Author Topic: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)  (Read 13396 times)

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StPeteGamer

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Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« on: October 27, 2008, 06:25:11 PM »
Originally posted by McJarvis
Important: I am assuming that when taking levels in Walker in the Waste you do not assume the LA of the Dry Lich template. This has been argued to death, and I understand both sides of the issue. I just don't think it's worthy of argueing about anymore: this is a RAI area, not RAW.

The original build here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=452344)was rather dirty and un-polished, so I thought I would post the most current form of him.(And to-date most optimized version of him)

What this build is:

Mr. Icy Hot is an incredibly powerful cleric build that is meant to be played at a table-top session. He is not a game-breaker like Pun Pun or the swarm mage fellow, but he is a powerhouse in his own right. Read on if you've ever wanted a powerful melee/ranged/tank/primary caster build.

Some CharOp board members have issues with the build, but a majority do not.

I assume that the Walker in the Waste prestige class does not give you a +5 level adjustment at the 10th level of it. If your DM sees things differently, than Mr. Icy Hot isn't for you. Make sure to point out to your DM that Dragon Disciples don't assume the LA of the half-dragon template at tenth level.(this is confirmed in the official DnD 3.5 FAQ)

I use the written rules of the Monk's Belt from the DMG which grants Wisdom to AC. If your DM sees things differently, then a +5 Mithril Breastplate and +5 heavy shield by level 20 can nicely replace it, but your touch AC will leave something to be desired.

In this build I qualify Mr. Icy Hot for the Walker in the Waste prestige class by 4th level- but this particular item isn't important at all.(Since the build is essentially Cleric 10 and Walker in the Waste 10, you can just wait & take walker at 6th level, though the build gets significantly stronger after Walker 10 has been reached)

Now that those nasty items are out of the way(and only one actually would invalidate the build!), on to the good stuff.

A taste of what is to come:
For ending stats of:

BAB: 20 [[Divine Power sets to Character level]]

hp: 404 [[undead hit dice(12+6.5*19)+divine power(18)+necrotic empowerment(100)+unholy toughness from dry lich
template(7 * 20)+Algid Enhancement 4.5+6]]

With typical armor/shield:
AC: 51 [[10+17(Natural Armor)+1(Dex)-1 (size)+10(magical breastplate)+7(magical shield), +7 deflection Algid Enhancement]]
natural armor: base 1 +2 rigteous Might + 5 dry lich + 8 necrotic empowerment+1 Visage of Deity
touch 17
flat footed 50

...or with monk's belt: (ie- without armor/shield & with magical vestment cast)

AC 54
Touch AC 32
Flat-footed AC 53

Bat-like wings and fly speed of 60ft(ave maneuverability)
Damage reduction 9/good
Damage reduction 10/magic and bludgeoning
Fast healing 2(in arid environment)
undead immunities
immunity to cold
immunity to fire
resistance 10 to acid, electricty
Spell Resistance 25

Str: 28 [[base 12+6 Divine Power+2(dry lich)+4 Visage of Deity, greater]]
Dex: 24 [[base 12+8(Necrotic Empowerment)+4 Visage of Deity, greater]]
Con: -- [[base 12+2(righteous might), then there is no con due to lichdom]]
Int: 22 [[base 10+8(Necrotic Empowerment)+4 Visage of Deity, greater]]
Wis: 40 [[base 18+4(dry lich)+8(Necrotic Empowerment)+5 ability ups+5 inherient]]
Cha: 24 [[base 14+2(dry lich) + 6(enhancement/cloak of charisma)+2 Visage of Deity, greater]]


Mr. Icy Hot(Reborn)
Books required: Complete Warrior, Libris Mortis, Sandstorm, Frostburn, Complete Divine, Complete Arcane, Core books. All non-core material is referenced in the post below.
Race: AsheratiSandstormp
Build: Cleric 10/Walker in the WasteSandstorm 10
Domains: SandSandstorm, PlanningComplete Warrior

Stats:

36 point buy

Str: 12
Dex: 12
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 18
Cha: 14

Build with feats:

