dragon PC races

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Could you add in the orange, purple, and yellow dragons from Dragon Compendium?  They have kinda weird breath weapons.

[Surreal]

You'll have to list all the relevant stats for me since I don't have the compendium.

[Mushroom]

You'll have to list all the relevant stats for me since I don't have the compendium.

Orange: 5 HD 2 LA Small
Purple:7 HD 4 LA Medium
Yellow:3 HD 2 LA Tiny

Orange: Shoots some kind of goopey substance that explodes after 2 rounds 2d10(reflex save 13 to negate) 1d6 round recharge
Purple:3 forms: 2d10 Cone(15 save) +30 ft blinding burst(15 fort save)+Something akin to an eldritch glaive breath weapon(only does half damage)
Yellow: Blasts opponents with salt, every time they fail a save against it -2 on attack, AC, reflex, and str dex con skill checks + -10 on movement speed(hitting zero means they can't move)

[The_Mad_Linguist]

They aren't the best, really, but they're weird enough that I think they're worth noting

Wyrmling Orange dragon (small)
5 HD 3 LA, poison immunity, water breathing, 100 ft average fly, 40' swim.
Weird line of delayed exploding spit breath weapon.  Initially fires in a line with a save, then two round later explodes in a 15' burst with no save for those covered in it.

Wyrmling Purple dragon (medium)
7 HD, 4 LA, 150' fly (poor), 20' burrow

Three-in-one breath weapon.  Can either be a cone of "pure energy", a flash with a fort save vs. permanent blindness, or an additional melee weapon that is used to make touch attacks (and can be used with all other physical attacks... a loose reading would allow you to wield weapons and get an additional set of iteratives).

Wyrmling Yellow Dragon (tiny)
3 HD, +2 LA, land 20, 150' fly (good), burrow 20, swim 80 (wingless)
Waterbreathing, +2 bonus on attacks while in the air
Breath weapon is a cone of salt, which on a failed save gives penalties to attacks, AC, reflex saves, physical skill checks and speeds, which explicitly stack with themselves.


Of them, I think Yellow is probably the most useful (good movement, and a decent debuff breath weapon).

EDIT: Dang, ninjaed

[Mushroom]

=
EDIT: Dang, ninjaed

Horrus ninjaed the whole Imperium, don't feel bad

[The_Mad_Linguist]

EDIT: nevermind

[Brainpiercing]

The Yellow Wyrmling does sound quite useful. IMHO quite a bit more useful than the puny 1d6 energy breath weapons the other wyrmlings get.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

So aside from that ambush drake "Template Class" (whatever that is...) there are no LA+1 dragons races? (don't say dragonwraughts...)

[Surreal]

I think +2 is the best we've got.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

So aside from that ambush drake "Template Class" (whatever that is...) there are no LA+1 dragons races? (don't say dragonwraughts...)

It's like the ghost savage progression (which is technically also a 'template class'), except you explicitly can't multiclass out of it.

Which sucks.

[Endarire]

Can I polymorph into a dragon and gain these sovereign archetypes?

[SorO_Lost]

I went this long without seeing the thread?

Here is my list, its lacking the class skills of each dragon but longer and more detailed

Code: [Select]

All dragons have
d12s for HD, all good saves, six skill points per level.
Class Skills: Concentration, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Listen, Knowledge (any), Search, Sense Motive, Spot, and Use Magic Device.
Senses: blindsense 60, keen senses (see x4 in darkness and x2 in light), darkvision 120ft.
A bite attack (1d4 for tiny, 1d6 for small) with reach.
And two claw attacks (1d3 for tiny, 1d4 for small)
Breath weapon save DCs are 10 + 1/2 HD + con

Amphi (3e, dragonlance, beastiary of kynn)
Stats: 1HD/2LA, Tiny
Adjustments: -2 str
Natural AC: +1
Speed: land 20ft, burrow 10ft, swim 60ft
Breath: line of acid, 1d6
Qualities: amphibious, immunity to acid, improved grab, swallow whole

