Author Topic: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous  (Read 19855 times)

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Risada

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[3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« on: November 16, 2008, 01:31:38 PM »
Since there are a lot of remakes flying around, I felt like trying something as well....


Behold! My take on the Shining Blade of Heironeous!! (and hopefully it won't be named the Sucking Blade of Heironeous)

Shining Blade of Heironeous


A shining blade of Heironeous using his Thunder Assault ability


ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
   Deity: must worship Heironeous  
   Base attack bonus: +7  
   Skills: Knowledge (religion) 7 ranks, Spellcraft 2 ranks
   Feats: Weapon Focus (longsword or battleaxe)
   Spellcasting: must be able to cast 1st level divine spells
    
  

Class Skills
 The Shining Blade of Heironeous's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis) and Spellcraft (Int).
Skills Points at Each  Level : 2 + int modifier

Hit Dice: d10

    BAB  Fort   Ref   Will   Abilities                                     Spells per day
1.  +1    +2     +0    +2    Bonus Domain, Lightning Blade +1d8            -
2.  +2    +3     +0    +3    Energy Blade, Lightning Splash                +1 level of divine spellcasting class
3.  +3    +3     +1    +3    Smite Evil 1/day, Thunder Assault 1/enc       +1 level of divine spellcasting class
4.  +4    +4     +1    +4    Righteous Blade, Lightning Blade +2d8         -
5.  +5    +4     +1    +4    Bonus Domain, Thunder Soul                    +1 level of divine spellcasting class
6.  +6    +5     +2    +5    Greater Thunder Assault, Retributive Thunder  +1 level of divine spellcasting class
7.  +7    +5     +2    +5    Lightning Blade +3d8, Thunder Assault 2/enc   -
8.  +8    +6     +2    +6    Divine Lightning                              +1 level of divine spellcasting class
9.  +9    +6     +3    +6    Smite Evil 2/day                              +1 level of divine spellcasting class
10. +10   +7     +3    +7    Judgement Strike, Lightning Blade +4d8        -


Weapon Proficiencies: the shining blade of Heironeous is proficient with all simple and martial weapons.

Class Features

Spellcasting: at each level indicated on the table, the shining blade of Heironeous gains new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known, if applicable) as if you had also gained a level in a divine spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If you had more than one divine spellcasting class before becoming a shining blade of Heironeous, she must decide which class gains each level for the purpose of determining spells per day, caster level, and spells known.

Bonus domain: at 1st and 5th levels, the shining blade of Heironeous gains a bonus domain from Heironeous's domains.

Lightning Blade (Su): starting at 1st level, the shining blade of Heironeous's attacks deal an additional 1d8 points of electricity damage. This damage increases by 1d8 at 4th, 7th and 10th levels.

Energy Blade (Su): starting at 2nd level, the shining blade of Heironeous can use this ability as a swift action. When using this ability, the shining blade of Heironeous gains one of the following benefits: her weapon becomes a force effect or the weapon gains the brilliant energy weapon enhancement. Additionally, the shining blade of Heironeous's weapon's reach increases by 5 feet. This ability lasts for 1 + her Charisma modifier rounds. This ability is usable once per encounter.

Lightning Splash (Ex): starting at 2nd level, whenever the shining blade of Heironeous makes a melee attack against an opponent, all adjacent enemies take electricity damage equal to your Lightning Blade's bonus damage.

Smite Evil (Su): starting at 3rd level, the shining blade of Heironeous may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per paladin level (the shining blade of Heironeous's class levels stack with any paladin level she may already have). If the shining blade of Heironeous accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day. This ability is usable once per day at 3rd level and twice per day at 9th level. (If the shining blade of Heironeous already possess smite evil granted by other classes, they both stack)

Thunder Assault (Sp): beginning at 3rd level, the shining blade of Heironeous can launch a powerful lightning attack once per encounter. All creatures in a 60ft line take electricity damage equal to 4d8 + 4 times the shining blade's Lightning Blade damage (so a 3rd level shining blade deals 8d8 points of damage). A Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level + Charisma modifier) halves this damage. At 7th level, the shining blade gains one more use of this ability

Righteous Blade (Sp): starting at 4th level, once per encounter as a swift action, the shining blade of Heironeous can charge his blade with holy power. This functions as the holy sword spell (caster level equals the shining blade's class level), except that this effect overlaps with (does not replace) any existing enchantments the weapon may have.

Thunder Soul (Ex): starting at 5th level, the shining blade of Heironeous is immune to electricity damage. In addition, all allies within 10ft. take half damage from electricity effects.

