The Nudomancer

[AfterCrescent]

Actually, Gloom is +30, which is what the Pit Fiend grabs us with a -1 size mod. Add in size decreases, which will boost Dex and Size mods and it's a better overall choice...

[Ubernoob]

Actually, Gloom is +30, which is what the Pit Fiend grabs us with a -1 size mod. Add in size decreases, which will boost Dex and Size mods and it's a better overall choice...

Gloom is 25 HD though.  That excludes it for shapechange nabbing until we can consider ourselves to have 25 HD.  Even a bard can only push us to 22 HD.

[AfterCrescent]

Really? You can't pull a CL 25 at 20HD?

[Tshern]

It might be worth it. There's a Clerical domain that would give you enhancement bonus to charisma equal to your Cleric level.

Unfortunately Monk's belt and dorjes are not allowed. No items.

And Shapechange is CL, not HD dependant. Getting CL 25 though... +4 from Divine spell power brings me up to 21, Practiced spellcaster up to 24... Spell enhancer on top of that?

[Ubernoob]

Really? You can't pull a CL 25 at 20HD?

Inheritance clause much?

[carnivore]

It might be worth it. There's a Clerical domain that would give you enhancement bonus to charisma equal to your Cleric level.

Unfortunately Monk's belt and dorjes are not allowed. No items.

And Shapechange is CL, not HD dependant. Getting CL 25 though... +4 from Divine spell power brings me up to 21, Practiced spellcaster up to 24... Spell enhancer on top of that?

add Orange Prism Ioun Stone .... +1 caster level for only 30,000 gp

 

[SorO_Lost]

Dominate Person can strip people easy enough.
Oh, whoops. The title is so misleading.

Did something like Dwarf Saint Monk 1 / Swordsage 2 / Sorcerer 5 / (champions of valor sub) Paladin 2 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Fist of the Forest 1 / Arcane Duelist 2 / Deep Warden 2 already get listed?

+13 armor from greater luminous armor.
+9 from shield.
Wis to AC*3
Cha to AC*2 (*3 with Sirine's Grace, *4 with Divine Shield)
Con to AC*2
Access to Polymorph.

It could be handy if someone crunched the numbers on it.

[carnivore]

Moar! Edit: Moar moar!

Venerable Dragonborn Buomman Saint Cleric 15/Contemplative 1/Paragnostic Apostle 1/Cobra Strike Monk 1/Swordsage 2

Buffs active: Shapechange (Pit fiend), Divine agility, Shield of faith, Bite of the Werebear, Owl's insight, Shield, Greater luminous armor, Holy star, Owl's wisdom, Divine power.

Feats: Dodge (bonus from Monk), Cumbrous dodge, Divine spell power, Law devotion, Sacred vow, Vow of poverty, Vow of Nonviolence, Vow of Peace, Combat expertise, Improved combat expertise
-Armor bonus: +10 Paragnostic Apostle and Greater luminous armor. -4 to enemy melee attacks too.
-Shield bonus: +4 from Shield spell.
-Insight bonus: +16 from Saint template.
-Dexterity: +15, +8 from Pit fiend, +5 from Divine agility, +1 from Elation, +1 from Grace.
-Sacred: +7 from Law devotion.
-Unnamed: +48, Monk and Swordsage AC bonus, Balance domain power.
-Dodge: +23 from +2 from Cumbrous dodge, +20 from Improved Combat expertise, +1 from Haste.
-Natural: +30, +23 from Pit fiend and +7 enhancement from Bite of the Werebear.
-Circumstance: +6 from Holy star.
-Deflection: +5 Shield of Faith.
-Exalted: +2 from Vow of peace.
-Luck: +3 from Recitation.
-Size: -1

In another format:
[spoiler]
+10 (Base)
-1 (Size)
+10 (Armor)
+4 (Shield)
+7 (Sacred)
+30 (Natural)
+48 (Unnamed from wisdom)
+16 (Insight)
+23 (Dodge)
+6 (Circumstance)
+5 (Deflection)
+2 (Exalted)
+15 (Dexterity)
+3 (Luck)
[/spoiler]

At 178 now. Is there a better Shapechange form?

Edit: Moar^3! Change a level of Cleric for a level of Contemplative, get Balance domain and wisdom to AC one more time!

this looks good .... but i would suggest adjusting to this:

Venerable Dragonborn Buomman Saint Cleric 15/Contemplative 1/Paragnostic Apostle 1/Cobra Strike Monk 1/Fist of the Forest 1/ xxxxx ?

and use Ha Naga.... they get:Str 27, Dex 38, Con 32, and +24 natural armor

 

[Tshern]

Divine shield? I had forgotten about that one...

