Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge

[Ubernoob]

Open up MIC.  You can't make two attacks with a single raptor arrow in a round.  Learn to read.

did you actually look at what i posted..... i made only 1 attack with a raptor Arrow per round.... the other attacks were with Razorfeather Arrows... the damage shows it... did you even look?


if Tshern runs it, he will probably use an Online Dice rolling system .... he could use Average Damage also... i dont care which is used

 

Ignoring the fact that you don't understand weighted averages, you're still wrong on your stats.  Warforged scouts are small sized so your numbers are off.  Your raptor arrow no longer attacks more than once a round, so that's fixed, but fix the rest of your numbers before I give my full critique.

[Lycanthromancer]

Instead of arena-type proceedings, why not have everybody post a build or two at levels 1, 6, 12, and 18 (or some other spread) based on whatever guidelines, and then judge it on several criteria, such as stamina, damage on a single and full attack, ability to handle various in- and out-of-battle situations, flexibility, and so on?

It'd be much more productive than seeing who-can-kill-whom the fastest, and we still get to make builds and test our mettle. Carnivore (and whomever else wants to do so) can make the fighter builds, and others can make the psychic warrior builds (single-classed only; no multiclassing, PrCs, or variants).

Maybe have a few different roles each build is supposed to simultaneously fill.

That would be far better than who-can-kill-whom, and it wouldn't all boil down to who gets the higher initiative.

Your build has to be centered around your class, so taking, say, cross-class ranks in a bunch of skills doesn't count (though if you can use one of your class abilities (but not a generic feat) to turn a cross-class skill into a class skill, that'd be okay).

[edit] Also, since psychic warriors have class abilities - namely, manifesting - that can be used with single-use items (ie, power stones), it's stupid to leave them out of the competition. You just can't rely on anything that your class doesn't assist with (such as potions) because it's not your class doing it. The fact that it screws over fighters is beside the point (in fact, it helps showcase one of the reasons fighters fail, which is a perfectly valid point, Carnivore, whether you want to skew the numbers or not).

[Ubernoob]

Couldn't we just use the same game test?  It's much more accurate.

[Lycanthromancer]

Also, buffs should be limited to those that last 1 hour or more; those that last less than that can't really be relied on, but longer buffs should be allowed because they can always be up, if you know your stuff.

[woodenbandman]

Hey, how about we do the ultimate test: A party of each class goes through a number of challenges requiring different skill sets. There's a melee charger, a lockdown, a ranged specialist, and a sneaker, all alternate class features available, no holds barred.

[Negative Zero]

That sounds cool, even if it is a massive amount of work.

[carnivore]

having separate categories of builds is fine as well, i would suggest this:

melee charger
Battlefield Control
a ranged specialist
Anti Caster/Mage Slayer

since both classes are designed for Combat

 

[woodenbandman]

Everyone knows that fighter makes a decent archer.

[Ubernoob]

having separate categories of builds is fine as well, i would suggest this:

melee charger
Battlefield Control
a ranged specialist
Anti Caster/Mage Slayer

since both classes are designed for Combat

 

Let's skip those categories and get some categories that are contested.  Reasoning:
melee charger-Goes to PW due to pounce
Battlefield Control-Goes to PW due to expansion
a ranged specialist-Goes to clerics and scouts because both are incompetent.
Anti Caster/Mage Slayer-Goes to casters because both are incompetent

So, I'm all for this, but we need to get categories that are actually contested.  Anybody got any, because I don't have any.

[woodenbandman]

At low levels I might be inclined to give the charger to the fighter due to the mounted feats (although once you put psionic weapon and such in then the Psywar probably wins)

[emaNsdrawkcaB]

Wizard 20 / Druid 10 / Geomancer 10 - character could cast any divine spell he knows as arcane spell...

But what I'm saying is that Geomancer, unlike the Southern Magician feat, only switches up the parameters of casting a spell. Geomancer only changes the parameters of casting a spell, and which casting stat or material focus you use doesn't matter, it's still a spell from the same spell slot. But I see your point and my argument isn't really important because there are other ways to make any divine spell arcane, i.e. Southern Magician, so you'd be able in any case.

[Lycanthromancer]

Why don't we see who does best at the most useful tricks with a middling-high level build (say, 12).