Greater Thunder Assault (Ex): beginning at 6th level, the shining blade's Thunder Assault takes the form of a 60ft cone or 120ft line. The choice is made when this class feature is granted, and cannot be changed.

Retributive Thunder (Su): beginning at 6th level, whenever the shining blade of Heironeous is hit by an melee attack or ranged attack out of 30 feet, the attacker takes electricity damage equal to your Lightning Blade's bonus damage (so a 6th level shining blade of Heironeous deals 2d8 points of electricity damage).

Divine Lightning (Ex): starting at 8th level, all electricity damage dealt by a shining blade of Heironeous now deals half electricity half divine damage.

Judgement Strike (Su): at 10th level, once per encounter, the shining blade can make a special smite evil attack as a full-round action. The shining blade adds double his Charisma bonus to the attack roll, and the attack deals double its normal damage (including damage from smite evil). Additionally, if the creature struck is evil, the creature must make a Will saving throw (DC 10 + the shining blade's class level + his Charisma modifier) or be dazed for 1 round. Even if an evil creature succeeds on this saving throw, it is slowed for 1 round. A shining blade may only use this ability while wielding his deity's favoured weapon, and he must still expend a use of smite evil as normal.

-----------------------
Edit: changed requirements and made Thunder Assault a 60 ft line...
Edit2: Added bonus domain ,energy blade and blinding blade class features...
Edit3: added greater thunder assault and casting is now 8/10...
Edit4: casting is 6/10 again, changed Blinding Blade to Weakening blade and added Judgement Strike.
Edit5: Added Righteous Blade at 4th level, bonus domain at 5th, Smite Evil at 3rd and 8th, changed Divine Lightning, and moved Judgement Strike to 10th level.
Edit6: Added Prime32's fixes on a lot of stuff and added veekie's suggestion on Divine Lightning...

Prime32

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Re: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2008, 02:57:04 PM »
ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
   Alignment: NG, LG or LN 
   Base attack bonus: +7 
   Spellcasting: must be able to cast 1st level divine spells
   Skills: Knowledge (religion) 7 ranks, Spellcraft 2 ranks
Rather than alignment, it might be easier to just say "Must worship Heironeous (or a similar deity if Heironeous does not exist in your setting)"

Quote
Thunder Assault (Sp): beginning at 3rd level, the shining blade of Heironeous can launch a powerful lightning attack out of 60 feet against an opponent. The target takes damage equal to 5d8 + 5 times your lightning blade damage (so a 3rd level shining blade of Heironeous deals 10d8 points of damage). A Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level + Charisma modifier) halves this damage. This ability is usable once per encounter at 3rd level and you gain one more use of this ability at 6th and again at 9th level.
Would it be too bad if you made this a line?

Quote
Thunder Soul (Ex): starting at 5th level, whenever the shining blade of Heironeous receives eletricity damage from any kind of attacks, she takes no damage from the attack and heals a number of hit points equal to twice her class level.
Broken... senses... tingling! There's plenty of room for abuse with teammates using barrages of weak electric attacks.

Quote
Retributive Thunder (Su): beginning at 6th level, whenever the shining blade of Heironeous is hit by a melee attack, the attacker takes electricity damage equal to your Lightning Blade's bonus damage (so a 6th level shining blade of Heironeous deals 2d8 points of electricity damage).
Oh god, now I can imagine two monk/SBoH characters using TWF flurry of blows on each other...
What if this was changed to also affect ranged attackers within 30ft?

Quote
Divine Lightning (Ex): starting at 8th level, all electricity damage dealt by the shining blade of Heironeous ignores any kind of electricity resistance, and deals half damage to those that are immune to electricity damage.
There's already a spell in the BoED (heavenly lightning?) which deals "celestial electricity damage" that ignores immunity.

For a capstone, what about stormrage?

Other stuff that could go in:
Channeling for spells that deal electric damage
Add your full class level to caster level for the CL of electric spells
Ability to smite evil with electric spells
Smite evil does electric damage
Swift-action teleport
Ability to ionise the air, causing electric attacks to become more powerful. Alternately, it could be "holy ionisation", and electric spells gain the good descriptor
Brilliant blade and holy blade
Gain the Storm domain, or a prestige domain
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

bkdubs123

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Re: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2008, 03:58:47 PM »
Other stuff that could go in:
Channeling for spells that deal electric damage

I could dig this.

Quote
Add your full class level to caster level for the CL of electric spells

Maybe... maybe not. It really won't matter a whole with your crazy destructive Thunder Assault.

