incarnum Chakras, up to 4th Level Bindings, and 2nd level True-Naming!
[Spoiler]What? You are greedy for more? Okay, you little munchkin, hold on to your butt. First, take out that extraneous Ceremancer level. It's not like an extra 8th and two extra 9th slots will help all that much.

Maneuvers: You could simply add a level of swordsage for 5th level maneuvers off of the largest list of the three initiator classes. But since you are reading about getting even more than a full tripple nines, that's probably not going to satisfy. Instead, or perhaps in addition buy the Crown of the White Raven (and its variants) for any level maneuver at a cost of only up to 22.5k (and 1.8k xp) a pop to craft. If for some reason you need a bunch of low level maneuvers, you can always get a legacy weapon and armor for some feats and then martial stance / study up to 5th level ones.

Incarnum: Incarnum is like binding. Pick something you really want and work around it. Grab shape soulmeld and the applicable Open least/lesser/greater Chakra and have fun. Remember that you can always Split Chakra a space you need a magic item for. also having lots of incarnum won't make much of a difference unless you find several chakras that all highly benefit from essentia. In this case, Expanded Soulmeld Capacity (5 essentia per chakra now) and Bonus Essentia are a must. It gives 2 and the rest give 1: midnight augmentation, healing soul, incarnum spellshaping, cobalt critical, cobalt charge, cerulean fortitude, cerulean relfexes, cerulean will, azure toughness, azure talent, midnight dodge, midnight metamagic, sapphire springt, soulsight, soultouched spellcasting are all applicable for a caster. Keep in mind most of these simply suck on their own. Aside from essentia needs you can get any of the nifty abilities you want for 2 feats (+1 if u want that magic item slot open and +1 if you want two chakras that are in the same place), then add shape soulmeld for every extra chakra (+5 feats per maxed essenita's chakra). Or you could risk the dispel, the spell or psionic versions will replace the first two feats.

Binding:
You could try the sub-par Bind vestige and perhaps with practiced binder. But the list really doesn't have anything a munchkin of your level could (ab)use. This is where a level of binder could actually help, since the feat doesn't allow you to advance your EBL (effective binder level). But thanks to your bloodlines and the improved binder feat just you can bind up to fourth level vestiges. Which is not too shabby. Again let me reiterate that binder abilities are simply not as useful as maneuvers when compared level per level and overall.

True-Naming: Wait I think you are in the wrong section... we should all know how much this magic source blows. First of all don't even think of taking a level in this class. There are ways to boost your feats so you actually have the extra left over to do this. Grab Truenaming Training, Minor Utterance of the Evolving Mind x2 and Utterance of the Evolving Mind. There now you have 2nd level utterances. Also the crafted tool and Perfect map can be used, but there is no second level utterance version. Because the Recitation feats are useless, that's all. See? Didn't that suck? I warned you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/Spoiler]

On the manifesting side you end up with 3 1st level powers and 30 powers of any level (I think). Another 22 and a half percent more doesn't really matter when you already have 280pp, especially when you have nine times your int mod in bonus pp (10x after practiced manifestor if you really want). Full BM casting is yummy: 5 9th levels and 6 of all lower level spells. The last level of ur-priest is almost dead so its really not worth it, since your 9th level divine casting will mainly come from bonus spells (6/5/4/4/4/4/3/2/1/0 rather than 6/5/5/4/4/4/4/3/2/1). Bonus Ninth level spells come with a wisdom score of 28,36,44, etc. It shouldn't be too hard to pick up a few.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 07:50:44 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2008, 09:25:25 AM »
Build 5 Maximum Rebuke and Command possible

Thread Summary:
Quote from: First Post
I prefer to stay on the edge of the optimization here - doing strange attempts at records few care about. Apparently though this one is interesting (for other people said so (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=18993705)). This is without UMD abuse. Various parts were added at different times. First was doomdreamer, last was how the Necrothane's rebuke undead is SURE to stack, which led to Atropal Scion. I also just before posting redid the PrC structure. Usually it is not hard to grab lots of high HD undead an evil character. But its a lot harder to maintain full rebuking and (mostly) full casting as a neutral cleric. Here we go:

The Build:[spoiler]
*TN, *LN, or *LE Halruuan Human eventually worshiping Wee Jas with the Magical Training and Practiced Spellcaster feats

Cloistered cleric 5 (domains: knowledge, spell and animal or scalykind) [Improved Turning]
Paragnostic Apostle 2 (See Through the Veil, Mortal Coil) [Spell Focus(Necromancy)]
Doomdreamer 1 (I can cast rage, mage armor and magic missile from anyspell) choose Kiss of undead (Su) so we will need an int of 20, which is no problem at this level.
Paragnostic Apostle 2 (Mind over Body, Penetrating Insight)
Bone Knight 10 [Divine Energy Focus, Assume Supernatural Ability, Weapon Focus, Stitched-Flesh familiar. You might as well spell-stitch your familiar and yourself if you are undead. If you are you can get 2 Psychic Reformat-able taint feats to throw on DMM persist goodies... allowing Persistent buffs on others][/spoiler]

Starting Rebuking and Command Undead Calculations[spoiler]
What we need to boost is our Effective Cleric Level, here-after called the EclerL. Keep in mind it is the Doomdreamer PrC that makes this number twice as high. That makes our Commandable undead HD equal to our EclerL rather than half it.

Classes: 5+(*4+2)+0+9+3=21[/spoiler]

The Check:[spoiler]a charisma check of 10 will assure EClerL
We get this automatically by:+2 from Knowledge(Religion) with 5 ranks
+3 cloak of chasima +6
+4 venerable age & Tome of Leadership and Influence
a roll of 1 will still achieve the DC

Magic Items and Enhancements: 4+1+3+4+2*4+4+4=28
*+4 icon of ravenloft (ECR214, 18,000gp)
*+1 Flametouched Iron material for Holy Symbol (Eberron Campaign Setting, +750 gp)
*+3 Scepter of the Netherworld (Libris Mortis, 9,000gp)
*+4 Phylactery of Undead Turning (Dungeon Master's Guide, 11,000 gp)
*+8 Sacred Armour/Shield Special Ability (BoED 112) on a Chain Shirt, a Chahar-aina (from OA), Dastanas (also from OA) and a Shield for 4+4+4+8=20k
+4 Ruby Blade (CD 100 46,902gp, worship Wee Jas and costs 6th level spell slot)
*+4 Legacy level 2nd category 1 space "Improved Turning" (obviously optimal in custom Legacy Weapon form)
Other Form Stackage: 20 via draconic polymorph or 25 via shapechange :embarrass

At level 12: If you are not being cheesy prepare greater anyspell (from spell domain) in your domain spot and use your pretty much empty spellbook to prepare draconic polymorph. With some prayer beads you will need another +3CL to become Necrothane.
At level 20: if you are into that sort of thing you can shapechange into a 25HD Atropal Scion. It gets you only +5 more than the other two forms. Most DMs however will ban this spell with a justifiable knee-jerk reaction so this is not a big focus.

