Author Topic: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)  (Read 4831 times)

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Alastar

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Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« on: November 05, 2008, 09:28:51 PM »
Btw, upcoming soon, a new episode of diary of chuck, I'm working on it.

I am starting some arena fights between me and a lot of friends (aroudn 16 i think, maybe a bit less) and i would like to benefit from your experience, as always in situations where i do not have a lot of experience myself.

I am the DM of such events, i need help on the restrictions :)

So far I have:

-No infinite loops
-No obsessively abusive things (like chuck)
-Level 7
-Standard Wealth (No Hirelings, No candle of invocation, No PAO)
-Every 3 victories you level (wealth levels with you)
-Fight ends with death or surrender of one party (surrender means you can fight in next tournament, death means you reroll a new level 7 character)
-32 point buy
-Average HD
-The entry fee is : one beer, winner takes all.

If i have people who win too much I might have them either become the champions and reroll (you know those guys whom you fight when your real good) or have them go on.

I'm also planning on some events, maybe some 3vsmonster battle, 2vs2 battles, FFA, things like that.

Any tips, suggestions, or anything of the sort?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 10:22:31 PM by Alastar »

Callix

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Re: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2008, 09:40:43 PM »
Level 7 means Freedom of Movement is in, so grappling just went bye-bye.

One of the PVP tricks I've always liked was Ego Whip spam. Even if they have a good Cha, they still have to save or be dazed. Telepath fits this nicely; you can also take Brain Lock and arm your psicrystal (Armor spikes is a good way to do this). It takes ages for you to finish them, but they go down eventually.
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Alastar

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Re: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2008, 10:22:47 PM »
I am the DM of such events, i need help on the restrictions :)

skydragonknight

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Re: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2008, 10:36:16 PM »
I am the DM of such events, i need help on the restrictions :)

hr/level buffs and longer.
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AfterCrescent

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Re: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2008, 10:40:02 PM »
hr/level buffs and longer.
Really good one.
Also, try to have multiple arena maps so they can't predict what they'll be facing.

And like any good arena, have an out of bounds = disqualification.
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Alastar

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Re: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2008, 11:10:47 PM »
Out of bounds is good hadn't thought of that.

What if someone makes a forceful teleport/bull rush build and abuses of it thought?

What do you mean hr/level buffs?  What should be the restriction on that?

Yes I have several maps planned already, thanks, keep those suggestions coming.

AfterCrescent

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Re: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2008, 11:33:30 PM »
hrs/level means only buffs that last hr/level or longer are allowed to be up at the start of combat. No super buffing right before combat.

I was thinking teleport/plane shift as disqualifying the person to leave. If they bullrush you out, that's a valid tactic, I think. Also put a roof limit (200' should do it).
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Alastar

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Re: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2008, 11:48:05 PM »
yeah, and 40 ft. bellow.

but hmmm yeah, interesting, I,ll have to make HUMONGOUS areas thought, just to make it hard :)

AfterCrescent

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Re: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2008, 11:50:00 PM »
Just don't start them too far apart, don't want to give blaster mages a heads up on any non-caster.
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Callix

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Re: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2008, 12:48:00 AM »
yeah, and 40 ft. bellow.

but hmmm yeah, interesting, I,ll have to make HUMONGOUS areas thought, just to make it hard :)
Don't get too worried about people abusing bull rushes in this. They're not the best tactic overall, there are a lot of stacking ways to increase your defense against them, and everything they put into bull rushes is one less thing they can use to kill the other person.

You'll want to decide resource level. Most arenas use one fight per day, but a few use two or three to stop a bunch of 1/day abilities winning out (and to stop the headaches at high levels). Also, make sure you have some sort of restriction on expendable items; with three wins meaning a new level, people can afford to blow a lot of scrolls and potions to try and get the next level and the extra money.
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Alastar

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Re: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2008, 12:54:34 AM »
I was going to start them 40ft. appart.

And the battle is going to keep on going till the end of the championship, so the first battles will be big, but as the arena goes on, they'll have less and less things to do, I expect to see a wizard slap fight by the end.

Maybe a limit of 4 expandables.

Surreal

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Re: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2008, 01:28:06 AM »
Will damages/effects/etc to the arenas carry over from fight to fight? That could make things interesting, especially if contestants start prepping things for advance fights. On the other hand, that starts giving advantage to the casters again. I would love to see something like a Trapsmith working over an arena before a fight.
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Callix

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Re: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2008, 02:48:04 AM »
I was going to start them 40ft. appart.

And the battle is going to keep on going till the end of the championship, so the first battles will be big, but as the arena goes on, they'll have less and less things to do, I expect to see a wizard slap fight by the end.

Maybe a limit of 4 expandables.
I'm more meaning a gp-value limit, but a number works. The silver-bullet scroll list always struck me as part of the perks of playing a caster, but it shouldn't be an overwhelming advantage.