Aquatic (3e, dragonlance, beastiary of kynn)
Stats: 3HD/3LA, Tiny
Adjustments: +2 dex/con/int/cha, +4 wis
Natural AC: +3
Speed: land 20ft, swim 40ft
Breath: out of water; cone of cold 1d6 & in water; cone of slow cloud, cloud lasts 1d6 minutes and the effect lasts for 1d6+1 rounds
Qualities: alternate form, continual flame, immunity to acid and cold, vulnerable to fire, waterbreathing

Battle (draconomicon)
Stats: 5HD/2LA, Tiny
Adjustments: +2 str/cha, +4 con
Natural AC: +5
Speed: land 40ft, fly 100ft (average)
Breath: cone of sonic energy, 2d6 & cone of fear (shakens), 4d6 rounds.
Qualities: immunity to sonic

Black (mm/srd)
Stats: 4HD/3LA, Tiny
Adjustments: -2 int/cha, +2 con
Natural AC: +3
Speed: land 60ft, fly 100ft (average)
Breath: line of acid, 2d4
Qualities: Immune to acid, water breathing

Blue (mm/srd)
Stats: 6HD/4LA, Small
Adjustments: +2 str/con
Natural AC: +5
Speed: land 40ft. burrow 20ft, fly 100 (average)
Breath: line of lightning, 2d8
Qualities: immunity to electricity, create/destroy water 3/day

Brass (mm/srd)
Stats: 4HD/2LA, Tiny
Adjustments: +2 con
Natural AC: +3
Speed: land 60ft, burrow 30ft, fly 150 (average)
Breath: line of fire, 1d6 & cone of sleep, 1d6+1 rounds.
Qualities: immunity to fire, speak with animals (at will), vulnerability to cold

Bronze (mm/srd)
Stats: 6HD/LA4, Small
Adjustments: +2 str/con, +4 int/wis/cha
Natural AC: +5
Speed: land 40ft, fly 100ft (average)
Breath: line of lightning, 2d6 & cone of repulsion (can only move away), 1d6+1 rounds
Qualities: immunity to electricity, water breathing, speak with animals

Brown (3e/3.5, forgotten realms, monsters of faerun)
Stats: 6HD/2LA, Medium
Adjustments: +2 int/wis/cha, +4 str/con
Natural AC: +3
Speed: land 60ft, burrow 60ft
Breath: line of acid, 2d6
Qualities: acid immunity, tremorsense

Copper (mm/srd)
Stats: 5HD/2LA, Tiny
Adjustments: +2 con/int/wis/cha
Natural AC: +4
Speed: land 40ft, fly 100ft (average)
Breath: line of acid, 2d4 & cone of slow gas, 1d6+1 rounds.
Qualities: immunity to acid, spider climb

Chaos (draconomicon)
Stats: 6HD/4LA, Small
Adjustments: +2 int, +4 con/wis, +6 cha
Natural AC: +5
Speed: land 60ft, fly 150ft (average)
Breath: line of energy (random prime type), 2d4 & cone of confusion, 1d6+1 rounds.
Qualities: immunity to compulsion effects

Deep (3e/3.5, forgotten realms, monsters of faerun)
Stats: 6HD/4LA, Tiny
Adjustments: +2 con/wis/cha, +4 int
Natural AC: +5
Speed: land 40ft, fly 100ft (average)
Breath: cone of acid, 2d8
Qualities: true seeing, detect magic, charm immunity, cold and fire resistance 10

Ethereal (draconomicon)
Stats: 4HD/2LA, Tiny
Adjustments: -2 str, +2 con/wis
Natural AC: +3
Speed: land 60ft, fly 60ft (poor)
Breath: cone of force, 2d6
Qualities: immune to ether cyclones

