Author Topic: Incarnate, already in play, any suggestions?  (Read 3749 times)

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jameswilliamogle

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Incarnate, already in play, any suggestions?
« on: November 26, 2008, 11:45:19 PM »
So I've been out of gaming since May, and off the boards since around July (RL BS, like finishing school, starting a job, and buying a house).  So, I've started gaming in a home-brew game where the DM lets most things fly and uses a TON of different published modules to make for a very interesting game (2 sessions in so far; smatterings of Savage Tide, Saltmarsh, FR Athkatla, and other stuff... quite nice to have a RL DM that actually REALLY knows his chosen setting; its been too long!).

So, I'm playing a Wrath-style Azurin Incarnate.  For those that don't know, the Wrath Incarnate uses the adaptation section of the Incarnate to remove the alignment restrictions, but to keep the same flavor as many of the alignment-based soulmelds, has to pick one "set" of those soulmelds at character creation and thereafter is set.  The Wrath-style follows the Evil subset of abilities, when it matters.

Right now, there's a Bard and me.  The Bard has trapfinding, somehow... I think it might be a racial ability.  I'm trying to convince him to go into Sublime Chord eventually, as he wants a caster type.  The DM is NPCing a Cleric, as well, and is quite good at separating character knowledge from DM knowledge.

SO... here's the current character.  Stats are power-game style, but the game is fairly balanced out otherwise.

Azurin L3 "Wrath" Incarnate
Str 18
Dex 16
Con 18
Int 14
Wis 14
Cha 8

My Feat Plans:
1,b Able Learner, Expanded Soulmeld Capacity
3 Shape Soulmeld: Totem Avatar (this is mutable; we just hit L3 at the end of last session)
6 Bonus Essentia
9 Double Chakra: Arms
12 Split Chakra: Throat
15 Healing Soul
18 Split Chakra: Soul

Right now I'm playing tank.  I'm using a heavy steel shield and MW Mithril Breastplate which I plan on enchanting to +1 or +2, and am sporting a normal AC of 20 (21 w/ Totem Avatar; again not sure I'll take this).  My damage output is pretty good too for this level; I use Incarnate Weapon for the Flail and get d8 + 7 damage one-handed.  My plan is to use the Lightening Gauntlet chakra on my hands to boost that up to d8 + 7 + 2d6 damage at 4th level.  Eventually, I'll be switching to either Lightening Gauntlet or Dissolving Spittle exclusively, but for now melee attacks are OK.  For defense, right now DR 6/good via Adamant Paldroons means that nothing really damages me, on the rare events that they hit.  I wanted to fit in Airstep Sandals as well, but its too early for that.

So, what about the feat plan?  Any advice there?  Having the Totem Avatar later on when I can double arms means that I can have Improved Grapple for hitting spellcasters as well as have Incarnate Weapon bound to my arms for the stunning effect...  But I'm just not sure its worth it (Arm Chakras do have some of the best options, regardless).  The other idea was to take Mageslayer at some point, or even take the Mindsight feat using the Shedu Crown chakra bind for the telepathy. 

I'm trying to make an incarnum-focused Incarnate; instead of trying to mimic what other classes do more exclusively, I'm planning on making this an Incarnate for incarnum's sake, maximizing its Incarnate-ness, etc.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2008, 12:18:10 AM by jameswilliamogle »

woodenbandman

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Re: Incarnate, already in play, any suggestions?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2008, 12:41:00 AM »
Well the Incarnate's specialty is defense, really, and more specifically the NG incarnate has insane defense. Totem Avatar is a pretty sweet meld, but remember that it takes up a slot as you can't just store it in your totem chakra (which you don't even have).

And it's my experience that you feel pretty badass now, but you'll drop off eventually when people start getting their second and third attacks, and you have to start focusing on passive damage such as the fire cloak whatever it's called. Incarnates make totally badass tanks. You're not really doing yourself any favors by grappling (that's what totemist is for), I'd skip that.

Totemist can get a huge modifier (upwards of +40 as a medium creature, without even any feat investment), and it only gets crazier from there (this is at level 20, though, before that they max out at about +30 before feat investment and strength bonuses).

Final thought: Necrocarnum Circlet rocks. A lot. Forever. Necrocarnate may be the class for you if you like killing things and raping their souls.


jameswilliamogle

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Re: Incarnate, already in play, any suggestions?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2008, 01:09:53 AM »
Well there's only 2 players now (the other a Bard) so I doubt I'll really have to worry about competition for other's iterative attacks.  Besides, iterative attacks are WAY overrated...  The tapering off of power for the melee Incarnate I am very much aware of (as described previously: switching to the touch attack soulmelds). 

I'm already into 3 levels w/ this build so I don't want to switch base class unless its totally ineffectual, which is not the case so far.  I'm aware of the Totemist's abilities, thanks, but not applicable here.

I'm not sure what you mean by the Totem Avatar taking a slot... do you mean class-based soulmeld slots?  By the same logic, nobody without the class ability to shape soulmelds could use it, which is not the case as far as I know.  I'm arguing that it doesn't take a class-soulmeld slot.  I'm not familiar w/ MoI's errata, though, if this has changed.  If you mean it takes a chakra slot, you might notice the L12 feat I'm planning on.  Until then, I'll get the effect of Improved Toughness, and can boost my AC, on the fly...  I'm still debating on this soulmeld or the Blink Shirt, though... one gets early benefit, one gets stronger at high level...

I'll probably resort to Necrocarnum Circlet in a bit, but not now: Athkatla is very much against magic, and zombies walking around, even intelligent and disguised ones, will get noticed eventually.  I'll never do the Necrocarnate class; its not for me as a player nor for this character or this group.