Quote
Ability to smite evil with electric spells
Smite evil does electric damage

Doesn't seem necessary.

Quote
Swift-action teleport

Doesn't seem thematic.

Quote
Ability to ionise the air, causing electric attacks to become more powerful. Alternately, it could be "holy ionisation", and electric spells gain the good descriptor

This might be a nice touch.

Quote
Brilliant blade and holy blade

Certainly possible.

Quote
Gain the Storm domain, or a prestige domain

I definitely think the PrC is lacking at 1st level. Giving the Storm Domain there would be a nice 1st level, IMO.

My own observations:

You're right, it's very reliant on Electricty damage, but where there's lightning there's thunder (aka sonic), so this is easily changed. Any class feature that says something about Thunder should be working with sonic damage in my opinion. Change Lightning Splash, to Thunderous Blows, and have the adjacent creatures take sonic damage. Have Thunder Assault deal 1/2 elec, 1/2 sonic. Maybe add immunity to sonic to Thunder Soul, or at least Resistance 30. Again, Retributive Thunder should deal sonic damage.

At 9th level you might consider something that imposes a "status effect" on enemies you deal damage to with Electricity or Sonic damage. Electricity might cause enemies to be Immobilized for 1 round; Sonic might cause them to fall prone or be deafened?

Now, Thunder Assault just seems too strong, even if it is half electric/half sonic. Three times Lightning Blade seems plenty to me. That makes it 8d8 at 10th level and 17d8 at 17th level, and since it's a line attack and 1/encounter, that makes it much more reasonable compared to maneuvers, which it should compare to rather than spells.

*Awesome remake though. +Fu!

Risada

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Re: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2008, 04:16:41 PM »
Quote
Divine Lightning (Ex): starting at 8th level, all electricity damage dealt by the shining blade of Heironeous ignores any kind of electricity resistance, and deals half damage to those that are immune to electricity damage.
There's already a spell in the BoED (heavenly lightning?) which deals "celestial electricity damage" that ignores immunity.

Actually, I want this one to be a "passive ability", to be always active....

Other stuff that could go in:
Channeling for spells that deal electric damage

I could dig this.

Then please post some idea for this :)

I definitely think the PrC is lacking at 1st level. Giving the Storm Domain there would be a nice 1st level, IMO.

How do I word it? I mean, Clerics are fine, but what about Pallies? Make it add the spells from the domain to the list and grant the benefit as normal?

My own observations:

You're right, it's very reliant on Electricty damage, but where there's lightning there's thunder (aka sonic), so this is easily changed. Any class feature that says something about Thunder should be working with sonic damage in my opinion. Change Lightning Splash, to Thunderous Blows, and have the adjacent creatures take sonic damage. Have Thunder Assault deal 1/2 elec, 1/2 sonic. Maybe add immunity to sonic to Thunder Soul, or at least Resistance 30. Again, Retributive Thunder should deal sonic damage.

At 9th level you might consider something that imposes a "status effect" on enemies you deal damage to with Electricity or Sonic damage. Electricity might cause enemies to be Immobilized for 1 round; Sonic might cause them to fall prone or be deafened?

Now, Thunder Assault just seems too strong, even if it is half electric/half sonic. Three times Lightning Blade seems plenty to me. That makes it 8d8 at 10th level and 17d8 at 17th level, and since it's a line attack and 1/encounter, that makes it much more reasonable compared to maneuvers, which it should compare to rather

About the Lightning/Thunder stuff.... I thought that all class features having Lightning in the name would be quite boring, so I chose to put some with Thunder in the name...


I already made Thunder Soul grant immunity to electricity damage, but if Sonic stuff is to be added, then maybe electricity and sonic resistance 30 might fit the bill...

Prime32

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Re: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2008, 04:17:30 PM »
You're right, it's very reliant on Electricty damage, but where there's lightning there's thunder (aka sonic), so this is easily changed. Any class feature that says something about Thunder should be working with sonic damage in my opinion. Change Lightning Splash, to Thunderous Blows, and have the adjacent creatures take sonic damage. Have Thunder Assault deal 1/2 elec, 1/2 sonic. Maybe add immunity to sonic to Thunder Soul, or at least Resistance 30. Again, Retributive Thunder should deal sonic damage.
I disagree. The original class doesn't have any "thunder" theme, but it does have an "energy" theme (shocking/holy/brilliant) - electricity is just a form of energy. If there's a secondary damage type it should be divine, untyped, or even force.