Other: 1+1+3+{8+[2]} -> 5+{10} = {15}
+1 Bloodtouched Rite (PGtE 23)
*+1 Improved Turning feat
*+3 Major Bloodline [This does not count against Effective Character Level]
*+8 Light of Wisdom spell (CC p124) [Cleric 3 w/ 22 CL after reserves of strength] (prayer beads and an ioun stone help if your DM is a stickley and your are persisting this) {without persist this might not help for the HD total among multiple undead}
[edit:]*+2 Inspiring Turning Bard Alternate Class Feature {A construct/undead cohort or something you could keep this up 24/7 if you need the extra total HD commanded in total} (note it does work with rebukes also since it mentions the destroy undead ACF, which though a separate DMM-able pool, is not counted in CoDzilla or his cohort with the max pool build due to a lack of a another separate cleric base class to use it with)

See the double cheesy dipping section for the *[/spoiler]

Things that Help Commanding high HD undead, but do not help controlling lots of HD's worth:[spoiler]2+4+4=10
*+2 Divine Energy Focus (it helps get half of that 4 higher than EClerL turned/rebuked but not commandable)
-4 Turning Resistance Rod of Defiance (MIC, 7,312gp) (not included for total commandable undead HD)
-4 Turning Resistance Lyre of the Restful Soul [DC15 perform] (Libris Mortis, 3,000gp) (not included for total commandable undead HD)

Things that help controlling lots of HD's worth but do not help commanding high HD undead: just 4
+4 Stitched-Flesh Familiar feat (This rather worthless bonus is not in the extra cheese build)[/spoiler]

The Totals:
21+28+(20 or 25)+{15}+10 = a 94 or 99 HD undead commanded at one time
[21+28+(20 or 25)+{15}+4]*2 = 176 or 186 HD worth of undead controlled in sum

Quote from: MASSIVE EDIT
Abusing the Good Lich Template[spoiler]It might seem a bit cheezy, but by starting LN and going LG we could take the Good Lich template (MoO'F90) at level 12. It has the possibility for 3 very yummy abilities, one neat one and one silly one. The newer LM156 entry agrees on the turning aspect we want to take but from the Baelnorn entry in MoO'F it clearly can't completely override the earlier entry. So it could seemingly grant turning and (extra) rebuke EclerL equal to our "level" which is in case would be our ECL, a retributive turning (but not rebuking as turning/destroying) immunity, permanent water walking, and the 3/day hour long, mile away 20AC 20' perfect flying projection that sees into the ethereal and give 50% of its damage but can't be turned dispelled (it can only push or move small things).

The key ability is the additional turn AND additional rebuke that scales with level. We then buyoff that LA. This is where things seem a bit TO. Why? Its a fact that characters willing to can get temporarily negative levels can temporarily reduce their ECL only to get those levels restored at a later time by repeated castings of the restoration spell. So for a character who has access to this spell, he can fully reduce more than an LA3 pre-epic. Indeed even an LA of 6 can be fully bought off (the XP penalty is huge though) with this rather obvious trick.

But wait undead are not subject to level drain. So this doesn't work for them. Also consider that all other means of becoming undead do not allow you to become good. However you became undead, you can't simply character evolve one step into a different alignment, just like a Prestige class would not let you. The The Good Lich template is the exception. Note that things like helm of opposite alignment or mindrape are mind-affects with undead are immune to. We then qualify for the Risen Martyr (BoED 68) prestige class, unlike any other undead. You can then gain negative levels and slowly restore them yourself at each buyoff level.[/spoiler]

Our extra cheese build now looks like this:[spoiler]
LN -> LG (anytime before level 7) Major titan bloodline Dwarf eventually worshiping Wee Jas with the Versatile Spellcaster (if your DM doesn't think spontaneously casting cure spells, just be a fully spontaneous cleric), Extend Spell(flaw), and Sanctum Spell(flaw) feats

Cloistered cleric 2 (domains: knowledge, spell and animal or scalykind)
*Paragnostic Apostle 5 (See Through the Veil, Mortal Coil, Penetrating Insight, Mind over Body, Spacial awareness) [Spell Focus(Necromancy), Persistent Spell]
   This gives a nice +3CL to our polymorph and shapechange so that we only need prayer beads and a consumable
   Also at ECL5 we get a bonus feat from our Legacy weapon. Lets take [Divine Metamagic (persistent spell)]
Doomdreamer 1 (I can cast rage, mage armor and magic missile from anyspell) choose Kiss of undead (Su) so we will need an int of 20, which is no problem at this level.

Now we psychic reformation the useless Titan bloodline feat improved sunder and versatile spellcaster and sanctum spell feats into Weapon Focus (warhammer), Great Fortitude and Armor Proficiency (heavy). Now we can have divine power on all day and we qualify for the The Faith Scion PrC even if we never find that silly weapon.

*Faith Scion 10 [Craft Wonderous Item, Nymph's Kiss, Assume Supernatural Ability, and Combat Casting]
   At ECL 9 becomes a Good Lich (Beads of Karma can make up the needed caster level)
   At ECL 11 we take [Nimbus of Light] from our Weapon of Legacy ritual
   At ECL 12 buyoff
Risen Martyr 0 (temporarily) in order to take 3 negative levels and buyoff the start of the 3 LA left.
   Restoration ourselves back to ECL 12 for another buyoff
   Psychic Reformation that useless Nimbus of Light feat into [Divine Energy Focus]
   At ECL 17 we take [Improved Turning] from our Weapon of Legacy ritual
*Warpriest 1 (if you want you can psychic reformate the spell focus(enchantment) from our domination domain). Since this is ECL18, we have space for the Reserves of Strength feat.
*Bone Knight 1

      Note: The Warpriest class is unnecessary but it fit the flavor so damn well and BK2 gives nothing but an unneeded casting level, an unneeded skeletal mount, and a nifty but only-for-animated undead ability which doesn't fit well with this build's idea. Without its combat casting or the Nymph's Kiss feat this build has 3 feats to spare.[/spoiler]

Double Cheesy Dipping, or why Bone Knight rocks:[spoiler]Its understandable to bend over backwards for the 9th level spells. But is an extra 20HD from the Good Lich-granted rebuke really worth it? Probably not. But giving the turn undead is  :smirk. Take a look at how the first level of Bone Knight stacks with your turn undead: "If already had the ability to turn or rebuke undead, you add your effective cleric level to your bone knight level to determine your effective level for rebuking undead now." The downside is "you can never again turn undead once you gain this ability." It's very explicit. Not only do you double dip that first level for rebuke and turn but then your whole turn-only EclerL gets dumped into your rebuke EclerL!  :love

This means that all the little bonuses that can add to both turning undead and rebuke now add twice to the rebuke side. Whoa. All the listed parts in the 'Rebuking and Command Undead Calculations' section with a * are added twice. So the extra 20 levels of rebuke from Good Lich + the level's double-dipping (PA5, FS10, Wp1, BK1, and the 20 the Good Lich template's turning) plus the items that double-dipped (4+1+3+4+2*4+4) plus the rest that is double dipped (1+2+3+5+2) adds a whopping 92 more HD![/spoiler]