Then again, if you simply don't allow shopping between fights, that'd probably cover most of the expendables issue.
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Brainpiercing

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Re: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2008, 09:52:56 AM »
Forty ft. is way too close, IMHO. That almost within limited charge distance for some characters. Unless you think it SHOULD be within charging distance...

I would also limit expendable materials, too. People can do tremendous things with these.

Prime32

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Re: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2008, 11:32:32 AM »
I suggest looking at the rules for the BG Arena if you haven't already - there could be something you overlooked.

I would also limit expendable materials, too. People can do tremendous things with these.
I'm sure there's something in the DMG about increasing the price of consumables in a one-shot adventure.
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Eldariel

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Re: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2008, 04:06:49 PM »
Generally, you'll want to have the arena limited by infinite toughness walls that block dimensional travel through them. Then, anything that passes beyond those walls loses. That way, it's actually impossible to "bullrush opponent out" while still maintaining the walls.

Also, I suggest a few different terrains. For example, a mostly underwater terrain, a forest terrain, a featureless wasteland terrain, a hilly terrain, a canyon terrain, a trap-filled dungeon terrain and so on (each (except dungeons) with and without rain, snow, poor lightening, good lightening, etc.) - then have players roll for who gets to choose the terrain type (or determine it randomally yourself) and either make a new map of that type yourself (DMG has guidelines for randomally creating terrains of each type) or use one from a pool of ready maps you've made beforehand. Flavourwise, you can simply assume that the arena officials magically generate the terrain before each fight.

Make items with 1/day or generally very limited daily uses cost more - stuff like Scarab of Invulnerability, Belt of Battle and company are insanely powerful by default since you aren't really limited by the "/day"-limitation.

Finally, I wouldn't start the players aware of each other. You could give the first guy to spot the other surprise round this way, if only one guy is aware of the other (even though they've been moving turn-based all the time). This means stuff like playing a character with high Hide and Move Silently actually pays off. This also means that they could start further apart without giving ranged characters an overwhelming advantage.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 04:27:34 PM by Eldariel »

Alastar

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Re: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2008, 08:13:56 PM »
Hmmm

Valid points, as are all your posts eldariel, Fu for you.

I'll take the walls, it's a good thing, also i wanted some lava filled maps, so the walls make for a plausible containement field.

I was already going to go with different terrains, I'm starting to work just now on them, Hadn't thought of the trap filled donjon ;) :P

Like i said, you have several fights to go in a single day, so once a day items or the like won't be that bad, it will make the first fights really hardcore since players will have maxed ressources, witch is what we want, we want the first fights, where everyone is participating, to be incredibly hardcore.  Maybe there will be a surprise break before the finale and thus the two contestants for the finale can rest before it.

I think I will make the players appear at opposite ends of the map, and then move on from there.  If the map hides sight for them, too bad.

Alastar

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Re: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2008, 08:40:26 PM »
Alright, some things have come up:

Crafting items with exp, how does it work, how should I deal with that?

Also: Both players will start, most of the time, unaware of each other, so how do i deal with that.  Do i ask one of the players to leave the room during the others turn, than note the location when it's over and vice-versa?

Also: suppose I have 13 participants, how do i deal with matches?  In a spirit of: if you win you get to fight another person right after this one and so on?  any insights?

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Re: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2008, 11:22:57 PM »
Alright, some things have come up:

Crafting items with exp, how does it work, how should I deal with that?

Also: Both players will start, most of the time, unaware of each other, so how do i deal with that.  Do i ask one of the players to leave the room during the others turn, than note the location when it's over and vice-versa?

Also: suppose I have 13 participants, how do i deal with matches?  In a spirit of: if you win you get to fight another person right after this one and so on?  any insights?

The crafting should work right out of the book if you allow it all, however I would think taking the craft feats would be suboptimal for an arena game.

You could also print out copies of the different maps and keep track of the movement on the sheets having the characters makeing appropriate checks as they get near each other.  Might be quicker than having the characters rotate like that.

I would probably reward the person who wins first by placing them in the next arena and just counting rounds as they wait for the next winner.  This would allow time for healing and also allow time for buffs to come down, making it both an advantage and disadvantage as buffs may expire whil you wait.

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Re: Arena fights (yay alastar is spam posting again)
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2008, 01:53:20 AM »
I'd make it that only 24 hr duration buffs should be allowed before a fight, and only buffs that you can cast yourself. 

I'd disallow self-crafted items, since CWI will easily break open the wealth-by-level at that point.

I've never done an arena where you keep the wounds from your previous fight.  It seems to me that it generally means that having a huge initiative to K-O your opponent just became more important than ever.  Wizards and other primary casters will almost certainly need scrolls to keep momentum going as well.