What about the ability to make your sword extend (on your turn only)? Sorry, I've been watching this too much :p

On a related note... (I love that vid :D)

Another idea: Have the sword blind people it strikes.

I definitely think the PrC is lacking at 1st level. Giving the Storm Domain there would be a nice 1st level, IMO.

How do I word it? I mean, Clerics are fine, but what about Pallies? Make it add the spells from the domain to the list and grant the benefit as normal?
There are already rules for this in Complete Divine.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2008, 04:52:44 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

bkdubs123

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Re: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2008, 06:23:40 PM »
You're right, it's very reliant on Electricty damage, but where there's lightning there's thunder (aka sonic), so this is easily changed. Any class feature that says something about Thunder should be working with sonic damage in my opinion. Change Lightning Splash, to Thunderous Blows, and have the adjacent creatures take sonic damage. Have Thunder Assault deal 1/2 elec, 1/2 sonic. Maybe add immunity to sonic to Thunder Soul, or at least Resistance 30. Again, Retributive Thunder should deal sonic damage.
I disagree. The original class doesn't have any "thunder" theme, but it does have an "energy" theme (shocking/holy/brilliant) - electricity is just a form of energy. If there's a secondary damage type it should be divine, untyped, or even force.

Yeah, well, Heironeous doesn't have ANY connection to electricity, energy, or storms for that matter (except his Holy Symbol has a lightning bolt in it...). Really this is more of a Crackling Blade of Talos than anything else, and considering Talos is literally the Storm God that really makes the most sense.

Now, if you want to make it more of a Shining Blade of Heironeous then the electricity damage needs to go the way of the dodo. Heironeous is a Paladin. When was the last time you saw a Paladin throwing lightning bolts around? Things like Brilliant Blade and Holy Blade start to make a lot more sense again. His domains are Good, Law, and War, and his portfolio contains things like Honor, Valor, and Daring. This says to me that Heironeous likes his followers to obey the laws of the land, but to be a little more reckless, creative, and adventurous whenever they are not breaking laws, and especially in combat. Charisma should be important to a Shining Blade of Heironeous, then Strength, Constitution and Wisdom afterward.

A Blinding effect on a Shining Blade's attacks seems appropriate. A Sunburst-esque effect doesn't seem out of place either.

Prime32

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Re: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2008, 06:47:53 PM »
His domains are Good, Law, and War, and his portfolio contains things like Honor, Valor, and Daring.
This says to me:
  • Honour: Choose to do something in the next round (IMMA CHARGIN MA SABER!). You are vulnerable for 1 round. If you keep to your decision to do it, it is very powerful.
  • Valour: Immunity to fear is something paladins get anyway. The only other thing I can think of is getting a bonus on saving throws against opponents stronger than you. This could be metagame-ish, so maybe against larger creatures or creatures that have used the same ability against you already?
  • Daring: Auto-damaging attackers rewards daring tactics, as do abilities with large random variables.

Quote
A Blinding effect on a Shining Blade's attacks seems appropriate. A Sunburst-esque effect doesn't seem out of place either.
Sunburst could be going too far and stepping on Pelor's toes.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Risada

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Re: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2008, 08:58:58 PM »
Added class features at 1st, 2nd and 4th levels...

bkdubs123

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Re: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2008, 11:25:10 PM »
I suggest writing two PrCs out of what you have to be honest. What you have is mostly a Crackling Blade of Talos. The other stuff that you tacked on should be part of a non-Lightning based Heironeous PrC which may or may not be called the Shining Blade of Heironeous. That being said, I think both will be awesome.

Prime32

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Re: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2008, 10:56:56 AM »
Added class features at 1st, 2nd and 4th levels...
I'm liking the current version. Thinking of submitting it to the arena?

I think it could still use some minor holy abilities. For a capstone, maybe a stunning (sacred seal... thing) or holy word melee attack? (remove the deafening condition, and change the descriptors to [Good, Light]) There's also holy sword and hero's blade (ECS)

Maybe at higher levels you could double the range of Thunder Assault or turn it into a cone?
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

bkdubs123

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Re: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2008, 11:37:25 AM »
Am I the only one who thinks that a Heironeous PrC should have very little, if nothing at all, to do with electricity? If I am I'll just go away...

veekie

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Re: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2008, 11:41:24 AM »
Am I the only one who thinks that a Heironeous PrC should have very little, if nothing at all, to do with electricity? If I am I'll just go away...