Additions: the shroudcrown (PGtF 124) makes turning as a 10th level cleric. If we get this after good lich, it should stack without our existing cleric turning. We probably should get this before boneknight to be safe
Ephod of Authority adds +1 EClerL turn only for 800gp (MIC215)
Mace of Undead Prowess adds +2 EClerL both while in possession (7,812gp) LM66
Mace of the Dark Children adds +2 EClerL for rebuke only (8012gp) MIC53
Kin Mastery feat with necromantic bloodline, alternate source spell and reformated magical training adds +9 EClerL for rebuke only
Devastation of Nerull (CC134) doesn't help RAW since it only boosts CL not EClerL :(
On second thought, since the total commanded undead value is based off the HD of a commandable undead, Divine Energy focus does help for total HD.
Talisman of Undead Mastery: 3kgp 1/day +4 ECL for turn or rebuke. I assume that if its been used for turn once before and it is available during BK1, it's a double-dip as well. (MIC188)

The New Total:
21+28+(20 or 25)+{15}+10+20+37+24+13+(10+1+2*2+2+9+4*2) = a 222 or 227 HD undead commanded at one time
[21+28+(20 or 25)+{15}+6+20+37+24+13+(10+1+2*2+2+9+4*2)]*2 = 436 or 446 HD worth of undead controlled in sum
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 02:07:15 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2008, 09:26:32 AM »
Build 6 [Maximum SA possible per hit brute force style]

NE Otherworldly Elf or any lesser planetouched or fully LA bought-off outsiders

The Classes: (not necessarily in this order)
[Spoiler]Binder 1 / Rogue 1 / Spell Thief 1 / Psionic Rogue 1 / Wilderness Rogue 1 / SA Variant Fighter  1 / Master of Masks 1 / Justiciar of Taiia 1 / Nightsong Enforcer 1 / Guild Thief 1 / Assassin 1 / Ninja of the Crescent Moon 1 / Fang of Sseth 1 / Unseen Seer 1 / Swift Scion 2 / Bayushi Deceiver 1 / Shadow Thief of Amn 1 / Ronin 1 / Cancer Mage 1

An intermediate or major bloodlines allows Binder 1 to bind Andromalius with the improved binding feat[/Spoiler]

Get the Pre-req feats, a few combat feats and Martial Study (Cloak of Deception maneuver for swift->greater invis until end of your turn) & Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance = +2d6 SA as swift action)

You didn't forget Bracers of Murder from DotU right? +2 on attack/damage rolls on flat-footed targets, meh. +2 on the save DC of a death attack, meh. You may reroll any 1's on your Sneak Attack dice as much as you want. Bingo!

Total Sneak Attack
[Spoiler]8d6 racial after you draconic polymorph into a Kelvasu Demon (MM2 59)
19d6 from every level after 1
3d6 Binder 1 binding Andromalius with major bloodline & improved binding feat
2d6+24 via martial stance, & craven feats with healer's vision
1d6 via Bracers of the Hunter
1d6 Mantle of the Predator (on melee only but +5 hide&move is good too)
1d6 via Rogue Vest
1d6 Foe Specialist feat [MH26] to favored enemy type
3d6 Umbral Awn or Custom Legacy
2d6SA via Enhancements of Assassination (+1) & Deadly Precision enhancement (+1) [MiC32]
1d6 Critical Strike Spell (assassin 1 from unseen seer help) swift -> keen & power critical
1d6 from finger blade if 1st round of combat and able to be flat-footed (technically unnamed SA)
1d6 Mutineer's Eye Pirate graft Drag Mag 318 p54 (-2 Spot, SA only if you already have, 4k gp)
Channel the Mishtai = +1d6 for 1 minute
Nightstalker's Transformation = +3d6SA, ~spells for the 10 rounds but can still UMD
Hunter's Eye = +7d6 SA as swift for 1 round (CL 19)
= 55d6+24 for each iteration (8 attacks per round I would consider the minimum, giving 573-2570 SA damage on a full attack)[/Spoiler]

Note: You can also abuse Sublime chord and ur-priest to up CL to ungodly levels and abuse Hunter's Eye. But this if CL abuse spelling is used then why not just consumptive field to ni-infinite amounts? Also remember that anything a non-caster can do, a factotum can do better (by maxing feats and taking all fonts of inspiration)... Barring those 3 loopholes, this is the max. But I'm not sure if a DM will let you do those while the brute force method above hopefully seems acceptable.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 01:34:24 AM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2008, 09:27:52 AM »
Build 7 [The Maximum Eldritch Blast Damage or Abusing Bloodlines Makes Long Range Artillery]

Strongheart Halfling with Darkstalker, Hidden Talent feats

Feats by Level
[Spoiler]3=item familiar, 6=least legacy, 9=empower SLA, 12=quicken SLA, 15=maximize SLA, 18=Mortalbane

Hidden Talent + torc of power preservation + Bloodline Levels = half an hour long compression[/Spoiler]

Level Breakdown
[Spoiler]Binder 1
Warlock 6 = 3d6 eldritch blast, Eldritch Spear and Darkness then Fell Flight and Hellrime Blast invocations, detect magic, DR/1 cold iron

Hellfire Warlock 3 = +2d6 per class level -> 6d6+6d6(bloodlines), another +2d6 from warlock, Eldritch chain [first level of this is taken after first level in Legacy Champion unless your DM is a pain]

Legacy Champion 10 = 8 hellfire warlock levels ->16d6 and 3d6 from warlock along with 4 greater invocations (vitriolic blast, enervating shadow, devour magic and eltritch cone) and 3 dark invocations (dark discorporation, retributive invisibility and utterdark blast)[/Spoiler]

Damage Additions Outside of Levels
[Spoiler]The Mortalbane feat gives 2d6 more on the attack (due to the modifying language it seems to change the base damage like Hellfire Blast) five times per day. The Warlock's scepter allows you to blow 5 charges once a day to gain 4d6 Eldritch blast damage (MIC 63). Chasuble of Fell Power (greater) adds another 2d6 and Gloves of eldritch mixture can add 4d6 once a day. Lets add Plunging shot for 2d6 and if really want either psionic weapon->great psionic weapon or precise shot -> Psionic shot -> Greater psionic shot for 4d6. Hell, for shits and giggles you can even throw in Aberration Banemagic for another 2d6 if you hurt an aberration and Eldritch Dragonbane for +1d6 if that aberration has the dragonblood subtype.[/Spoiler]

After grabbing a source of polymorph to be a Soul demon (DungMag139 86) for another 7d6, you are an almost fully maxed out warlock with a 47d6+14d6 hellfire Eldritch blast (1d6 less on nonliving targets, 2d6 less if not an aberration) from 250' away while hidden with full concealment... If you had 5 non-aberration live enemies in sight you could Enlarge, Quicken, and Maximize Eldritch Chain to do ~400-500 to the 1(twice or 2) primary target(s) and ~200-250 to the 4 secondary targets for a total of ~1600-2000 damage which can bypass any non-acid immune creature's SR thanks to vitriolic blast. Or you could always swap in Eldritch Glave and give go a Eldritch version of "The Masochist" allowing you to (with a wand of tensor's transformation) do more with haste every time they try to get a melee iteration on you (Reflex for half at DC33+cha mod). If you go that route do NOT forget to power attack (shock trooper is up to you)

If Your Greedy for More
[Spoiler]You can also add two feats (via flaws), two items and two spells (via umd) to net 14d6 SA if you have a party to help with the flanking: Check the maximum SA build if you actually have a nice enough party to let you flank.[/Spoiler]

Interpretational Note
[Spoiler]If your DM reads the class progression of Legacy Champion differently than me (I would say non-first and non-seventh levels allow you to at that time choose any of your other classes to progress) and says that upon entering it must be the same class, this build can STILL manage the prereqs for hellfire warlock by taking Favored and Primary contact in an explorer guild to get that extra skill rank. This combined with the extra skill levels (at double cost for being cross-class) still allows 3 levels of hellfire warlock and all 10 levels of Legacy Champion after the warlock and binder base classes.

