Author Topic: Fighter/Wizard/Cleric Gish, Help Please  (Read 3542 times)

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EricaG

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Fighter/Wizard/Cleric Gish, Help Please
« on: October 29, 2008, 03:15:24 AM »
Hi, and thanks in advance for any help.
To set it up, i'll soon be playing in a 3.5, 12th lvl, evil campaign. Most books allowed, i just need to it run past the DM, but no psi, and no undead or dragons as race. Our party is currently looking to be a rogue/assassin, a necromancer, a minotaur meat-shield and maybe an evil cleric, besides myself. Everyone is trying to play something outside their usual type. I usually play a sometimes sneaky archer/melee type, I've never used spells (weird, i know). Personally, i want to stay a little within my comfort zone of archery, help our party healing and cast spells to stretch myself and work with another player's rp idea, and i also like to have all good saves.

Here's what I've built so far (levels not necessarily in order), please help with ideas, feats, spells, items and advice.

Race: Elf or Gray Elf
1. Fighter - Feat: Weapon Focus (Longbow), Bonus Feat: Point Blank Shot
2. Fighter - Bonus Feat: Precise Shot
3. Wizard - Feat: Insightful Reflexes, Bonus Feat: Scribe Scroll
4. Wizard - Ability: INT
5. Wizard
6. Arcane Archer - Feat: Zen Archery
7. Arcane Archer
8 Spellsword -Ability: WIS
9. Cleric - Feat: Dodge?
10. Cleric
11. Cleric
12. Mystic Theurge - Feat: Iron Will? Ability: INT
then
13. Mystic Theurge
14. Dragonslayer
15.+ Eldritch Knight?

thanks again!

AndyJames

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Re: Fighter/Wizard/Cleric Gish, Help Please
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2008, 03:34:43 AM »
First off, you don't need Fighter. A Cleric is just as good.

Second, why Wizard?

I'd go with the following (since you are 12th):

Dragonborn Human
Cloistered Cleric 5/any full-casting cleric PrC 5/Contemplative 2
Domains: Planning, Undeath

Feats:
D- Extend Spell, Extra Turning
B- Knowledge Devotion
H- Martial Weapon: Longbow
1- Persistent Spell (Complete Arcane)
3- Divine Metamagic: Persistent (Complete Divine)
6- Point Blank Shot
9- Zen Archery (Complete Divine or Warrior) <- Wis to-hit with ranged weapons instead of Dex
12- Rapid Shot

Persist Divine Power and you are set.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 03:37:15 AM by AndyJames »

Endarire

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Re: Fighter/Wizard/Cleric Gish, Help Please
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2008, 04:07:54 AM »
I'm unsure if Dragonborn is allowed, and even if so, it sucks on humans.

LN or LG Human Cloistered Cleric3/Church Inquisitor2/<Full Cleric Casting>5/Contemplative2.

If you can't take Church Inquisitor, nab Cloistered Cleric+2 instead.
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AndyJames

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Re: Fighter/Wizard/Cleric Gish, Help Please
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2008, 04:12:53 AM »
Dude, she said "evil campaign"...

Which also means drop the Dragonborn template. I was writing something else and then realised "EVIL" and changed halfway. Forgot to delete that.

Rebel7284

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Re: Fighter/Wizard/Cleric Gish, Help Please
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2008, 10:46:49 AM »
An Ur-Bard is amusing and can do everything and is a late bloomer (so good for a campaign starting at latter levels).
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Re: Fighter/Wizard/Cleric Gish, Help Please
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2008, 01:27:32 PM »
You're mixing too many classes : to be a gish, focus either on divine or arcane casting. If you go for divine, AJ's build is a good example of what to do. You can also go
Wizard 6/Swiftblade* 10/Abjurant Champion 4
(for instance - you can stick Arcane Archer in there if you don't mind losing more spellcasting) or
Fighter 1/Wizard 6/Spellsword 1/AbjCh 1/Arcane Archer 2/AbjCh +4/Eldritch Knight 5
if you choose to go arcane.

* the Swiftblade is available online - just google it.
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bkdubs123

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Re: Fighter/Wizard/Cleric Gish, Help Please
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2008, 02:41:36 PM »
The best way I can think of to do exactly what you want to do is run with some sort of Bard-gish, or some sort of Adept-gish. Now, you might be thinking, "Adept, WTF is he talking about, that's an NPC class!" True, true, but it's an NPC divine caster class with lots of arcane spells thrown in for good measure, and it's still better than a Fighter is half the time.