How does your build fare with the following criteria:

Melee
Ranged
Resisting melee tricks (tripping, attacks of opportunity, being disarmed, etc)
Battlefield control
Traps
Protecting more fragile party members and wards under your protection
Endurance
Stealth
Assassinations
Ambush
Dealing with hostile magic users (both caster-killer and otherwise)
Fliers
Groundbound maneuverability
Extremely hostile/rough terrain (such as fighting on a cliff-side, or in a volcano, or on other planes)
Cramped spaces (ie, in dungeons designed around Small creatures)
Antimagic fields
Invisibility
Mind-control (dominate monster/charm monster/suggestion, etc)
Huge and Gargantuan-sized creatures (ie, super-high Str, lots of Con, very difficult to use standard feat-based maneuvers on)
Creatures with super-high AC (can only hit on a Nat 20) and tons of hit points
Very large groups of low-level mooks
Swarms
Creatures with very high DR
Creatures with very high saves
Creatures with very high spell resistance
Social situations

...And any other situations you think might come into play frequently enough to be an issue.

Sound okay?

[carnivore]

that sounds good.... just provide 3 monsters (CR 12) for each trick to test the PW or Fighters with

 

[Midnight_v]

that sounds good.... just provide 3 monsters (CR 12) for each trick to test the PW or Fighters with

 

Uhmm... add flaws to your build for our duel please.

[Lycanthromancer]

that sounds good.... just provide 3 monsters (CR 12) for each trick to test the PW or Fighters with

 

I don't really need to; it's easy enough to compare builds to see which does which more easily.

[Ubernoob]

Kalashtar PW 12
1) Combat Expertise
PW) Improved Trip
PW) EWP: Spiked Chain
3) Power Attack
PW) Link Power
6) Psionic Meditation
PW) Improved Bullrush
9) Knockback
PW) Shock Trooper
12) Knock-Down (SRD)

1) Expansion
2) Precognition, Defensive
3) Precognition, Offensive
4) Hustle
5) Psionic Lion's Pounce
6) Detect Hostile Intent
7) Dimension Slide
8) Vampiric Blade
9) Empathic Feedback
10)
11)
12)
Same stat allocation as before:
14 Str, 14 dex, 14 con, 14 int, 15 wis, 8 cha

Level bumps into Wis.

aaaand I have to hang with friends.  Finish this later.

[Amadi]

Hmm, what about just saying: "Screw it, i'm going wnb caster!", instead of trying be all like: "Hey, look at me, I'm fighter!".

Assume 18 starting wisdom.
Level 12 - +3 Level bumps to wisdom.
Race: Anthropomorphic Bat - +6 Wisdom.
Items: 88k starting wealth, let's spend 36k to get item of +6 Wisdom.

33 Wisdom and natural flying speed. +11 Modifier means that our save DCs are relatively high. Let's take the following feats: (8 feats total.)
Expanded Knowledge - Ego Whip
Quicken Power
Metapower (Quicken) - Ego Whip
Metapower (Twin) - Ego Whip
Psionic Meditation
Twin Power

Free Action: Quickened Ego Whip, augmented to the max: 3d4 Cha dmg, will half.
Swift Action: Hustle, gain move action, regain focus.
Standard Action: Twinned Ego Whip, augmented to the max: 6d4 Cha dmg, will half.
Move Action: Either fly upwards if it's first round and the target wasn't dazed from the whips, or regain focus.

9d4 cha DMG = 22.5 average, and we spent: 3+11+11=25 power points. We have 109 to spend. We can repeat this total of four times, for total of 90 charisma damage. Even if we assume that the fighter saved against all of them (Save DC 27), he's getting 45 charisma damage, and passing out. Then we poke him full of holes.

Now, I suppose it's fair to assume that this'll get countered by, surprise surprise, undead. No worries here, we have two unspent feats, we just need something that we can replace Ego Whip with..

Expanded Knowledge - Energy Missile
Metapower (Twin) - Energy Missile

While this isn't as awesome.. It still does have certain benefits. First of all: Manifest first one as sonic, aiming four extra missiles to the equipment of the fighter: It'll deal.. 22d6-22 = averagely 55 damage, ignoring hardness. Even assuming that the item makes the saving throw.. 22 damage, it's going to destroy just about anything that isn't larger than normal size. Sunder table shows that Heavy Mace has 20hp, doubled if it's larger, meaning that in two rounds it's still gone, or one assuming that the fighter doesn't save. Fighters are rather poor without their weapons, you know. Same goes for armor, even if adamantine, as I really doubt any kind of armor would be even near 1 inch thick at all spots, and you know, broken armor is useless.

So, we can fairly assume, that unless metagamed against, we can deal 22 damage to the fighter 8 times from the air, and destroy 4 items/round. This means weapon and backup weapons on first round, of course, and armor and stuff on the following ones.

[Midnight_v]

Thats... pretty much the build I was working on... 
Still bravo! 

[PhaedrusXY]

Isn't manifesting a Quickened Power a swift action? If so, you can'd do that and manifest Hustle in the same round. Just get a Psicrystal and use its focus (Psicrystal Containment), though, and you can do the same thing. You can't do it every round for four rounds, though.

[Amadi]

Nope, it's free action, but limited to one quickened power/round.