Cleric 1 Heat EnduranceSandstormp(Racial), Extend Spell(Domain Bonus), Extra Turning
Cleric 2
Cleric 3 Persistant SpellComplete Arcane (Character 3rd)
Cleric 3/Walker in the Waste 1
Cleric 3/Walker in the Waste 2
Cleric 3/Walker in the Waste 3 Divine Metamagic(Persistant Spell)Complete Divine (Character 6th) [[Divine Favor Persisted]]
Cleric 3/Walker in the Waste 4
Cleric 3/Walker in the Waste 5 [[Divine Power Persisted]]
Cleric 3/Walker in the Waste 6 Craft Wondrous Item(Character 9th)
Cleric 3/Walker in the Waste 7 [[Righteous Might Persisted]]
Cleric 3/Walker in the Waste 8
Cleric 3/Walker in the Waste 9 Mother CystLibris Mortis(Character 12th) [[Mantle of the Icey SoulFrostburn]] [[Visage of the DeityComplete Divine Persisted]] [[Cast Algid EnhancementFrostburn]]
Cleric 3/Walker in the Waste 10
Cleric 4/Walker in the Waste 10
Cleric 5/Walker in the Waste 10 Extra Turning
Cleric 6/Walker in the Waste 10
Cleric 7/Walker in the Waste 10 [[Necrotic EmpowermentLibris Mortis Persisted in place of Divine Favor]]
Cleric 8/Walker in the Waste 10 Leadership (Or Zen Archery or Power Attack?)
Cleric 9/Walker in the Waste 10 [[Mantle of the Firey SoulSandstorm]] [[Greater Visage of the DeityComplete Divine Persisted in place of Visage of the Deity]]
Cleric 10/Walker in the Waste 10



General Equipment: (when you need to buy it)

Probable Weaponry:
Morning Star, 8 gp
Heavy Steel Shield, 20 gp
whatever armor

Or: Monk's Belt. With 40 Wis that's a +16 to AC, and with Magical Vestment that's a +4 on top of that.

Needed for Divine Metamagic:

8th:Nightstick 7,200gp((only necessary if you want both divine power and favor))
10th: Nightstick 7,200gp((for Righteous Might))
17th level: Cloak of Charisma +6 36,000gp ((for necrotic Empowerment))
18th level: 4 Nightsticks 28,800 gp ((for leadership tricks//buffing(see equipped build)))

Needed for Dry Lich template: (Canopic Jars)
12th level:Baboon Jar, Jackal Jar(20,000 gp crafting)
13th level:Vulture Jar, Falcon Jar, Human Jar.(30,000 gp crafting)


I have not played any games above 10th level or so since 3.5 came out(not playing D&D like I used to), so I'm not the best person to get advice from regarding equipment that is useful to clerics. Regardless, here are a list of the buffs you get: (and when you get them)

6th: Divine Favor: +1 to attack rolls & weapon damage per three caster levels(+3 max)
8th: Divine Power: +6 str/+1 hp per caster level & BAB becomes your character level
9th: Righteous Might: Become large sized, +4 str, +2 con, +2 natural armor, -1 to attack(size), -1 to ac(size), damage reduction:

3/good
12th caster level: 6/good
15th caster level: 9/good
12th: Immune to cold
12th: Algid Enhancement: Ends up being +1d8 +7 hp, +8 deflection AC, +8 enhancement to hit
13th: Dry Lich Template(hit die increased to d12, lots of buffs(too many to mention here))
17th: Necrotic EmpowermentLibris Mortis: + 8 Dex/Int/Wis/Natural Armor, +5 Fort Save, +100 hp.
19th: Immune to fire
19th: Greater Visage of Deity. Fly speed of 60ft, +1 natural armor, resistance 10 electricty, acid, spell resistance 25, +4 str, +4 dex, +4 int, +2 cha

For ending stats of:

BAB: 20 [[Divine Power sets to Character level]]

hp: 404 [[undead hit dice(12+6.5*19)+divine power(18)+necrotic empowerment(100)+unholy toughness from dry lich template(7 * 20)+Algid Enhancement 4.5+6]]

AC: 51 [[10+17(Natural Armor)+1(Dex)-1 (size)+10(magical breastplate)+7(magical shield), +7 deflection Algid Enhancement]]
natural armor: base 1 +2 rigteous Might + 5 dry lich + 8 necrotic empowerment+1 Visage of Deity
touch 17
flat footed 50

or with monk's belt: (ie- without armor/shield & with magical vestment cast)

54, 32 touch, 53 flat footed.