Carnivore: I'll consider it tomorrow. No time for concentrating right now. However, that would make the build VERY feat tight, but giving up Vow of Poverty would free a lot of feats...

Edit: Heck, I'll hit 200 tomorrow.

Venerable Dragonborn Buomman Saint Cleric 15/Contemplative 1/Paragnostic Apostle 1/Cobra Strike Monk 1/Fist of the Forest 1/Paladin 1

Assumes starting wis and cha 21. Domains: Balance, Animal and Lust. Lost Vow of peace, which sucks.

+10 (Base)
-8 (Size)
+10 (Armor)
+4 (Shield)
+7 (Sacred)
+32 (Natural)
+32 (Unnamed from wisdom)
+16 (Insight)
+23 (Dodge)
+6 (Circumstance)
+5 (Deflection)
+21 (Dexterity)
+3 (Luck)
+17 (Constitution)
+15 (Charisma)

That is 193, everyone.

[Cyrocloud]

Yeah Ha-naga is also colassal, get 120ft perfect flight, a DC 31 2d8 con poison, a mass charm monster at will, and I think there was a cust serv ruleing saying that you gain the spells of the thing you shapechanged into, so you would also gain level 21 sorrcerer casting to boot...

Do you loose the insight bonus to ac when you shapechange, and if you do keep it would it stack with Gloom?

[Tshern]

I am not using Gloom's insight bonus... Wish I somehow got Power attack and Divine shield in there.

[Shadowhunter]

[Omen of Peace]

@Tshern:
- you can't use Shapechange otherwise you'll lose Supernatural abilities (like the Saint Wis to AC IIRC). Draconic Polymorph works IIRC.
- you can't use Monk & Swordsage bonus at the same time. (RAW you can't, and if you turn to WotC for clarifying the stupid RAW you run into the Sage ruling) Outdated.

*****
Gloura 7/Cobra Strike Monk 1/Ur-Priest 8/Paranostic Apostle 1/Contemplative 1/Arcane Duelist 2 (with LA buyoff and some stuff shamelessly borrowed from Tshern's build )

Feats: SF: Evil, Iron Will, Law Devotion, Ascetic Mage, Mobility, Cumbrous Dodge, Divine Shield

Contemplative: Balance Domain

Starting Wis 23 and Cha 27 thanks to Gloura bonuses ; Dex 15 (Gloura has +10, age is -6... I don't know what Tshern went for). The 4 ability increases go to Cha. She somehow gets +5 inherent to all ability scores (chain-binding).
Cha: 27+4+5 inherent+4 insight Snowsong (Frostburn)+8 enhancement Nixie's Grace (SC 148)+2 GVoD (SC 231) = 50 -> +20
Dex: 15+5 inherent+10 Divine Agility (SC)+6 enhancement Nixie's Grace+4 GVoD = 40 -> +15
Wis: 23+5 inherent+10 Owl's Insight+4 enhancement Owl's Wisdom = 42 -> +16

AC: 10 + 20 Cha Unearthly Grace
+20 Cha + 1 Monk's bonus
+20 Cha Apparent defense
+20 Cha Divine Shield (shield)
+20 Cha Nixie's Grace (deflection)
+15 Dex
+ 7 Law Devotion (profane)
+ 8 Bite of the Wereboar (natural)
+ 3 Recitation (luck)
+ 6 Holy Star (circumstance)
+16 Wis Balance domain
+ 8 Greater Mage Armor w/ Paragnostic (armor)
+2 Cumbrous Dodge + 1 Haste (dodge)
=177

That's before I use Evil Elder feats and the Chaos Shuffle to get Improved Combat Expertise (where is it from btw ?). And a Fiend of Possession/Fiend of Corruption cohort to boost Cha by +7. Hey, you got give evil guys some stuff ! With those she's well above 200.

She doesn't have actual natural armor (only enhancement), nor morale, nor insight, nor size (how do you reach this size, Tshern ?). For insight I thought a fully augmented ML 20 tattoo of Defensive Precognition could be good... but it's kind of an item. I don't remember what spells give an insight bonus.

(Note: Unearthly Grace should probably be deflection, but with text trumping table it's unnamed )

[Tshern]

Inherent bonuses would actually solve my problems with my original build. At least some of it.