Furthermore, if you are going by RAW I'll weigh in and say that grabbing the Open Greater chakra feat to meld the Strongheart Vest to your waist instead of taking a Binder 1 dip will allow you to avoid that pesky con damage from your Hellfire blasts. However ability damage DR is just too close to "somehow immune to Con damage" for comfort for me to ever allow it as a DM. It certainly violates every fiber of anyone's RAI which would make it read "somehow not actually get hurt by the Con damage." So if you want a DM-unfriendly absolute Max remove that binder level, grab the aforementioned feat and take a Eldritch Blast enhancing dip. Use the Favored+Primary contact trick if need be on hellfire warlock if you need to make prereqs for a late class. Since this is much more sketchy (and makes the build almost unplayable from level 8 until level 18 I didn't make it the main path. It only gives an extra 1d6 anyways[/Spoiler]
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 02:08:59 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2008, 09:31:04 AM »
Build 8 [The MAXED +1sorc casting non-ascended, Non-epic Demilich kobold]

This requires Bestiary of Kyrnn (an official WotC book):

Venerable Desert Dragonwraught Kobold [small, -4Str +2Dex +1Wis +3int +3cha, Fav Rogue, +4fort for heat, +2Surv,craft(trap),&search, auto drac, bon com&und] with the Variant Kobold Racial Traits for the slight (tiny) build. He's fully bought off before going lich and demilich

How to Cast Ninth Level Spells at ECL8 without Metamagic:
[spoiler]    Start with the Dragonspawn(white) acquired template giving +1sorcerer casting, +7nat, +2con, +2dex, 60'fly average, a bite, 2 claws, a 2d6 cone of cold breath weapon, and a temporary monstrous humanoid type (this is below dragon on the type pyramid).

   At level 1 take Sorcerer 1, the Dragonwrought feat (RotD 100) giving the dragon type from monstrous humanoid, lowlight vision, and 60'darkvision, and then the Loredrake Sovereign Archetype which lowers his non-existent racial HD to d10s and he loses his non-existent cleric casting in exchange for +2sorcerer casting, 1d6cold death throes.

   Don't forget the cost of his familiar (100gp), the Draconic Rite of Passage (RotD 43) (100gp), and the greater Draconic Rite of Passage (1000) and the total of 4 hp the rituals subtracts.

   At level 3 he takes the Draconic Reservoir feat and uses the LA Buyoff to have a normal ECL.

   Sometime after that but before 6 he will take the acquired Abomination Dragonspawn template for 1 LA, giving (since the kobold base creature is not listed it gains an additional table roll in lieu of the Race Specific Mutation) +0 to +6sorcerer casting. The three rolls could all land 96-100 which then double into 6 rolls that could all manage an 86-90. Yes I understand that the upper limit is a 1/3600 chance.

   At level 6 he completes the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage for +1sorcerer casting and if another LA1 template is taken before this level the Abomination dragonspawn LA can be bought off now. For an optimal template, check the next spoiler.

This means that at ECL8 after the buyoff but before getting all the way to level 9 we could have 8 regular levels of sorcerer + up to 10 effective increases for any 9th level spells from the sorcerer list.

This build could be interesting in the ECL8 variant of E6 if you had a DM who was forgiving on the LA buyoff[/spoiler]

How to be a non-epic Demilich:
[spoiler]Cross reference the EHL's page 155 with MM1 to get +8LA in addition to your lich template. Now we have enough ECL to simply go straight lich (too bad the level 21 sorcerer thing isn't 'casts as' a level 21 sorc; it would allow dry lich thanks to alterate source spell + precocious apprentice + flaws = entry at ECL2).

This build is obviously not for the ECL8 variant of E6. The above build with additions looks like this in summary:
1 Dragonspawn then dragonwraught
2 Sorc 1
3 Sorc 2
     LA Buyoff of the Dragonspawn template
  3 Sorc 3 then Draconic Reservoir
  4 Sorc 4
  5 Abomination Dragonspawn
  6 Lich 1 (See below)
       LA Buyoff of the Abomination Dragonspawn template
    6 Sorc 5
    7 X
    8 X
         LA Buyoff of the Lich 1 Template Class
         Level Drain of 2 levels
      6 Lich 2
      7 Lich 3
      8 Lich 4
         LA Buyoff of the Lich 2 Template Class
          8 Sorc 5
          9 Sorc 6
        10 Sorc 7
        11 Sorc 8
        12 Sorc 9
        13 Sorc 10
        14 Sorc 11
            LA Buyoff of the Lich 3 Template Class
            14 X
            15 X
            16 X
            17 X
                LA Buyoff of the Lich 4 Template Class
                Level Drain of 4
                12 Demilich Template

The Lich Template Class requires having a CL of 11 and the Craft Wondrous Item feat prior to its first level. After taking the Abomination Dragonspawn template at ECL5 our sorcerer level is already up to 1+4+6 which means we don't need to persist CL boosters or anything. Those with a careful eye will notice that I have the Lich 1 template class counting in the LA buyoff levels. It does :). Also note that even with the level draining, at no point was this character epic.

The above kobold has takes 11 levels in sorcerer, has +10 levels in sorcerer total. The LA+4 lich is an acquired template without steep prereqs. If we take the LA+8 demilich template we would stand at ECL20. Phew. We meet the 21st level sorcerer requirement and with only medium crafting reductions, have more than enough WBL to craft our soul gems assuming the template simply requires the soulstones after the template is taken (and your WBL goes up). If you don't have that assumption simply craft the stones and take the template immediately following the level drain. There is only a completely internal and non-TO WBL imbalance for a few seconds, like tossing a bag of gold in there air. More severe cost reduction would of course be required.

Keep in mind the demi-lich version of magic immunity also applies to "supernatural effects" so anything magical doesn't effect you. I understand that the rules compendium page 131 says "A creature that has this characterisic is immune to any spell or SLA that allows spell resistance," but this does not contradict the fact that you are still immune to spells and supernatural abilities that do NOT allow spell resistance. Although you can't alter self, the 3.5 errata/update keeps this magic immunity and gives you a 180 perfect (Ex) fly speed :)[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 07:32:36 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2008, 09:31:59 AM »
Build 9 [The Maximum Hit Point Tank - another example of evil doing it better]

any evil, any race with one or two flaws (or any bloodline that grants a feat or can serve can elder evil)

Feats and Swappage
[Spoiler]1-3: The first four feats can be any as long as skill knowledge (spellcraft) is one. The three undecided feats become open lesser chakra
6: necrocarnum acolyte
9, 12, 15: may be any, but the 15th will be reformated into the heart of incarnum feat at level 16
18: any[/Spoiler]

Level Breakdown: X 3 / Totemist 2 / Necrocarnate 13 / X 2 with any major bloodline (for the skill ranks)

In truth the totemist isn't even needed, I just like the totem chakra so that this character has access to every chakra in DnD save 5 worthless soulborn only ones. Human with Incarnate 4 means no flaws or psychic reformats are needed. Pushing back the Necrocarnate start two levels means no need for a bloodline or the skill knowledge feat as long as you take full classes with it in-class.

