Author Topic: Best melee class  (Read 9532 times)

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Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2008, 05:21:31 PM »
If by "melee class" you mean fighter, ranger, etc, i think that the best is crusader. Warblade comes a close second probably.
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woodenbandman

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2008, 01:01:49 AM »
I'm going to go out on a limb and ask how in the hell an Archivist gets all Sorc/Wiz spells on his list.

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2008, 02:23:42 AM »
I'm going to go out on a limb and ask how in the hell an Archivist gets all Sorc/Wiz spells on his list.
Are you serious?... through scrolls...
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JaronK

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2008, 05:07:15 AM »
I'm going to go out on a limb and ask how in the hell an Archivist gets all Sorc/Wiz spells on his list.

Short and simple:  for an Archivist to get a spell, it has to exist as a divine spell somewhere and he has to get access to it.  The second part is trivially easy, since divine casters can research spells and you always succeed if you research a duplicate of an existing spell (it becomes DM fiat if it's not an exact duplicate).  So all he has to do is show that divine versions of all Sorc/Wiz spells exist.

The easiest way is the Hexer PrC, a PrC that can be entered through Cleric and which puts any spell off the Sorc/Wiz list on your list as a native spell to your list.  That gets them all... but it's 3.0.  Another way is the varient Favored Soul from Dragon Magic which lets you add any 6th level or lower Wiz/Sor spell to your spells known as a divine spell, combined with the Divine Magician ACF from Complete Mage for Clerics which adds any Wiz/Sor spell of any level from one of a few schools to your list as divine spells, plus the various domain spells.  Now add in Shugenjas.  That combination will give you any Sor/Wiz spell you might every have wanted, just about. 

By the way, Archivists get the whole Bard list via the Divine Bard varient from UA.

In the end, the only spells Archivists can't get are Greater Harm (the only Dread Necromancer only spell, but it's a dud), a few spells off the Trapsmith list (they can get them, but at much higher levels), some Assassin and Hexblade only spells, and a couple Wu Jen spells (but the good ones of those are mostly on domain lists anyway).  Everything else is fair game.

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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2008, 10:25:28 AM »
*points up*

What he said :)
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RobbyPants

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2008, 12:13:04 PM »
And on the off chance the DM doesn't allow research, a 12th level warlock can scibe any scroll as arcane or divine.
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JaronK

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2008, 10:58:37 PM »
Yeah, that works as well, if you can get said Warlock.  Luckily, you're a class with tons of teleportation and knowledge abilities... as long as there's some Warlock 12 in the world who might help you, you can probably locate him! 

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RobbyPants

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2008, 11:08:10 PM »
I suppose Leadership is always an option...
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Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
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JaronK

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2008, 11:15:54 PM »
And finding a Warlock, charming/dominating him into giving you Animate Dread Warrior, killing him, and reanimating him as your loyal minion... that works too, if existing Warlocks aren't being helpful.  Saves a feat, plus he doesn't breathe so you can stick him in a portable hole and make him get to work.

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woodenbandman

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2008, 11:30:07 PM »
Ah I see. Well if that's the case then Wizards can do the exact same thing, and spell lists are meaningless :p

JaronK

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2008, 11:33:21 PM »
No, they can't.  They don't have the arbitrary ability to have any arcane spell... just Wizard spells.  If they tried to research a Wizard version of a divine spell, it would not be a duplicate spell since there's now a difference (the caster type), so it becomes totally DM fiat.

The thing about Archivists is that they get any divine spell, instead of their own list.  No one else has that, except Artificers in a way.

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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2008, 11:47:02 PM »
I'm surprised that nobody's said factotum yet. Given that at higher levels you can get a full 15 levels of anybody's Ex abilities (including spellcasting and fighter bonus feats), and that they can switch things up at will...

Granted, I'd probably have to agree with The Big Five being the best melee classes around. They're the best at EVERYTHING.

Also: Does Pun-Pun count as a class?  :D
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 11:50:54 PM by Lycanthromancer »
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2008, 12:20:58 AM »
The thing about Archivists is that they get any divine spell, instead of their own list.  No one else has that, except Artificers in a way.

JaronK
And chameleons.  Well, any spell that's on a divine class list, which sadly excludes domains.  Of course, chameleons don't have to hunt down scrolls for their divine spells.

Hmm... I'm sure there exists some sort of shenanigan you could pull with chameleon to get 9th level spells.
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JaronK

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2008, 12:32:49 AM »
I'm surprised that nobody's said factotum yet. Given that at higher levels you can get a full 15 levels of anybody's Ex abilities (including spellcasting and fighter bonus feats), and that they can switch things up at will...

Actually, the ability has to start before level 15, but you get it as a 19-20th level version of the class, so you do gain full spellcasting.  The issue is that you don't get this ability until level 19, so it's not going to help most levels.  Plus, it doesn't last very long (though with long duration buffs, you could get a lot out of it to be sure).

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Ubernoob

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2008, 12:42:10 AM »
It only lasts a minute, which means that you can't actually prepare spells or regain spell slots.  As written, you can get spellcasting, but not long enough to actually get spells to cast.
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2008, 02:35:44 AM »
See: Sorcerer/Psion/Psychic Warrior
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
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Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
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Ubernoob

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2008, 02:37:40 AM »
Edit: I'm on crack.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2008, 02:58:09 AM by Ubernoob »
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2008, 02:52:24 AM »
I was thinking of spontaneous full-casters that the factotum could emulate, actually.

(Also, are you quoting the right message? AKA, what are you responding to?)
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Ubernoob

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2008, 02:59:02 AM »
I was thinking of spontaneous full-casters that the factotum could emulate, actually.

(Also, are you quoting the right message? AKA, what are you responding to?)
Actually, I'm just fricking insane.
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JaronK

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Re: Best melee class
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2008, 03:16:03 AM »
It only lasts a minute, which means that you can't actually prepare spells or regain spell slots.  As written, you can get spellcasting, but not long enough to actually get spells to cast.

Spontaneous casting works fine though, because if you check you'll find that they only have to spend 15 minutes to recover used slots.  Since none of your slots are used (you just gained the ability) that's a non issue.

As such, you can gain Sorcerer, Dread Necromancer, Beguiler, Favored Soul, Warmage, or a few other types of casting without problems.  You just can't get Cleric, Druid, Wizard, or Archivist casting, but your other options are plenty... and since you pick your spells known that day, Sorcerer or Favored Soul casting is actually better than Wizard or Cleric casting for purposes of this ability.  Really, it's only the Druid spells that are missing.

But again, this ability doesn't turn up until level 19, so it's only a factor in very high level games.

JaronK