I just need feat advice, and maybe equipment advice, thanks.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2008, 01:14:54 AM by jameswilliamogle »

Surreal

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Re: Incarnate, already in play, any suggestions?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2008, 04:56:18 AM »
I like the open chakra feats. At early levels I think it's good bang for the buck, so to speak. You might even consider bonus essentia at level 3, and then you can grab a chakra feat right at level 6.
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Risada

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Re: Incarnate, already in play, any suggestions?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2008, 05:47:34 AM »
+1 for Bonus Essentia at 3rd...

And since you are using evil soulmelds, might as well try to optimize your melee damage, and possibly grab that Skillful weapon later...

jameswilliamogle

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Re: Incarnate, already in play, any suggestions?
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2008, 01:24:52 PM »
+1 for Bonus Essentia at 3rd...

And since you are using evil soulmelds, might as well try to optimize your melee damage, and possibly grab that Skillful weapon later...
Not familiar w/ the Skillful weapon, if y'all could elaborate a bit, I'd be much obliged!

Bonus Essentia cannot be taken until 6th level; prereq character level 6
« Last Edit: November 27, 2008, 01:46:39 PM by jameswilliamogle »

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Incarnate, already in play, any suggestions?
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2008, 02:38:57 PM »
+1 for Bonus Essentia at 3rd...

And since you are using evil soulmelds, might as well try to optimize your melee damage, and possibly grab that Skillful weapon later...
Not familiar w/ the Skillful weapon, if y'all could elaborate a bit, I'd be much obliged!

Bonus Essentia cannot be taken until 6th level; prereq character level 6
Not that much of an expert on Incarnum, but this I can help with :D
It's in Complete Arcane, a +1 enhancement IIRC, grants proficiency and sets your BAB at 3/4.

Good luck,
~Bowen
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jameswilliamogle

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Re: Incarnate, already in play, any suggestions?
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2008, 07:48:13 PM »
Nice! Thanks!  I'll be looking for one around 12th level or so.  Until then, I suspect that the Incarnate Weapon, combined w/ Lightening Gauntlets (Hand) is better.

It is SO nice to only have to buy armor now.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Incarnate, already in play, any suggestions?
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2008, 05:20:08 PM »
If you are Lawful Evil, go Cleric 1/Kensei 1 ASAP to get Skillful placed on your Incarnate Weapon. Or Ur-priest 2/Contemplative 1/Sapphire Heirarch 10.


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woodenbandman

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Re: Incarnate, already in play, any suggestions?
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2008, 05:21:58 PM »
I think that Sapphire Hierarch's supposed to be Lawful Neutral required, but I don't see anything wrong with that. That's a pretty sweet build.

jameswilliamogle

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Re: Incarnate, already in play, any suggestions?
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2008, 08:37:31 PM »
If you are Lawful Evil, go Cleric 1/Kensei 1 ASAP to get Skillful placed on your Incarnate Weapon. Or Ur-priest 2/Contemplative 1/Sapphire Heirarch 10.
Great ideas!  Not sure if I'll use them, as I want the full Incarnate experience*, not the Incarnate / Cleric experience, but we'll see if the game requires a power-boost to keep up (I convinced the Bard to go for a Fochlucan Lyricist build w/ SC and Druid, so I might be really lacking at high level: luckily, I've got time...

*To prevent too much of the whole flavor-defines-form discussion, I'll argue that it doesn't apply as much here, as the Incarnate is more-or-less too "out there", and doesn't really have a RL or even fantasy counterpart.

jameswilliamogle

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Re: Incarnate, already in play, any suggestions?
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2008, 12:22:45 AM »
I just thought of something:

Can an Incarnate take Empower / Quicken SLA?  How do I determine CL or "spell level" for a particular soulmeld to determine this sort of thing (for example, for Dissolving Spittle or Lightening Gauntlets)?  I think that ML = CL, but not sure of spell level...

I'm imagining an Empowered Lightening Gauntlet / Incarnate Weapon / Incarnate Avatar / Bloodwar Gauntlets / Bluesteal Bracers would get some pretty good damage :).
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 12:35:32 AM by jameswilliamogle »

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Incarnate, already in play, any suggestions?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2008, 02:06:02 AM »
I just thought of something:

Can an Incarnate take Empower / Quicken SLA?  How do I determine CL or "spell level" for a particular soulmeld to determine this sort of thing (for example, for Dissolving Spittle or Lightening Gauntlets)?  I think that ML = CL, but not sure of spell level...

I'm imagining an Empowered Lightening Gauntlet / Incarnate Weapon / Incarnate Avatar / Bloodwar Gauntlets / Bluesteal Bracers would get some pretty good damage :).

Soulmelds are not spells. The only SLA they have is Detect Alignment. And the only one of those that would have the damage needed for Empower to work with it are Bloodwar Gauntlets and Lightning Gauntlet. Both of them suck, BTW.


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X-Codes

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Re: Incarnate, already in play, any suggestions?
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2008, 05:06:51 AM »
I thought Soulmelds were Su?

jameswilliamogle

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Re: Incarnate, already in play, any suggestions?
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2008, 09:59:24 AM »
Hrm, I thought I read that they were SLAs... ok, nm.

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Incarnate, already in play, any suggestions?
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2008, 03:25:39 PM »
If they are (Su), I believe there are some 'meta-feats' for (Su) abilities in Tome of Magic...

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Sinfire Titan

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Re: Incarnate, already in play, any suggestions?
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2008, 01:24:59 AM »
I thought Soulmelds were Su?

Nope, they're magical effects. Fully so, but in a different category from spells (like Psionics).


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