That only applies if you are writing a whole new Heironeous PrC, this is simply making an existing PrC suck less, call it the Shining Blade of Zeus if it offends you less.
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[spoiler]
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[/spoiler]

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Risada

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Re: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2008, 01:50:12 PM »
I think it could still use some minor holy abilities. For a capstone, maybe a stunning (sacred seal... thing) or holy word melee attack? (remove the deafening condition, and change the descriptors to [Good, Light]) There's also holy sword and hero's blade (ECS)

Maybe at higher levels you could double the range of Thunder Assault or turn it into a cone?

I was thinking on adding some Arcane Strike-ish ability (say, burn a spell slot to gain a bonus to attack rolls, and if the trget is evil, it takes x extra damage), and an ability that electricity spells and SLAs deals 2 or 3 extra damage per die.... and for the capstone, some banishment-ish ability to outsiders hit by the energy blade?


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Re: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2008, 02:50:44 PM »
Aside from first level, your dead casting levels don't give Real AbilitiesTM.

Rule number one of classes that advance casting part way: Give a Real AbilityTM at every dead casting level so the class is worth taking.
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AfterCrescent

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Re: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2008, 03:14:17 PM »
Uber's got a point. Besides the missing capstone at level 10, the other two levels without +1CL only increase elec. damage by 1d8, something you could do better with spells. :P

(No, blinding for 1 round at ECL 11 is not really worthwhile, considering Scent, Blindsense/sight, Tremorsense)

Why is it a -4CL class anyway? If you can find a worthwhile capstone, you could do a -2 at 1 & 10. Or if you can find something worthwhile, I'd vote a loss at 1 & 6.
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Re: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2008, 04:20:45 PM »
Well at the levels that used to be "dead level" it didn't just improved the Lightning Blade damage it also added 5d8 to the Thunder Assault 1/enc ability. Pretty hardcore. Now he's lowered the damage slightly, but those levels still add 4d8 to it, so I wouldn't say they are all that dead.

Again, isn't Thunder Assault too powerful? Compare it to anything a ToB character can do. And now this class has 8/10 casting. At 10th level you can create a 120ft line of electricity that deals 22d8 damage. Avg is about 108. That's more than Inferno Blast (which admittedly isn't that great), has a less resisted energy type, and a much easier to use area of effect. The max is 172. But I guess it can only be used 1/encounter ever and Inferno Blast can be recovered... maybe it's okay...?

I think the caster levels need to go back to 6/10 or at least 7/10. Right now it's the premier "Cleric-gish" and those aren't even necessary.

JaronK

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Re: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2008, 04:21:38 PM »
Personally, I think the SBoH should be set up as a Paladin PrC, not a Cleric PrC.  As such, it's fine if it looses lots of caster levels, as long as it gives back something as good as (or slightly better than) the lost Paladin casting... and that doesn't have to be nearly as good as the potencial lost Cleric casting.

JaronK

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Re: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2008, 04:27:23 PM »
Personally, I think the SBoH should be set up as a Paladin PrC, not a Cleric PrC.  As such, it's fine if it looses lots of caster levels, as long as it gives back something as good as (or slightly better than) the lost Paladin casting... and that doesn't have to be nearly as good as the potencial lost Cleric casting.

JaronK
Agreed. If the goal is to be a Paladin PrC, it doesn't even need to advance casting (although you could easily say +1 level of paladin casting and be done with it). The point is to give it things worth taking instead of casting and to make the Paladin a Shining Blade. :D
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Risada

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Re: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2008, 06:03:37 PM »
Again, isn't Thunder Assault too powerful? Compare it to anything a ToB character can do. And now this class has 8/10 casting. At 10th level you can create a 120ft line of electricity that deals 22d8 damage. Avg is about 108. That's more than Inferno Blast (which admittedly isn't that great), has a less resisted energy type, and a much easier to use area of effect. The max is 172. But I guess it can only be used 1/encounter ever and Inferno Blast can be recovered... maybe it's okay...?

Unless my math sucks terribly, Thunder Assault is dealing 20d8 at 10th level (4d8 base + 4x4d8)...


And added a class feature at 5th level...

bkdubs123

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Re: [3.5]Saving the Shining Blade of Heironeous
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2008, 06:41:06 PM »
Unless my math sucks terribly, Thunder Assault is dealing 20d8 at 10th level (4d8 base + 4x4d8)...

Right... I don't know what the fuck I was thinking. Oops.

Anyway, I still like this class. I always thought it was pretty awesome. Is there a way to make it more for Paladins without being as obvious as, "+1 Paladin Level?" I was thinking Immunity to Fear could be a prerequisite considering the whole Honor, Valor, Daring thing. And Lawful Good alignment.