Bat-like wings and fly speed of 60ft(ave maneuverability)
Damage reduction 9/good
Damage reduction 10/magic and bludgeoning
Fast healing 2(in arid environment)
undead immunities
immunity to cold
immunity to fire
resistance 10 to acid, electricty
Spell Resistance 25

Str: 28 [[base 12+6 Divine Power+2(dry lich)+4 Visage of Deity, greater]]
Dex: 24 [[base 12+8(Necrotic Empowerment)+4 Visage of Deity, greater]]
Con: -- [[base 12+2(righteous might), then there is no con due to lichdom]]
Int: 22 [[base 10+8(Necrotic Empowerment)+4 Visage of Deity, greater]]
Wis: 46 [[base 18+4(dry lich)+8(Necrotic Empowerment)+5 ability ups+5 inherient+6 enhancement]]
Cha: 24 [[base 14+2(dry lich) + 6(enhancement/cloak of charisma)+2 Visage of Deity, greater]]

There is quite a bit of free spending money for fancy magical armor&shield, or a weapon of your choosing, etc,etc...and if you give him combat expertise & improved combat expertise as one of his ending feats, he could easily boost his AC by 20 and be the parties tank :) (albeit late in the game to become the mega tank, it's still a fun idea)

Also, you can easily Gestalt this guy since he has 7 free levels at the end that are prestige-class free.


------------------------
------------------------
------------------------
------------------------

A fully equipped Mr. Icy Hot:

Fill in Leadership as one of the empty feats up there and one more extra turning feat. You'll see why in a minute.

Level 20:

760,000 gp

Necessary:

50,000gp- Canopic Jars
14,400gp- 2 Nightsticks
36,000gp- Cloak of Charisma +6

Left: 659,600 gp

+5 Mithral Breastplate- 29,200
+5 Heavy Steel Shield- 25,170

605,230

+5 Morning Star, Flaming and Frost- 98,000gp


506,910 gp left

2 Bracelets of Spell SharingDMG2- 120,000 gp
3 more Nightsticks- 21,600gp

365,310 gp left

belt of str +6, 36,000
Periapt of wis +6, 36,000

293,310 gp left

Tome of Understanding +5(why not?)-137,500gp

155,810gp left

karma beads - 20,000gp

135,810gp left

Now, get a cohort of your choosing. Using your 2 pairs of bracelets of Spell sharing(only need 1 bracelet per person to work, can put a bracelet on both hands) use them to share a casting of persistant Necrotic Empowerment and Rigteous Might.(Divine Power if cohort is not a combat type) Use the remaining gold to outfit your cohort. The braclets divide the duration of the persistant spells by two, but that's what the extra nightsticks are for.


Now your stats are as follows:

BAB: 20 [[Divine Power sets to Character level]]

hp: 405 [[undead hit dice(12+6.5*19)+divine power(18)+necrotic empowerment(100)+unholy toughness from dry lich template(7 * 20)+Algid Enhancement 4.5+7]]

AC: 56 [[10+17(Natural Armor)+5(Dex)-1 (size)+10(Breastplate)+7(heavy shield)+ 8 deflection Algid Enhancement]]
natural armor: base 1 +2 rigteous Might + 5 dry lich + 8 necrotic empowerment + 1 Greater Visage of Deity

Damage reduction 9/good
Damage reduction 10/magic and bludgeoning
Fast healing 2(in arid environment)
undead immunities
60 ft fly(ave) : bat wings
resistance 10 to acid and electricity
SR 25

Str: 34 [[base 12+6 Divine Power+2(dry lich)+4 Greater Visage of Deity +6(enhancement)]]
Dex: 24 [[base 12+8(Necrotic Empowerment)+4 Greater visage of Deity]]
Con: - [[base 12+2(righteous might)-- but there is none since you're a lich]]
Int: 22 [[base 10+8(Necrotic Empowerment)+4 greater visage of deity]]
Wis: 46 [[base 18+4(dry lich)+8(Necrotic Empowerment)+5 ability ups+6 enhancement+5 inherient]]
Cha: 24 [[base 14+2(dry lich) + 6(enhancement)+2 greater visage of deity]]