Fire (3e, dragonlance, beastiary of kynn)
Stats: 4HD/4LA, Medium
Adjustments: -4 int/wis/cha, +4 str/con
Natural AC: +3
Speed: land 40ft, fly 150ft (poor), burrow 20ft
Breath: cone of fire, 2d6 burns for 1d4 fire damage per round till they save (-1 DC per round)
Qualities: heat, immunity to fire, vulnerability to cold

Frost (3e, dragonlance, beastiary of kynn)
Stats: 5HD/5LA, Small
Adjustments: -2 int, +2 str/con
Natural AC: +3
Speed: land 40ft, fly 100ft (average), burrow 20ft
Breath: cone of cold, 2d6 also breath deals 1 cha damage a seperate save negs
Qualities: leewalking, immunity to cold, vulnerability to fire

Gold (mm/srd)
Stats: 8HD/4LA, Medium
Adjustments: +4 con/int/wis/cha, +6 str.
Natural AC: +7
Speed: land 60ft, fly 200ft (poor), swim 60ft
Breath: cone of fire, 2d10 & cone of weakening gas, 1 str damage
Qualities: alternate form, immunity to fire, vulnerability to cold, water breathing

Gray (3e, dragonlance, beastiary of kynn)
Stats: 3HD/LA2, Tiny
Adjustments: -2 str/cha
Natural AC: +2
Speed: land 60ft, burrow 30ft, fly 150ft (average), swim 60ft
Breath: cone of cold, 1d6
Qualities: icewalking, immunity to cold, vulnerability to fire

Green (mm/srd)
Stats: 5HD/5LA, Small
Adjustments: +2 str/con
Natural AC: +4
Speed: land 4ft. fly 100ft (average)
Breath: cone of acid, 2d6
Qualities: immunity to acid, water breathing

Howling (draconomicon)
Stats: 9HD/4LA, Medium
Adjustments: -2 wis, +4 con/int/cha, +6 str
Natural AC: +8
Speed: land 60ft, fly 100ft (average)
Breath: cone of sonic, 2d10 & cone of maddening wails, 1 wisdom damage. Both are limited to 10ft range.
Qualities: immunity to sonic, Frightful Presence, SR 15

Mercury (forgotten realms, dragons of faerun)
Stats: 3HD/2LA, Tiny
Adjustments: +2 con, +4 dex
Natural AC: +2
Speed: land 60ft, fly 200ft (perfect)
Breath: ine of fire, 1d8
Qualities: immunity to fire, vulnerability to cold, protected sight

Mist (forgotten realms, dragons of faerun)
Stats: 3HD/2LA, Tiny
Adjustments: +2 con
Natural AC: +2
Speed: land 40ft, fly 100ft (average)
Breath: cone of fire, 2d6 & line of slime, sickens 1d6+1 rounds
Qualities: immunity to acid and fire, mist form(allowed to cast as a mist)

Oceanus (draconomicon)
Stats: 7HD/4LA, Small
Adjustments: +4 str/con/int/cha
Natural AC: +7
Speed: land 40ft, fly 100ft (average), swim 60ft
Breath: line of lightning, 2d8 & cone of tranquility (dazes), 1d6+1 rounds
Qualities: amphibious, immunity to electricity

Pyroclastic (draconomicon)
Stats: 7HD/4LA, Medium
Adjustments: +4 con, +6 str
Natural AC: +6
Speed: land 60ft, fly 100ft (poor), climb 40ft, burrow 45ft
Breath: cone of fire/sonic, 2d6 & disintegrating line (save or die)
Qualities: immunity to fire and sonic, Frightful Presence, SR 14

Radiant (draconomicon)
Stats: 9HD/4LA, Medium
Adjustments: +4 dex/con/int, +6 str/wis/cha
Natural AC: +5
Speed: land 60ft, fly 150ft (average)
Breath: line of force, 2d10 & cone of light (blinds), 1d6+1 rounds
Qualities: immunity to light effects

Rattelyr (3e, forgotten realms, shining south)
Stats: 2Hd/2LA, Tiny
Adjustments: -2 cha, +2 con
Natural AC: +2
Speed: land 60ft, burrow 30ft
Breath: cone of fire, 1d6
Qualities: resistance to electricity 20, immunity to fire, rattle, tremorsense 60ft