If Your Greedy for More you can add all the usual tactics. Be a faire-initiate dried lich with insane charisma. Add necrotic tumors, improved toughness, a few more incarnum, etc. I didn't do that here, because they only add a few hundred, maybe a thousand or two if I try really hard. That is not enough on scale with the total to make much of a difference.

I am aware that even rougher early-entry tricks (see my supermount) will allow legacy champion to add to the necrocarnate levels for even more HP. If it matters, just give me a holler and I'll post it.

HP calculations; aka how this works
[Spoiler]This can be easy or this can be hard. The easy interpretation is that animals are corpses too, and even the fluff of incarnum suggests everything is made of it. Find or be a chicken-infested commoner. Be a warforged or undead or become immune to exhaustion. Note that you do not need the usual meldshaping sleep for this combo. Use the Havest Soul ability on those chickens nonstop for a day, hopefully right until you go to battle. The problem is that even thought the ability never required sentient creatures, animals don't have souls so the RAI screams cheese.

The hard way is going TO with a 'fed' soul-sucker. Perhaps you run an evil kingdom and have slaves lined up like the Aztecs. Or perhaps you just got lucky one day and got to 'clean up' from a major battle. I don't care either way.

Before Necrocarnate 10 the calculations look like this assuming all you do is grab incarnum with no extra sources:
1 or 2 -> 60 min x 24 hours x 1 = 1,440 bonus hp
3 or 4 -> 60 min x 24 hours x 2 = 2,880 bonus hp
5 or 6 -> 60 min x 24 hours x 3 = 4,320 bonus hp
7 or 8 -> 60 min x 24 hours x 4 = 5,760 bonus hp
9       -> 60 min x 24 hours x 5 = 7,200 bonus hp
After Necrocarnate 9 the calculations look like this assuming all you do is grab incarnum with no extra sources:
11 or 12      -> 10 rounds x 60 min x 24 hours x 6 = 86,400 bonus hp
13 or (14)    -> 10 rounds x 60 min x 24 hours x 7 = 100,800 bonus hp
(15) or (16) -> 10 rounds x 60 min x 24 hours x 8 = (115,200 bonus hp)
(17) or (18) -> 10 rounds x 60 min x 24 hours x 9 = (129,600 bonus hp)

In all of the above cases, for each round that the character stops, it loses 6hp. These are NOT temporary HP, so they don't come off the top 'damaged' section of your HP. These are really, however bonus, HP. So you can die in a fight or after because you don't get healed and stop sucking up incarnum.[/Spoiler]

For giggles, put pain mastery on this build as a Hulk-style BBEG
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 09:33:19 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2008, 09:33:12 AM »
Build 10 [Making a Vampire PC that Doesn't Suck - figuratively, of course.]

Note: This build assumes that PC class-level requiring templates that advance by character class have no LA.

You will need:
1. Savage Progression Vampire template classes (only the first 5 or 6 LA levels)
2. The Savage Vampire variant (LM170) (because otherwise your DM won't like you basically being a diplomancer to everyone you can merely talk to)
3. The Vampire Lord template (notice that although its +CR3, for PCs its listed as by character class -> +LA0)
4. The Swarmform Vampire variant (LM170)
5. A long-arched campaign (will require you age 100 years. Best if between your level 18 and 19)

The idea is a fully bought off (undead via different manner) build with everything a vampire would have but the last:
[spoiler]2 dex 2 cha and 2nat,
2 Bluff, Hide, Listen, Move Silent, Search, Sense Motive & Spot
4 turn resistance
<3/day gaseous form
combat reflexes feat
only 1 rat swarm, a bat swarm, or 1d3 wolves
only 1 energy drain on the slam attack
The last two big thing missing is Create Spawn which is campaign-breaking if used correctly[/spoiler]

In exchange for killing a subordinate vampire, having a dead master vampire, and spending 64k xp:
any LA0 with 6 levels deep in the savage progression or LA1 + 5 levels deep in the savage progression humanoid or monstrous humanoid with necropolitan thrown in there somewhere:
[spoiler]+22str, +10nat, +10dex, +6cha, +6wis,
+6Bluff, +14Hide, +14Listen, +14Move Silent, +6Search, +10Sense Motive, +14Spot, +8jump, +8diplomacy, +8intimidate, +4scry -> gather info? (It can be removed, it doesn't matter)
Alertness, Dodge, improved initiative, lightning reflexes, Iron Will & Leadership feats
50' fly (perfect)
1 energy drain on slam and both claws (soul-stealer anyone?)
Alternate Form (Su) -> wild shape used by a 12th-level druid. At will as a move action.
3 wolves, 1 rat and bat swarms permanently. You can sense through their senses and communicate empathically at 10 mile range!
24 hours to get any soil from its place of birth instead of a cramped old coffin
3/day gaseous form
spider climb
Telekinesis (Su): A vampire lord can use telekinesis (caster level 12th) at will.
Telepathy (Su): living creatures in 100 feet with language or vampires under your direct control [/b]within 1 mile[/b].
Turn Resistance +4
Divine Grace= cha -> saves as a paladin
Control Weather (Sp): control weather or fog cloud as a 12th-level sorcerer at will.
Blood Drain (Su): inflicts 1d4+2 points of Constitution drain each round the pin is maintained.
No vampire weaknesses at all (even reflections) except you can't use SUs while in sunlight
Really hard to make stay dead (decapitation, burning, burying, scattering, etc)
Fast Healing 8 (if you have fast healing as ex by the 6th template class level or from another source)
DR 10/Silver (according to the 3.5 update rules)[/spoiler]

Congradulations you are a fully bought-off kick-arse vampire, though you did gain vampirism and later undeath in a novel manner. You did burn your CON off before undeath, right?

1 unique thing:
By applying the swarmform variant last, it is arguable that this will allow WSing into any applicable swarm. Yes its sketchy, but there doesn't exist any other way to do this in all of DnD 3.5! Besides this is a melee (ie savage) vampire, not some caster with "I win" buttons.




The Optimal Reverse Engineered Vampiric Dragon Version:
Note: This build assumes that the nearly identical Vampiric Dragon template has a mirror Savage Progression to that of the Vampire Template Savage Progression. If you think allowing a +1 version of celestial armor heresy against the sacred RAW then, even with the above LA assumption, this build is not for you.