Venerable Dragonborn Buomman Saint Cleric 15/Contemplative 1/Paragnostic Apostle 1/Cobra Strike Monk 1/Swordsage 2

Buffs active: Draconic polymorph (Pit fiend), Divine agility, Shield of faith, Bite of the Werebear, Owl's insight, Shield, Greater luminous armor, Holy star, Owl's wisdom, Divine power. Toss in Greater visage of the deity too.

Wisdom score: 21+2+2+2+5+5+4+10+4+8=57 (18 base, 2 racial, 3 age, 5 levels, 5 inherent, 8 enhancement, 10 insight, 4 unnamed,). This includes the inherent bonus I had not used this far.

Feats: Dodge (bonus from Monk), Cumbrous dodge, Divine spell power, Law devotion, Sacred vow, Vow of poverty, Vow of Nonviolence, Vow of Peace, Combat expertise, Improved combat expertise
-Armor bonus: +10 Paragnostic Apostle and Greater luminous armor. -4 to enemy melee attacks too.
-Shield bonus: +16 from Shield spell, 12 from Divine shield)
-Insight bonus: +24 from Saint template.
-Dexterity: +16, +8 from Pit fiend, +5 from Divine agility, +1 from Elation, +1 from Grace, +1 Greater visage.
-Sacred: +7 from Law devotion.
-Unnamed: +72, Monk and Swordsage AC bonus, Balance domain power.
-Dodge: +23 from +2 from Cumbrous dodge, +20 from Improved Combat expertise, +1 from Haste.
-Natural: +31, +23 from Pit fiend and +7 enhancement from Bite of the Werebear, +1 from Greater visage of the deity.
-Circumstance: +6 from Holy star.
-Deflection: +5 Shield of Faith.
-Exalted: +2 from Vow of peace.
-Luck: +3 from Recitation.
-Size: -1

224. Leadership would solve this easily, because Force screen and Inertial armor can be used with Affinity field. If my point buy let me, I'd stuck in Power attack and Divine might. While Power attack is acquired from Bite of the Werebear, I still don't qualify for Divine shield.

Also the colossal size from from Ha Naga form.

Edit: Forgot Buomman's +2 to wisdom! Here we are, 200 exactly without inherent bonuses to dexterity.
Edit: Forgot Saint's +2 to wisdom! 204!
Edit: Forgot Vow of Poverty stat boosts. Now we are at no less than 220. Or without inherent bonuses to wisdom it drops down by eight to 212. Naked AC with no inherent bonuses 212.

Let's assume he has Divine shield and a charisma of plenty: 18 base, 3 age, 4 Saint, 6 enhancement (VoP), 4 Greater visage of the deity = 35, which gives us a modifier of 12. Here we are, 224 with 32 PB.

[carnivore]

just a quick note ..... VOP bonuses to attributes are Enhancement bonuses... thus some of your boosts dont stack

 

[Tshern]

So they are. Back to calculating.

-Armor bonus: +10 Paragnostic Apostle and Greater luminous armor. -4 to enemy melee attacks too.
-Shield bonus: +16 from Shield spell, 12 from Divine shield)
-Insight bonus: +24 from Saint template.
-Dexterity: +16, +8 from Pit fiend, +5 from Divine agility, +1 from Elation, +1 from Grace, +1 Greater visage.
-Sacred: +7 from Law devotion.
-Unnamed: +72, Monk and Swordsage AC bonus, Balance domain power.
-Dodge: +23 from +2 from Cumbrous dodge, +20 from Improved Combat expertise, +1 from Haste.
-Natural: +31, +23 from Pit fiend and +7 enhancement from Bite of the Werebear, +1 from Greater visage of the deity.
-Circumstance: +6 from Holy star.
-Deflection: +5 Shield of Faith.
-Exalted: +2 from Vow of peace.
-Luck: +3 from Recitation.
-Size: -1

That's 224 then. I think.

[Omen of Peace]

- You can't use Monk & Swordsage bonus at the same time. (RAW you can't since the Ss one only works while armored, and if you turn to WotC for clarifying the stupid RAW you run into the Sage ruling)

I didn't notice Shield stacked with Divine Shield - I'll have to include that. I'll switch to 32 PB at some point too.

[Tshern]

So you don't think the ruling regarding the SS AC bonus is the way it should be? At least to me it is damn clear that disallowing armorless fighting was a mere oversight, nothing more.

[Omen of Peace]

I definitely think it should. But if we use the WotC ruling indicating that it works unarmored, we have to use the WotC ruling indicating that it doesn't stack with monk...

[Tshern]

What ruling is that then? The ability is not identical to that of the Monk and CustServ already gave its reasonable clarification. Moreover, the CustServ response to the matter of the stacking of the said AC bonuses was positive as well...