Red (mm/srd)
Stats: 7HD/4LA, Medium
Adjustments: +4 con, +6 str
Natural AC: +6
Speed: land 40ft, fly 150 (poor)
Breath: cone of fire, 2d10
Qualities: immunity to fire, vulnerability to cold

Rust (draconomicon)
Stats: 6HD/4LA, Small
Adjustments: -4 int/cha, +2 str/con
Natural AC: +6
Speed: land 60ft, fly 100ft (average), burrow 45ft.
Breath: line of acid, 2d4 & cone of rust (destroys metal)
Qualities: metal resistance (dr 5/magic or non-metal), rusting bite, SR 13

Sand (3e, sandstorm)
Stats: 3HD/2LA, Tiny
Adjustments: none
Natural AC: +4
Speed: land 30ft, burrow 20ft, fly 80ft (average)
Breath: cone of dust, 1d4
Qualities: immunity to fire, tremorsense 60 ft.

Shadow (draconomicon)
Stats: 4Hd/3LA, Tiny
Adjustments: +2 con, +4 int/wis/cha
Natural AC: +7
Speed: land 80ft, fly 150ft (average)
Breath: cone of energy drain, 1 negative level
Qualities: energy drain immunity, SR 12

Silver (mm/srd)
Stats: 7HD/4LA, Small
Adjustments: +2 str/con, +4 int/wis/cha
Natural AC: +6
Speed: land 40ft, fly 100ft (average)
Breath: cone of cold, 2d8 & cone of paralyzing gas, 1d6+1 rounds.
Qualities: alternate form, immunity to acid and cold, cloudwalking, vulnerability to fire

Song (3e/3.5, forgotten realms, monsters of faerun)
Stats: 5HD/5LA, Tiny
Adjustments: -2 str, +2con, +4 int/wis, +6 cha
Natural AC: +4
Speed: land 40ft, fly 150ft (average)
Breath: cone of electricity, 2d6
Qualities: change shape, true seeing, tongues, light, darkness, electricity and poison immunity

Steel (forgotten realms, dragons of faerun)
Stats: 4HD/2LA, Small
Adjustments: +2 con/cha
Natural AC: +3
Speed: land 60ft, fly 150ft (average), swim 30ft
Breath: line of acid, 1d6 & cone of poison, 1 con damage then 1 min later again.
Qualities: alternate form, immunity to acid, SR 16, spells; sorcerer 1st + knowledge & trickery

Styx (draconomicon)
Stats: 5HD/5LA, Small
Adjustments: +2 str/con
Natural AC: 4
Speed: land 60ft, swim 60ft, burrow 20ft.
Breath: line of acid, 1d6 (persists for 3 rounds) & cone of stupefying, 1 int damage
Qualities: amphibious, constrict, improved grab, immunity to poison and disease, Styx adaptation, SR 13

Tarterian (draconomicon)
Stats: 8HD/4LA, Medium
Adjustments: +4 con/int/wis/cha, +3 str
Natural AC: +7
Speed: land 60ft, fly 150ft (poor)
Breath: line of force, 2d8 &  cone of will-sapping, –2 saves/attack/ability/skill/damage rolls for 1 round.
Qualities: force resistance, strength of will, freedom of movement, Frightful Presence, SR 15

White (mm/srd)
Stats: 3HD/LA2, Tiny
Adjustments: -4 int/cha, +2 con
Natural AC: +2
Speed: land 60ft, burrow 30ft, fly 150ft (average), swim 60ft
Breath: cone of cold, 1d6
Qualities: icewalking, immunity to cold, vulnerability to fireFor the record, the Steel Dragon is the greatest dragon ever made.

Also, Ambush Drake, Farie Dragon, etc. are not true dragons. I wouldn't touch them with an elven foot pole.

[Endarire]

Why is a steel dragon so uber?