First of all lets contrast the type templates in Regular vs Vampiric Dragon format[spoiler]
Blood drain any vs Blood drain 1 size smaller than the dragon or any equal or larger
Coffin vs Horde
Str +6, Dex +4, nat+6 vs Str +4, Dex +6, nat+2
cold&elec res 10 vs cold&elec res 20
Spider Climb (Ex) vs none
DR10/silver&magic vs none
natural weapons as magic weapons for DR vs none
standard action 30' gaze as dominate person CL12 vs standard action 30+10'/Age Category gaze as dominate monster CL18
slam vs none
garlic, cross, mirror, water immersion, sunlight slow & direct 1 round vs cross, sunlight slow & direct Age Category rounds
No reflexion or shadow, cross running water, invitation vs No reflexion or shadow, invitation
Auto & at will (CL5) gaseous form 4.5mi/hr vs Auto gaseous form 9mi/hr
bat, dire bat, wolf, or dire wolf form until sunrise but no natural slam attack and dominate ability vs none
(Su) 1/day 1hour 1d6+1rat or 1d4+1bat swarms, 3d6wolves in 2d6rounds vs none
augmented vs Loses subtype but KEEPS IMMUNITIES
d12/HD vs d12+4/HD
may only have spawn totaling 2xHD but those spawn can have spawn vs any number of spawn, zombie dragons if not adult or vampiric dragons if adult
any natural weapon -2levels 1/round vs claw -1level
Nothing vs charm monster 30'/Age Category upon full round speaking (no sight needed)

Lastly there is a significant difference between the vampire template and the full savage progression vampire class: the undeath allows anything that used con to use cha. Wow. Therefore we are going to reverse engineer this as a Savage Progression vampire if it were a vampiric dragon rather than as a vampiric dragon if it were a savage progression vampire in order to keep this insanely buffed change to undeath.[/spoiler]

The Vampiric Dragon Savage Progression would then look like:[spoiler]
1, Str +2, Con -2, spawn slavery, blood drain (~-2size), res cold&electric 10, +2 Bluff,Hide,Listen,Move,Search,Sense,Spot, fortification (light), vampire bonus feats (Alertness, Dodge)

2, Cha +2, Dex +2, res cold&electric 20, fast healing 1 on Horde, +4 Bluff,Hide,Listen,Move,Search,Sense,Spot, fortification (moderate), vampire bonus feats (Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes)

3, Str +2, Wis +2, blood drain (greater), fast healing 5 on Horde, +6 Bluff,Hide,Listen,Move,Search,Sense,Spot, Charm&Dominate 1/day 10', natural armor +2, no reflexion&shadow, cross, private areas

4, Dex +2, Int +2, undeath (4+d12's), fast healing 1, +8 Bluff,Hide,Listen,Move,Search,Sense,Spot, Charm&Dominate 3/day 10', turn resistance +4, Slowed sunlight, 3xAgre Category rounds to die

5, Dex +2, Cha +2, Create vampire or spawn or vampiric dragon or zombie dragon of any HD, fast healing 5, 1 energy drain upon claw, no per round limit, Charm&Dominate at will 30'+10'/Age Category, vampire bonus feat (Combat Reflexes), Direct sunlight now gives Age Category rounds to die.[/spoiler]

Further Variant and Template Considerations[spoiler]
Savage Vampire variant: Of course the negative level abilities stacks with your existing one but due to poor editing the +8 racial Hide, Move & Spot bonuses overlap. Considered replacing them with Tumble, Climb & Balance.

Vampire Lord template:
The slam attack is the default vampire's natural attack. Our draconic vampires default natural attack is the claws. Therefore they give a total of 3 negative levels a hit.

Too bad the draconic vampire doesn't have Children of the Night (Su). See below for how to get this awesome upgrade.

The improved Create Spawn (Su): should instead never create zombie dragons, only vampiric dragons.

The garlic & mirrors immunity should be traded for the ability to enter private dwelling without invitation (since this is supposed to close the vulnerabilities and this is the only one left) while the running water and immersion vulnerability upgrade should be traded for a swim speed (since they sort of assume the lesser vulnerabilities of aquatic subtype vampire)

The -4stats,saves,skill&attacks should instead be what takes the Age Category-1 delay before sunlight has an effect.[/spoiler]

If No Children Of the Night's Buff is Bothersome Considering the Vampire Lord Template Buff[spoiler]
Be a half vampire. Remember, we can start out with any old humanoid. I assume the first LA level would have first the option for Blood Drain or the Charm or Children of the Night ability. Guess which one we choose. That's one ability. The rest are:
Str+2
Dex+2
Cha+2
Nat+2
   Improved Initiative
Cold Resistance 5
Elec Resistance 5
+2 Racial Bluff
+2 Racial Hide
+2 Racial Listen
+2 Racial Move
+2 Racial Spot
DR 5/Magic OR silver
1d6 slam
Natural Weapons count as Magic
Fast Healing 1 if above 1HP and less than 50%

I'm iffy about the Improved Initiative bonus feat. If you want to DCFS it, push your DM for the feat. I assume that it and the last eleven abilities that don't stack with the regular vampire template are the most vampirish (duh) and should compose the second level of the theoretical LA breakdown. 5 or 6 abilities balance out the 12 or 11 others I think.

If you think the theoretical LA 1 version of the template is a stretch, you can still include it. But it will require one mild level draining break to buyoff the extra LA. Honestly I'm avoiding the cheese here.


Now be a dragonborn (yay more con to burn before undeath!) sometime before being an evil vampire. Prey on only evil dragons specifically if the Bahamut fluff bothers you. Some vampire fluff says evil creatures 'taste' better anyways -- I am not making this up.


Why is it worth it? Its a really cool ability and the other bonuses are comparable for their one LA. Its one of the few in all of DnD that allow you to sense through multiple creatures at the same time. Yeah. "The vampire lord can sense through the senses of any such commanded creatures." There is no action or restriction on your normal senses. Hello 10 mile perimeter of continuous scouting. Now if only there was some way to permanently give those summons magical detection....


Note: the (Su) Children of the Night from the half-vampire template is a nerfed version. Since the nerf should carry over, we can expect after the Vampire Lord template to only have 4 rat swarms, 3 bat swarms and 6 wolves, see-through-their-senses-able and 10 mile empathically communicating permanent summons. You miss out on 3 rat swarms, 2 bat swarms, and 12 wolves, buts diminishing returns means these last few summons don't help as much. Also this is me assuming that the 'serve until released' clause doesn't simply allow you infinite summons -- similar to how the vampire spawn pyramid actually works RAW. And me assuming you can't split the swarms and see with hundreds of lone bats and rats....[/spoiler]

The Tally[spoiler]
This Half-Vampire, Dragonborn, Savage, Swarmform, Vampire Lord, Vampiric Dragon is fully bought off and can fit into an ECL20 build.

