Author Topic: I don't like ardents, but...  (Read 3358 times)

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Ubernoob

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I don't like ardents, but...
« on: November 03, 2008, 12:28:20 AM »
Level 5 ardent, standard WBL.  Headed into slayer after level 6, but that doesn't matter much.

Build Stub: Necropolitan Kalashtar Ardent 5
Mantles (6 powers known)
Primary: Creation, Freedom
Secondary: Conflict, Natural World

Feats:
1) Boost Construct
Flaw:Weak Willed) Link Power
Flaw:Vulnerable) Track
3) Psicrystal Affinity

Powers:
1) Astral Construct
1) Psionic Minor Creation
1) Something
2) Hustle
2) Animal Affinity
3) Something

Major plan: Summon shit and run up covered in poison to kill things with poison.  This legit?  Room for level 5 improvement?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 03:48:25 PM by Ubernoob »
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Omen of Peace

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Re: I don't like ardents, but...
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2008, 01:02:53 AM »
The mantle setup reminds me of something. ;)

What are you going to use Psicrystal Affinity (not Solicit Psicrystal) for ? I assume you're going for Psionic Meditation at level 6 and that's why you took Track early rather than late.

"Covered in poison" is not covered by the rules, no. Just put some on your fists and you'll get one poisonous slam attack with each... probably.

Don't forget Tap Mantle as a possible feat. Guardian for Damp Power, Dispel Psionics and Wall of Ectoplasm can be worth it, as well as a few others... but I don't really know where you want to go with this character. Gishy, probably.
Prescience, Offensive is hardly my favorite power but it could be a better choice than Dimension Slide given that you already have 2 mobility powers.
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Ubernoob

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Re: I don't like ardents, but...
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2008, 01:12:46 AM »
The mantle setup reminds me of something. ;)

What are you going to use Psicrystal Affinity (not Solicit Psicrystal) for ? I assume you're going for Psionic Meditation at level 6 and that's why you took Track early rather than late.
I did mean to put psicrystal affinity.  Thanks.
Quote from: Omen
"Covered in poison" is not covered by the rules, no. Just put some on your fists and you'll get one poisonous slam attack with each... probably.
Something like that.
Quote
Don't forget Tap Mantle as a possible feat. Guardian for Damp Power, Dispel Psionics and Wall of Ectoplasm can be worth it, as well as a few others... but I don't really know where you want to go with this character. Gishy, probably.
Prescience, Offensive is hardly my favorite power but it could be a better choice than Dimension Slide given that you already have 2 mobility powers.
Offensive precog is weak.  Maybe a different third level power?  Any way we could reshuffle mantles to get a decent third level power?  I'm blanking.
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skydragonknight

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Re: I don't like ardents, but...
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2008, 02:18:15 AM »
Unfortunately the main Wizards site is down so the article is unaccessable, but the Mind's Eye Expanded Classes, Part 4 article has a notable feature for Ardents that removes quite a bit of the classes' primary weakness of poor flexibility:

Quote from: ACF3
Substitute Powers (EC4, web): Add powers to mantles with fewer than ten powers.

The powers added have to fit the mantle's theme, but this still opens up a lot of room if you can get it to pass.

I recommend investigating this diamond in the rough when the website clears up.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

awaken DM golem

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Re: I don't like ardents, but...
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008, 08:41:18 PM »
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a
When this first came out, the old psi- board kinda shrugged, so it's not well known. T_G's threads don't include this.
Quote from: Mind's Eye
Substitute Powers

Considering the esoteric nature of mantles, different ardents may have the same mantle but have different powers available to them. A mantle can have no more than ten powers in it, and if it has fewer, add further powers to fill the gaps if that mantle has no powers of that level. The powers need to fit the theme of the mantle at the DM's discretion. Otherwise, you can substitute a power of equal or lesser level. For example, the sense danger* power could be added to the Fate mantle as a 3rd-level power since only seven powers and no 3rd-level powers are in it, or the faint memory* power could replace escape detection in the Deception mantle.

*Found in Magic of Eberron

This basically means, pick whatever powers you want, give or take some arguing with dungeon master.
With 30+ powers from 3 mantles, there's almost no reason to get any more mantles from the class or tap mantle.
Dominant Ideal, on the same page, is pretty nice too.

Omen of Peace

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Re: I don't like ardents, but...
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2008, 08:57:48 PM »
That's because it depends so much on the DM. I changed my mantles before this article came out, so it was always possible with a flexible DM.
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Endarire

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Re: I don't like ardents, but...
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2008, 09:27:18 PM »
Dragonborn removes most your racial traits and transforms you into a Humanoid (dragonblood).  You may as well take Incarnate Construct from Savage Species 120.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Ubernoob

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Re: I don't like ardents, but...
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2008, 09:35:03 PM »
Dragonborn removes most your racial traits and transforms you into a Humanoid (dragonblood).  You may as well take Incarnate Construct from Savage Species 120.
Ugh.  Incarnate Construct.  I've never touched it before, but that's a damn fine point for this game.  I don't have a copy of savage species though.  Can someone run down the total stat/type/random effects a dragonborn incarnate construct warforged would have for me?
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AfterCrescent

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Re: I don't like ardents, but...
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2008, 09:44:34 PM »
Don't go incarnate on warforged if you're going dragonborn. You lose the living construct subtype when you go incarnate construct. You'll keep it via dragonborn, though.
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Ubernoob

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Re: I don't like ardents, but...
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2008, 09:45:42 PM »
Don't go incarnate on warforged if you're going dragonborn. You lose the living construct subtype when you go incarnate construct. You'll keep it via dragonborn, though.
So you can't do both?

I don't have savage species on my hard drive, so can someone just please tell me the most optimal warforged?
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AfterCrescent

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Re: I don't like ardents, but...
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2008, 09:46:46 PM »
Dragonborn Warforged, imo. You keep the living construct subtype (and all those nice warforged immunities).
The cake is a lie.
Need to play table top? Get your game on at:
Brilliant Gameologists' PbP Forum. Do it, you know you want to.
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The 13th Guard - An alternate history campaign idea.
Clerics just wake up one morning and decide they need to kick ass, and it needs to be kicked NOW. ~veekie

Omen of Peace

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Re: I don't like ardents, but...
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2008, 10:38:01 PM »
As an aside, I'll note that this is one of the cases where the FAQ went straight against the RAW (in the name of the RAI). The RAW is as Endarire mentioned: after the dragon-rebirth you are Humanoid (and it also says your type doesn't change so you had to be Humanoid beforehand).

But in this instance it makes CharOp easier so you don't see people calling the Sage dumb over it. :smirk
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skydragonknight

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Re: I don't like ardents, but...
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2008, 10:43:54 PM »
That's because it depends so much on the DM. I changed my mantles before this article came out, so it was always possible with a flexible DM.

I agree. The only reason I point out the article is because a lot of DMs won't touch a houserule(not that all alternate class features are houserules) unless they see it in print (or even in virtual print on the Wizards website).
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Omen of Peace

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Re: I don't like ardents, but...
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2008, 11:14:26 PM »
I agree. The only reason I point out the article is because a lot of DMs won't touch a houserule(not that all alternate class features are houserules) unless they see it in print (or even in virtual print on the Wizards website).
And in turn I agree. This series of articles is nice and deserves all the advertising it can get. :)
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