[SorO_Lost]

Why is a steel dragon so uber?

Personal preference mostly.

Take the CharOp favored Mist dragon. You give up 50ft of speed but still have 150. In return you get to take one more dragon racial hit dice than the mist (since you cannot PrC out yet) which has better bab/saves/skills/hd than the sorcerer class and trade the worthless gaseous form ability to an infinite duration shapechange into a humanoid ability five times per day.

Of course LA is free after buy off which puts it above all the rest save for a select few. *shudders at the mention of the white dragon and it's horrible mental penalties*

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Oh, and I guess at some point the OA dragons need to be added as well...


And more HD = worse buyoff, which is a consideration.

[SorO_Lost]

And more HD = worse buyoff, which is a consideration.

Which is a point of why Steel is so awesome. The Steel is an exception.
btw correction to my self, it's the mist dragon that has the gaseous form. My bad.

Loredrake Mercury Dragon Sorcerer 1: ECL 6 (4hd, 2la). Casts as a 3rd level caster.
3d10+1d4 (23.5 hp), 3/3/5 saves, 38 skill points, +2 con & +4 dex.
Fly 200 (perfect), takes +50% from cold spells, is tiny (-8 to most opposed checks).
Immune to stuff that would blind or dazzle it and +3 on saves vs light or pattern effects and immunity to fire.

Loredrake Steel Dragon: ECL 6 (4hd, 2la). Casts as a 3rd level caster.
4d10 (26.5 hp), 4/4/4 saves, 42 skill points, +2 con & cha.
Fly 150 (average, no hover), is small (only -4 to most opposed checks).
+10 save bonus against poison, immune to acid, spell resistance 16, 5/day change into any animal/humanoid with no duration.


The Steel has a hair bit more hp/save/skill points than the Mercury since it didn't have to take that level in sorcerer to achieve the same spellcasting ability. No elemental deals extra damage to it and it's already packing spell resistance equal to it's ECL+10, this will be out scaled but for now it's nice. It has a racial bonus to it's primary casting stat too which is always better than +4 in a secondary stat.

The icing on the cake is probably it's alternate form ability is polymorph only limited to humanoids and animals. Steel dragons are already masters of disguise without a single rank in the skill and are capable of trading their flight for even higher physical abilities. Mercury won't have alter Self till next level and thats capped at 5HD so it has to wait until ECL 11 to get around it, by then the Steel was changing into 10HD creatures a level ago.

Finally, consider that paying a druid 10,450gp for Mantle Of The Icy Soul & 11,360gp for Mantle Of The Fiery Spirit granting both dragons full immunity to both fire & cold. In which case the steel dragon's acid immunity truly pulls out ahead as it is an immunity you cannot simply buy with chump change later on.

And so I consider the Steel Dragon in every way superior to the CharOp favored Mercury Dragon. In open spaces flying in a circle works every bit as good as the ability to hover and 150ft is plenty to out distance virtually any land creature so snipping 50ft of speed is perfectly practical.

***

The OA dragons lack LA entries in the OA book. Perhaps another book updated them kinda like Dragon's of Faerun added LA to some of the 3E Faerunian dragons?

[The_Mad_Linguist]

What dragon isn't going to take a level of singer of concordance instead of a level of sorcerer?

Automatic qualification is sweet.

[Surreal]

Oh, and I guess at some point the OA dragons need to be added as well...

Maybe I failed my spot check, but I don't see any LA listed for them...

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Hmm... maybe I'm confusing them with the OA nagas? 

[SorO_Lost]

What dragon isn't going to take a level of singer of concordance instead of a level of sorcerer?

Automatic qualification is sweet.

Both of them.

Entry Requirements
Subtype: Dragonblood.
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 3rd-level divine spells. (loredrake gives up divine spells & 3rd level of sorcerer give 1st level of spells not 3rd)
Skills: Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks. (lacks 5hd)
Deity: Io.

Are you thinking of a different PrC? What one?