What you get for the 60k XP is:
Undeath (5+d12's) with cha for con
Charisma-based breath weapon.
50' fly (perfect)
Str +22, Dex +14, Int+2, Wis+6, Cha+10, Nat+10
Unnamed bonus: cha -> saves “as a paladin does”
+8racial Bluff,Hide,Listen,Move,Search,Spot,Jump,Listen,Tumble,Climb,Balance,Diplomacy,Intimidate, +12Sense, +4gather info
turn resistance +8
res cold&electric 20
Alertness, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Combat Reflexes, Iron Will, Leadership
Fast Healing 8
DR 10/Silver
Children of the Night (Su): Permanently summon 4 rat swarms, 3 bat swarms and 6 wolves, seeing through their senses and communicating empathically within 10 miles.
Telepathy (Su): A vampire lord can communicate telepathically with any living creature within 100 feet that has a language, and with any vampiric dragon under its direct control to a range of 1 mile.
Telekinesis (Su): CL12 at will.
Dominate at will 30'+10'/Age Category by gaze or voice, no LoS if heard normal volume
Create Spawn (Su): any HD only vampire or vampiric dragon, never spawn or zombie drag. Enslaved vampire until death, and cannot break free.
Control Weather (Sp): A vampire lord can cast either control weather or fog cloud as a 12th-level sorcerer at will.
Alternate Form (Su) -> wild shape used by a 12th-level druid. At will as a move-equivalent action. The vampire lord can change from one animal shape to another without having to revert to its humanoid form.
+2claws of slam damage with 3 energy drain, no per round limit
Blood Drain (1d4+2con)
Direct Sunlight (not even light spells) -> only -4stats,saves,skill&attacks + no harm but ~(su) uses
death in sunlight -> gaseous at sunset unless decapitate then burned separately & body ashes into running water but head buried while immersed in holy water
Then 24 hours to any piece of soil from homeland[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 10:54:26 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2008, 09:33:47 AM »
Build 11 [Maximum Skirmish - Available in Nonracist, Halfling RAW, and swarmfighting flavors]

The Builds: (Favored Enemy and skirmish amounts assume feats)[spoiler]
*Maximum Skirmish Halfling Version (13BAB, 14d6Skirmish, 6FE, 2nd level spells) - Scout 3 / Ranger 1 / Halfling Hunter Monk 1 / Unseen Seer 1-2 / Hands of the Winged Masters 2 / Dragon Devotee 4 / Highland Stalker 2 / Unseen Seer 3-7.
    Strongheart Halfling with Magical Artisan, Precocious Apprentice, Extra Slot, and Extra Spell at first level.

*Nonracist (15BAB, 13d6Skirmish, 3FE, 4th level spells) - Scout 3 / Ranger 2 / Hands of the Winged Masters 2 / Dragon Devotee 4 / Highland Stalker 2 / Unseen Seer 7

16BAB (12d6Skirmish, 5FE, 4th level spells) - Scout 3 / Ranger 2 / UA variant, Spirit Lion Totem, Dashing Step Barbarian 1 / Dragon Devotee 4 / Highland Stalker 2 / Unseen Seer 7 / Shadow Scout 1

*non-RAW Halfling Swarm-Skirmishing Version (12BAB, 12d6Skirmish, 8FE, 2nd level spells) - Scout 3 / Ranger 2 / Halfling Hunter Monk 1 / UA variant, Spirit Lion Totem, Dashing Step Barbarian 1 / UA Druid 1 / Dragon Devotee 4 / Highland Stalker 2 / Unseen Seer 4 / Abolisher 1 / Shadow Scout 1

*Missing 16BAB can be fixed by DMM-swapped divine power if you really care[/spoiler]

Favored Enemies Totals:[spoiler]
Ranger 1 -> Arcanists +2 (for the nonracist flavor) or Deathless if you are nonRAW and evil
Pseduo-Ranger 5 via Swift Hunter) -> Arcanists +4, Undead +2
Extra Favored Enemy -> Constructs +2
Halfling Hunter Monk 1 -> Plants +2
UA variant, Spirit Lion Totem, Dashing Step Barbarian 1 -> Oozes +2
UA Druid -> Elementals +2
Abolisher 1 -> Aberrations +2
Shadow Scout -> Swarms +1

Total: Arcanists/Deathless +4 & Undead, Constructs, Plants, Oozes, Elementals, Aberrations +2 & Swarms +1

Swarms? You're thinking WTF right? Well I'd like to point out two things. 1) every whole type is allowed as favored enemies (except for humanoids or outsiders which are too 'normal'), so if a character wanted an even more specific and limited subtype that that would also be okay. After all the table does say "Type (Subtype)", so lets add the rare 'swarm' subtype. 2) The swift-hunter handbook on this very forum came to the same conclusion as me. Independently. I'm not barking at the moon. It might not RAW but is more than sensible and still very balanced. In fact I was kind of disappointed with RAW, after all swarm is a core subtype... Obviously if your DM likes to go by RAW bust out the candles of invocation and don't use this alternate swift hunter alternate build.

Or to put it another way: How many players have you ever known to choose Favored Enemy: Humanoid (Gnoll) or Outsider (Water)? How many characters do you think have ever been played (and not pregenerated) who took those options? A dozen? I wouldn't bet on it. What about character who took both? If that didn't illustrate the point consider this: Most non-PHB humanoids are immune to Favored Enemy damage. It's simply not possible to chose a Hellbred as your favored enemy, RAW. Hell even the core, best known subtype in the world: (Shapechanger) isn't applicable. Now go look up the Lupid entry [DMC 18]. See that Favored Enemy: Humanoid (Shapechanger)? If it weren't for specific trumping general, that would be illegal. So in order to actually hunt those lycanthropes as your vampiric Underworld D&D clone you have to be a freaking wolf-woman thing. Ironic huh? I don't fix what aint broke (allowing players to chose subtypes in leui of types) but this is clearly broke.

What does this complete? This allows every single creature to be vulnerable to the build's precision damage via swift hunter. Throw in the Hinder feat and you can (eventually) reduce any creature's base land speed down to 5 feet! Have your party caster throw down a dimensional anchor type spell to bar any plane shifting or teleporting, also he should be ready dispel any gaseous forming or other craziness.[/Spoiler]

Feats:[Spoiler]
Magical Artisan (for max skirmish)
Precocious Apprentice (for max skirmish)
Extra Slot (for max skirmish)
Extra Spell (for max skirmish)
Swift Avenger [DragMag357] (for max skirmish]
Dragontouched (for dragon devotee)
Swift Hunter
Improved Skirmish
Acrobatic Skirmisher [DragMag346 86]
Improved Acrobatic Skirmisher [DragMag346 86]

For shits and giggles (See my prereq handbook for plenty of ways to get more DCFS-able bonus feats):
Extra Favored Enemy
Hinder [DragMag344 103]
TWF (max skirmish build)
Greater TWF
Power Attack
Favored Power Attack
Get your DM to look at Unorthodox Flurry if you want to skirmish with something better than a quarterstaff[/Spoiler]

Skirmish Damage:
[spoiler]Skirmish:   1d6/1AC Scout
   +1d6 Swift Hunter & Swift Avenger for Pseudo Scout 5
Move 20'   +2d6 Improved Skirmish
Proc AoO   +1d6 Acrobatic Skirmisher [DragMag346 86] (Tumble5)
   +1d6 Improved Acrobatic Skirmisher [DragMag346 86] (Tumble10)
   +1d6 Halfling Monk 1
   +1d6 Hands of the Winged Master
   +2d6 Dragon Devotee
   +1d6 Highland Stalker
   +3d6 Unseen Seer
   +10d6 from DMM-swapped enhanced wildshape (we wildshape thanks to buying a Wildshape Amulet) as a Hound of the Hunt MMV 202 via tainted druid feat thanks to being necropolitan
=   24d6[/spoiler]