The best way to play a Bard-gish sort of character is either to go straight Bard 10/Sublime Chord 10, or to mix it up, but just a little bit, in going with something like Fighter 2/Bard 7/Spellsword 1/Sublime Chord 6/Abjurant Champion 4. You can pick up some interesting feats that synergize with your Bardic Music to make you more viable in combat. You'll get decent bardic music effects (Song of Timelessness is cool), caster level 18, 9th level spellcasting from wizard/sorcerer/bard lists, +15 BAB.

Now, an Adept-gish type isn't really all that hard to work with. If you could get into the Prestige Ranger that could be nice, but for some strange reason Adepts have Animal Trance, but not Calm Animals... other than that there are a couple options for you. Ranger 4/Adept 6/Hospitaler 10 will get you 13th level spellcasting and 17 BAB. Ranger 2/Adept 8/Hospitaler will bring you to 15th level spellcasting and 16 BAB (probably the better option).

I thought of another way to do this, but I'm not sure how good an idea it is. Duskblade 7/Divine Crusader 3/Mystic Theurge 10 will get you 15 BAB, 17th level Duskblade casting, 9th level divine spells (but drawn only from a single domain), and well, that's about it. Doesn't really seem worth it to me, but Arcane Channeling might make it worth it for you, especially if you can convince the DM to give you Arcane Channeling (full attack).

I think there's probably a better way to work with an Adept, I just haven't thought of it. But there you go, for what it's worth. Bard seems to be the best way to go for you. I suggest you look into it.

RobbyPants

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Re: Fighter/Wizard/Cleric Gish, Help Please
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2008, 02:44:12 PM »
Archivist 12 could get you a lot of the way to being a fighter/cleric/wizard in a single class.  If it's an evil game, sadly, that prevents you from taking levels of sacred exorsist to get Turn Undead (and fuel divine feats).  Still, with a good selection of cleric spells, you'll make for a pretty good fighter.  Seeing as how you can learn any divine spell, that drastically expands your spell list, and gets you many of the best arcane spells.

The nice thing about an approach like this is a combination of simplicity and 0-caster level loss.
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Rebel7284

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Re: Fighter/Wizard/Cleric Gish, Help Please
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2008, 02:52:19 PM »
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1032358

To expand on my ur-bard point, enjoy.  Can do DMM AND high level bard inspire courage/snowflake wardance things.
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EricaG

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Re: Fighter/Wizard/Cleric Gish, Help Please
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2008, 02:53:28 PM »
Wanted to say thanks for all of the suggestions. I'll look into them and reply again later.

bkdubs123

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Re: Fighter/Wizard/Cleric Gish, Help Please
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2008, 03:17:32 PM »
Snowflake Wardance in Frostburn is great for a Bard character that wants to fight more, as is Battle Dancer from PHB2, and Dragonfire Inspiration from Dragon Magic is nice if you want to grab the Dragonblooded Subtype. And all three can work together too! So, by spending two bardic musics you can add your Charisma modifier +2 to your attack rolls and your attacks deal 1d6 extra fire damage (2d6 at 8th, 3d6 at 14th, 4d6 at 20th)!

Doing something like this I think I'd recommend sticking to the Bard 10/Sublime Chord 10 route, or even just Bard 20. That way you get the full benefit of your Bardic Music.

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Fighter/Wizard/Cleric Gish, Help Please
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2008, 04:16:47 PM »
Me, being a fan of elegance, am going to suggest straight cloistered cleric. Check out some of the feats AndyJames suggested, they are all nice for a cleric-archer. One interesting piece of information is that you don't have the ability to spontaneous cast healing spells, because you are evil. You can bypass this by taking the ACF - spontaneous domain casting with the healing domain.

To the guys suggesting snowflake wardance - doesn't work with ranged weapons :p
Btw rebel, for that build to work you probably need to pay your DM :P
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bkdubs123

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Re: Fighter/Wizard/Cleric Gish, Help Please
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2008, 05:05:42 PM »
Ah, crap! Yep, I keep forgetting that he wants to be an archer! Grr! Magic and archery don't mix! That's what 3.5 has taught me!

woodenbandman

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Re: Fighter/Wizard/Cleric Gish, Help Please
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2008, 09:00:18 PM »
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1354.20

Also, a Cleric archer with DMM will do fine, as other people have said. Persist Divine Power, Righteous Might, and other various buff spells, such as Lesser and/or Greater visage of the deity.

Ubernoob

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Re: Fighter/Wizard/Cleric Gish, Help Please
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2008, 09:12:20 PM »
My alt at WotC got your thread.
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