Melee damage:

2d6 Piercing/Bludgeoning + 1d6 Fire + 1d6 Cold + 12(strength) + +5(+5 weapon)= 31 dmg per hit. 4 attacks per round translates to 136 damage per round in melee, if I hit
Attack bonus of +45/+40/+35/+30 ( 20(BAB)+5(magic)+12(strength)+8 Algid Enhancement)

Ranged Damage: (Warning: I'm using a +5 Composite(+9) Str Longbow for these calculations. It costs 51,300 gp)

With Zen Archery he gets a ranged attack of +44/+39/+34/+29.(20BAB+15wis+8 Algid Enhancement+5(magic)-4(non proficient) Make it a +5 longbow and that's 2d6+14 damage a shot(9str+5 enhancement) (we're assuming a Composite(+9str) Longbow is possible). 84 damage per round ranged.

Then on top of that you could have a cohort that is necrotic empowered/divine power'd.(but sacrifice the ranged capabilities)

His spells have a DC of 25 + Spell level(so level 9 spells have a DC of 34). ((10+15wis))

If you don't want to mess with leadership, I suppose Zen Archery wouldn't be a bad feat choice either(though it isn't technically a cleric archer build, he could be with that high wis and str and BAB) Dedicate some funds to a sweet bow and you'll have at least a +40 to attack, even though you're non-proficient! (20 BAB+15(Wis)-4(Not Proficeint)+5 enhancement) Damage with a composite longbow would be 1d8+9, and you're attack ratings would go +44/+39/+34/+29.

Another alternative to Zen Archery/Leadership is power attack. Your attack bonus is pretty big by the end of the build, so sacrificing attack bonus for +2 damage a shot is a pretty good deal.(+2 per 1 sac since monk's belt lets you wield your weapon two handed) ~ Thanks GaffeR for the catch


Other thanks: Thanks to FriendlyFrog for pointing out the Algid Enhancement(I doubt I would ever have found it otherwise), and thanks to Prominence for pointing me to the final prestige class of the build.(after an incredibly long wait for such a decision to be made)

StPeteGamer

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Re: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 06:27:13 PM »
This is a build I am currently playing, and the first I stole from the CO boards  ;)   So I wanted to repost it here before it disappears into glemax nothingness.  The flavor of the build really fit my campaign and what I wanted out of my character so that's why I stole it.  All credit goes to McJarvis reposted without his permission....  Enjoy

http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-693624

That is a link to the original post if you would like to check the conversation about it.  It is archived however so the reading is a little bit screwy....
« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 06:29:58 PM by StPeteGamer »

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Re: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2008, 08:52:21 PM »
Mantle of the Icy Soul has been updated in the SC and is now 1) non-instantaneous 2) incompatible with Mantle of the Fiery Spirit since it "cancels" the fire subtype (and doesn't grant the cold subtype in that case). That kinda interferes with the Icy Hot flavour.

Mantle of the Icy Soul + Algid Enhancement is a nice trick that I had forgotten. Other than that it's a persisting cleric.

The build would be better served by other PrCs rather than more cleric levels. Contemplative, Chruch Inquisitor, etc... the usual culprits.
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woodenbandman

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Re: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2008, 08:57:49 PM »
Divine Power is an enhancement bonus, perhaps you should look at righteous might?

Also, I would rule that you do indeed incur a level adjustment, although if I felt generous I'd reduce it by two since you lost 2 caster levels.

Who finds it ridiculous that the class that's a lich (dread necro or something) doesn't actually by RAW assume the lich template? I think the class is in libris mortis, by the way.

EDIT: No, Heroes of Horror.

Brainpiercing

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Re: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2008, 10:21:03 PM »
Righteous Might is so out of date.

By Lvl 20 you are of course casting Giant Size.

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Re: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2008, 10:24:47 PM »
But Divine power gives enhancement bonus to STR, thus your score is off by 6.

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Re: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2008, 12:40:59 AM »
Divine Power is an enhancement bonus, perhaps you should look at righteous might?

