Author Topic: Shugenja Tech.  (Read 3616 times)

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Midnight_v

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Shugenja Tech.
« on: November 09, 2008, 09:03:15 PM »
Got any?
 :D

I've never played this thing, its a caster though and I have glitterdust and a few things going for it but what do you suggest?
I mean feats, builds, items all appreciated.
Quote
Here's the details.
Anyways, we're still looking for a shugenja player.  Here's a basic layout of spells and shit:
0-All four water, detect magic, ghost sound, mage hand
1-Obscuring Mist, Bless, silent image, shield of faith
2-Lesser restoration, glitterdust

Order-Order of the Spring Zephyr

Buy SF:Knowledge(Religion) via Complete scoundrel, head into divine oracle next level.  Feats are pretty open, so who knows.

That's as much as I've got without actually running it.  Can we PLEASE get a shugenja player?  Your character is half way built already.
That's what was given to me. . . so...
Any insight?
\\\"Disentegrate.\\\" \\\"Gust of wind.\\\" \\\"Now Can we PLEASE resume saving the world?\\\"

Akalsaris

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Re: Shugenja Tech.
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2008, 10:05:44 PM »
Well, I have no idea what "buy SF: Religion via Comp. Scoundrel" means (except that you need the SF for Divine Oracle), but ask the DM why the shugenja needs to head into divine oracle.  The PrC's coolest ability is getting evasion in heavy armor, but shugenja have no armor or shield proficiencies...

Otherwise, your DM doesn't seem to understand how the elements work, since you've got water, air, and earth spells, which isn't possible, since air and earth are opposing elements - so shield of faith and glitterdust are illegal choices.  You also can't get into divine oracle unless you choose some more divination spells, since you don't know two divination spells yet...

Anyhow, water/air is basically a healbot build, I'll add more when I'm free later.

Midnight_v

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Re: Shugenja Tech.
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2008, 11:01:57 PM »
Well apparently I'm a "Water" shugneja. So I oppose fire.
Meaning I can take both air and earth spells... or so I thought!
I asked him about that SF via CS he hasn't responded to the message yet.
Thats for the help!
It does seem like a healbot doesn't it. . . I know I'm getting Divine Oracle to add a domain spell list .. thats part of it.
Contemplative basically gives me a Domain of my choice... I'm overall not impressed with the class, but its worth a good hard look.
\\\"Disentegrate.\\\" \\\"Gust of wind.\\\" \\\"Now Can we PLEASE resume saving the world?\\\"

Kaelik

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Re: Shugenja Tech.
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2008, 11:40:51 PM »
Yeah, it's a shitty class. It's in the test, same as the Ardent, because Uber's Tier theory is that casting is so fucking sweet, that as long as you have a full progression, even if you have a crappy list and weird restrictions, you will have some sexy things to do. Suck as cast Glitterdust at level 5.

Midnight_v

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Re: Shugenja Tech.
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2008, 11:42:11 PM »
LOL, yeah well at least you don't have to heighten it right? . .
Right?  :-\
 :(
 :wall
\\\"Disentegrate.\\\" \\\"Gust of wind.\\\" \\\"Now Can we PLEASE resume saving the world?\\\"

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Shugenja Tech.
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2008, 12:39:30 AM »
Shujenga don't have armor proficiencies, but they can wear armor without fear of ASF as they cast divine spells. All you'd have to worry about is ACP, which can be pretty minimal even with decent armor.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

juton

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Re: Shugenja Tech.
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2008, 12:55:58 AM »
I've been thinking about using a Shugenja to make a divine gish. First, if you can change your character try and select the order of the Ineffiable mystery, or any order that doesn't ban any elements. Since you're a spontaneous caster try dipping a level of Contemplative to add a domain to your spells known. You can also dip Sacred Exorcist to get turn undead.

My Gish build looked something like:
Fighter 1/Shugenja 6/Sacred Exorcist 4/PrC Paladin 3/Sacred Fist 6/
Gets BAB 16 and 9th level spells, used up all it's feats though.

A better divine caster would be:
Shugenja 5 / Divine Oracle 10 / Sacred Exorcist 4 / Contemplative 1
You'll want to arrange these class levels as you see fit, adds a total of 18 spells to your spell list, you also get Turn Attempts to fuel DMM munch.

Akalsaris

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Re: Shugenja Tech.
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2008, 02:09:42 AM »
PhaedrusXY: That's true about the ACP and ACF, though he'll also be violating the "flavor" of shugenja =P  So a mithril breastplate would probably be a good investment.