I didn't reserve enough posts for separate builds and stuff:[spoiler]
Reserved for Build 12 [Action-Gaining Abuse]
Reserved for Build 13 [The Annoying White Mage Who Won't Die]
Reserved for Build 14 [Exactly as much strength as he can shake a stick with]
Reserved for Build 15 [Summoning Abuse]
Reserved for Build 16 [The Crazy Critter] ... and no if you click him too much he doesn't explode.
Reserved for Build 17 [Illithid Savant Abuse FTW]


Base ClassSchoolArcane / Divine
ArchivistEvocationDivine
BeguilerEnchantmentArcane
ClericTransmutation and UniversalDivine
Dread NecromancerNecromancyArcane
DruidConjuration except (healing)Divine
Favored SoulsEnchantmentDivine
HealerAll Conjuration (healing)Arcane and Divine
MysticDivination and NecromancyDivine
ShamanIllusionDivine
ShugenjaDivination and IllusionArcane
Spirit shamanAbjurationDivine
SorcererConjuration except (healing)Arcane
WarmageEvocationArcane
WizardAbjuration and UniversalArcane
Wu-jenTransmutationArcane

This of course limits Advanced learning and the like.[/spoiler]


two forms, single [INFO] posts without the need for addition or discussion.
(usually) multiple [COMPEDIUM] posts with the need only for addition and little discussion.
[spoiler]
compare:
Thread resource: -Optimized Races Niche Compendium
vs
Random thread: -Races handbook
vs
Handbook on choices.

In short. If its a thread about a class or class feature type (aka mounts, healing, fear) (or less likely, feats), its a handbook. If its a listing objective enough to not be mostly about back and forth (sorry tier threads), its a regular thread. If its compiled information for others to parouse but not the above two, its probably an index or compedium. I should mention that good ideas that are too random to get off the ground don't count.


Temporary subforum dump:
    
Illithid Savant Information
List of Persistable Arcane spells up to 9th level by Bill Bisco: Eloquent Elf

-The Archery Handbook by carnivore and transported here by Eldariel.
Free D&D:
-A guide to free D&D by Dictum Mortuum. More of the same, more up-to-date by Garryl.
Healing:
-A Player's Guide to (3.5) Healing (And, why you don't need a cleric to heal) by OneWinged4angel.
Initiative:
Init math and matchups OR helping you find the desired init advantage by Sunic_Flames.
Lycantropy:
-The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide by Nanshork
Races:
-Optimized Races Niche Compendium by PlzBreakMyCampaign
Summoning:
-"Iconic" Summoning Handbook - Needs Your Input! by Faithless tbe Wonder Boy.

-3.5 Forms for Alter Self by PhaedrusXY.
-Alternative Class Features by Surreal.
-alternative ways to get new class skills by Griff and transported here by Surreal.
-Bunko's Bargain Basement Reopened by Caelic.
-Collection of Necromantic oddities by snizor.
-dragon PC races by Surreal.
-Equivalent bonuses list by Prime32.
-Getting the most out of the Chain Spell feat by PhaedrusXY.
-Getting the most out of your familiar by PhaedrusXY.
-How to shove it to beatsticks - A caster resource for not getting hit by Tshern.
-List of Save-or-be-Screwed Spells [PHB, SpC, FrB, SnS, BoED, CM, PH2] by Cube.
-Mechonomicon by snizor.
-Monster Finder
-Naberius: sacking your stats for fun and profit by Surreal
-Optimization by the numbers by Tleilaxu_Ghola and transported here by Sunic_Flames.
-Player Race List with LA +1 and LA +2 by cru.
-Polymorph, Wild Shape and Shapechange, oh my! (comparison charts) by Surreal.
-The Utility Belt; or what you should be wearing around your waist by dark_samuari.
-Useful Dragon Magazine Stuff by Suzerain
-Wanderer's diplomacy optimization by pfooti.
-X Stat to Y Bonus at GitP

Sure:
Guide to Free DnD
Planetouched Races
Cursed Items
Small list of SoD's
Alternate Class Features
Ability Damage Resource
Monsters with Innate Spellcasting
Ways to Expand spell list Obsolete like the healing handbook via items or the immortality handbook (Kissed By the Ages drag mag 354)
Alternate Ways to Get Class Skills

to repost:
Variant Chaining
Affiliations list

to get cleaned up:
alter self forms

wait for debate to finish:
Antimagic
Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 10:20:00 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

Heliomance

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
    • Email
Re: PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2008, 01:20:05 PM »
The Hulking Hurler does more damage than build 1 and doesn't use any infinite damage loops, extra actions, or marilith mind switching.

edit: I am a kindergardener who can't read. You said melee only. Too bad I can't edit my own posts in someone's BC b/c I'm too lazy
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 04:01:38 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »

Tshern

  • Clown Prince of Crime
  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5726
  • Aistii valoa auttavasti
    • Email
Re: PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2008, 01:33:43 PM »
Was the maximum sneak attack thingee supposed to ignore all the tasty spells? Consumptive field+Hunter's eye would give plenty of dice.

Handy Links

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2008, 02:22:21 AM »
I always found the weight -> damage thing to just make no sense. At a certain point I feel it should be a massive damage save and leave it at that. If you think about it that is exactly what having more weight than a house land on you does. Either you get splatted would you take some damage and live. More weight just doesn't make that much sense.... I don't know perhaps by RAW it still doesn't require too much cheese but I never like the consequences of that damned little rule sidebar or whatever. It needs a cap  :banghead

Oh and I was having the max SA build not use caster-level boosting effects. We all know consumptive field is more broken than even shapechange... If your DM is down with consumptive field then I just feel sorry for you! He would the kind of mean personally to seriously use CoDzilla on your ass. Not that throwing over 30d6 SA for each hit doesn't but at least the mechanic is easily countered (and not by undead or constructs thanks to rogue-friendly items).
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

Negative Zero

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1532
    • Email
Re: PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2008, 02:38:11 AM »
I don't think it's fair to say that getting hit by a house is the same as getting hit by the moon. Bigger things hurt more, even if it is greatly in excess of your total HP.

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2008, 03:08:21 AM »
What we are talking about here is force and impulse. All I am saying is density and surface tension do make a difference and the rule is too simple. I consider the Hulking Hurler to be more of a rule exploitation than a 'I am more awesome fighting than you.'
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

Heliomance

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
    • Email
Re: PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2008, 09:25:27 PM »
If you drop a house, other than you now being the proud owner of a pile of rubble and whatever was underneath being squished, there won't be much effect.

If you drop the moon, there will be major seismic consequences - earthquakes, dust clouds, etc. This is because dropping the moon does enough damage to take a significant amount of the planet's HP off. Dropping a house doesn't. Hence, damage from weight is uncapped.

BowenSilverclaw

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5337
  • Walking that fine line between genius and insanity
    • Email
Re: PlzBreakMyCampaign's Thread and Build Compilation
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2008, 07:08:50 AM »
I'm a troll
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 05:11:36 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

Quote from: J0lt
You caught a fish.  It was awesome.   :lol