Also, I would rule that you do indeed incur a level adjustment, although if I felt generous I'd reduce it by two since you lost 2 caster levels.

Who finds it ridiculous that the class that's a lich (dread necro or something) doesn't actually by RAW assume the lich template? I think the class is in libris mortis, by the way.

EDIT: No, Heroes of Horror.

Walker in the Waste is in Sandstorm.
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Re: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2008, 01:45:18 PM »
I'd just like to point out that the Ghost Ward property can save your touch AC in the absence of a Monk's Belt. Also, I'm fairly certain Bracers of Armor do not invalidate the Monk's Belt.
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Re: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2008, 02:07:18 PM »
You are correct.
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Re: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2008, 06:59:06 PM »
I jkow WitW is Sandstorm, I was talking about Dread Necromancer. But as it stands, neither of them assumes the LA of the template in their class, and in fact the Dread Necromancer doesn't technically assume the template, although it's clearly implied.

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Re: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2008, 07:31:09 PM »
I figured out what you meant when I reread the post this morning.  :blush

Carry on.
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Re: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2008, 06:39:23 PM »
Why on earth would you take 10 levels of the PrC if you have pay with an additional lost caster level and 4 levels of LA when you finish it?  Besides RAW it does not say that you pay the LA so it is clearly a RAI decision.  Yes Dread Nec is another class that recieves a like ability and they should definetly get it if they stick in that class untill level 20 because that class eats it  after level 8 or 12, I forget which.  So if you actually stay in it you should definetly get the free template.  Besides for the WiW it is not really "free" as you have to take a feat, craft wonderous, and must come up with somewhere between 90-120k gold before you assume the template. 
Sorry about the out of date spells this build is probably fairly out of date if you guys suggest ways to fix the flaws I will definetly update it to keep it current....

woodenbandman

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Re: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2008, 09:14:48 PM »
Well RAW it says that you assume the template, which happens to have a +4 level adjustment. It never, ever, ever, ever mentions changing the template to not have a template.

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Re: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2008, 05:31:13 AM »
Well RAW it says that you assume the template, which happens to have a +4 level adjustment. It never, ever, ever, ever mentions changing the template to not have a template.

There is a sort of a consensus that you never assume the LA associated with templates gained by class levels. Where this is to be found by raw, however, I don't know.

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Re: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2008, 10:49:43 AM »
The clearest representation was the DnD 3.5 FAQ stating that the Dragon Disciple does not assume the LA from the template gained there. It would stand to reason that no other class that gains a template would gain an LA either. Especially as application of a +4 LA template with that LA active would seriously skew the CR and XP curve, both individually and with regards to the rest of the party.
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Re: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2008, 01:44:40 PM »
Well RAW it says that you assume the template, which happens to have a +4 level adjustment. It never, ever, ever, ever mentions changing the template to not have a template.

There is a sort of a consensus that you never assume the LA associated with templates gained by class levels. Where this is to be found by raw, however, I don't know.
Dragon Disciple is the only example I can think of off hand, but I'm pretty sure there are at least 1 or 2 more.
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Re: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2008, 02:33:55 PM »
Well RAW it says that you assume the template, which happens to have a +4 level adjustment. It never, ever, ever, ever mentions changing the template to not have a template.

The class IS the level adjustment.  Instead of the template's +4 level adjustment, you take 10 levels in a PrC that provides the template.
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StPeteGamer

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Re: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2008, 10:31:24 AM »
Well RAW it says that you assume the template, which happens to have a +4 level adjustment. It never, ever, ever, ever mentions changing the template to not have a template.

The class IS the level adjustment.  Instead of the template's +4 level adjustment, you take 10 levels in a PrC that provides the template.

This was my understanding of the rules also. 

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Re: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2008, 02:39:17 PM »
Hmm. I did not know of this dragon disciple thing. I suppose it would behoove me to allow it, in that case.

Is there another way to assume the template?

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Re: Walker in the Waste(Mr. Icy Hot Revised)
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2008, 03:51:03 PM »
Hmm. I did not know of this dragon disciple thing. I suppose it would behoove me to allow it, in that case.

Is there another way to assume the template?

Apparently not.
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Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

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