For what it's worth, I disagree with Uber's tiers, partially because he assesses them based almost purely on combat viability instead of overall usefulness to a party, and partially because I can't believe he can say with a straight face that the crusader and shugenja are equally useful in a fight.  JaronK doesn't list a tier for them, but I'd put shugenja at Tier 5 on his scale, roughly equal to a Healer - even though a healer has better HP, better saves, light armor proficiency, 13 mediocre class abilities compared to the shugenja's single weak ability, and a faster, non-spontaneous spell progression.  

As a shugenja, you've got a more versatile spell list than a healer's, but if your role in the party is to cover the healbot role, then a bunch of your spells known are going to go into healing to just barely match what a healer can do automatically.  And Healers suck.  

I'm assuming you're 5th level from your spell list - so next level you'll learn 1 spell from the Water list and 1 order spell - I'd go for Cure Serious Wounds (since you still don't have any healing spells), and Invis (which is automatic).  I was wrong about the divination requirements though - you've got detect poison from the water element and detect magic, so you're fine there.  

I'd go for an elven archer shugenja, who's dedicated to protecting the skies and oceans of the elven lands.  
[spoiler]
Shugenja 6/Divine Oracle 2/Ruathar 2/Seeker of the Misty Isles 3/Contemplative 7.  Stats would focus on Dex/Cha, then Str/Con, then Int/Wis.

Shugenja gets you...well...nothing that a cleric wouldn't do far better, but at least you don't need wisdom.  Divine Oracle gives you evasion.  Ruathar gives casting progression, some small benefits and a magic item, and survival as a class skill to qualify for Seeker.  Seeker of the Misty Isles continues casting, boosts your reflex saves, gives the travel domain, and a ton of useful skills, and then contemplative gives 2 more domains (I'd at least get the war domain for divine power since all the PrCs means that your BAB is shot to hell), slippery mind, and spell resistance.

For spells to pick up, I'd grab haste, dispel magic, dismissal, restoration, greater invisibility, wall of stone, righteous might, heal, greater dispel magic, resurrection, mislead, mass heal, protection from spells, true resurrection, and SNA IX.  

That's 2 spells/level listed (or about half of the spells you'd know for each level), mostly from the water element.  It gives you some decent buffs and healing, as well as a few battlefield control spells and such - and you'll get more options from your domains and order, of course.

Feats:
1st: Point Blank Shot
3rd: Precise Shot
6th: Skill Focus (Knowledge: Religion)
9th: Rapid Shot
12th: Woodland Archer

Books: Complete Divine, Races of the Wild[/spoiler]

Kaelik

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Re: Shugenja Tech.
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2008, 03:15:39 AM »
but if your role in the party is to cover the healbot role, then a bunch of your spells known are going to go into healing to just barely match what a healer can do automatically.

Why would you be trying to mimic the Healing role? He's mimicking the shoot people in the face with dust role, and he has Lesser Restoration because he needs a water spell and it's good to have something to heal ability damage.

For healing, he just has to buy a wand of Lesser Vigor and let the guy with a +17 UMD use it. (Sorry, can't buy it myself, had to spend all my gold to assure myself SA opportunities.)

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Shugenja Tech.
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2008, 01:48:54 PM »
PhaedrusXY: That's true about the ACP and ACF, though he'll also be violating the "flavor" of shugenja =P  So a mithril breastplate would probably be a good investment.
And an ironwood shield. Flavor/schmavor. If they wanted them to not wear armor, they should have made them suffer from ASF.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Tshern

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Re: Shugenja Tech.
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2008, 03:24:57 PM »
I wouldn't get too excited about this since ubernoob got banned for a week and the thread was closed. At least I question the future of the game and I am the DM...

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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Shugenja Tech.
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2008, 05:28:01 PM »
I wouldn't get too excited about this since ubernoob got banned for a week and the thread was closed. At least I question the future of the game and I am the DM...
:lol
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Akalsaris

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Re: Shugenja Tech.
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2008, 02:22:27 AM »
Last night I was thinking about the build I put up earlier, and in retrospect I don't think it's a very good one - the character will have a terrible BAB until he can get divine power, since shugenja have the BAB of a wizard on top of a lot of multi-classing, and even then he won't be particularly good at the shoot-things-in-the-face role.

Straw_Man

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Re: Shugenja Tech.
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2008, 11:47:57 PM »

  Pity. I was looking forward to seeing how an opt'ed Factotum and Ardent would do. Any chance it could happen without noob?
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