Author Topic: The Best Dread Necromancer Advanced Learning Spells  (Read 61770 times)

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Brainpiercing

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Re: The Best Dread Necromancer Advanced Learning Spells
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2008, 03:54:10 PM »
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Haunt Shift:  This gem from Libris Mortis is wonderful for anyone with a good imagination.  Getting tired of enemies using Turn Undead?  Create a statue of a skeletal warrior out of adamantine, then use Haunt Shift to animate the thing and send it into battle.  It's a construct now with a Hardness of 20.  No one ever expects that.  Great for making ultra tough tanks... or traveling around in a haunted carriage for pure style points (note: a Porpoise skeleton has very few HD and a movement speed of 80, making it perfect for haunting your carriage).  Note, if you're creating battle minions with this spell through the use of statues, take note of the spells Shrink Item (Permanent!), Invisibility (which can be made Permanent on objects), Augment Object, and Hardness, as well as the psionic power Matter Manipulation.  You can't have these spells, but a friendly Wizard, Archivist or Psion might, and this can create all sorts of fun involving invisible size changing minions with a hardess in the hundreds.
How does this work? You would have to create a fully movable statue from adamantine, because the spell itself has a limitation of 9HD per undead, and only 10HD Haunts (with Cha >=17) can actually "become" animated objects from non-mobile objects. Is there something I am missing?

JaronK

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Re: The Best Dread Necromancer Advanced Learning Spells
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2008, 05:36:58 PM »
How does this work? You would have to create a fully movable statue from adamantine, because the spell itself has a limitation of 9HD per undead, and only 10HD Haunts (with Cha >=17) can actually "become" animated objects from non-mobile objects. Is there something I am missing?

Ah, yes, I probably should have included this part.  Haunt Shift is complex, and how to use it is complex too.  In this case, you need to have lower HD when the spell is cast, then higher HD after it's cast, so as to become a 10HD+Haunting.  What you do is this: first, you need someone who's undead and has 17+ Cha, and 10 or more HD.  This can be a party member or a Rebuked Undead or whatever.  Now, assuming they're evil, give them some Holy Arrows, enough to bring them down to 8HD (which  is the spell's limit, not 9, btw).  Now, for all intents and purposes (including spells, which is what's important here) they have 8HD.  Cast Haunt Shift.  Now have them manifest and drop the arrows (or, depending on the DM's ruling, the arrows might not come with them anyway).  You now have yourself a Haunting that can actually animate the thing.  Tada!

The other easy method, however, is simply to make a Skeleton out of Adamantine, instead of a full statue body.  Lower level hauntings can already move something in the way that it normally moves (they can make a cape flow about or a wheel turn) so as long as all the joints on the thing are connected by bendable wire or something like that, the skeleton can move naturally.  That way you can use low level hauntings or low charisma hauntings without any problems.  Basically, it would move just like a normal person's skeleton.

JaronK

JaronK

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Re: The Best Dread Necromancer Advanced Learning Spells
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2008, 11:45:06 PM »
Hokay, I think I've got a pretty good listing (though I feel like there's probably some high level spells I'm missing).  But it's pretty much done now.

JaronK

Brainpiercing

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Re: The Best Dread Necromancer Advanced Learning Spells
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2008, 04:44:31 AM »

Ah, yes, I probably should have included this part.  Haunt Shift is complex, and how to use it is complex too.  In this case, you need to have lower HD when the spell is cast, then higher HD after it's cast, so as to become a 10HD+Haunting.  What you do is this: first, you need someone who's undead and has 17+ Cha, and 10 or more HD.  This can be a party member or a Rebuked Undead or whatever.  Now, assuming they're evil, give them some Holy Arrows, enough to bring them down to 8HD (which  is the spell's limit, not 9, btw).  Now, for all intents and purposes (including spells, which is what's important here) they have 8HD.  Cast Haunt Shift.  Now have them manifest and drop the arrows (or, depending on the DM's ruling, the arrows might not come with them anyway).  You now have yourself a Haunting that can actually animate the thing.  Tada!

The other easy method, however, is simply to make a Skeleton out of Adamantine, instead of a full statue body.  Lower level hauntings can already move something in the way that it normally moves (they can make a cape flow about or a wheel turn) so as long as all the joints on the thing are connected by bendable wire or something like that, the skeleton can move naturally.  That way you can use low level hauntings or low charisma hauntings without any problems.  Basically, it would move just like a normal person's skeleton.

JaronK
Hmm, the first technique I still find doubtful (well, I belong to the people who think undead should never get negative levels unless there is a clause in another rule which states that this ability penetrates their immunity). But that's just me, and no need to discuss it in detail - of course if you could point me to said clause that would be fine, because it just increased my necro playing options by a ton. Of course... Spark of Life + Holy Arrows works, if you assume that weakness to energy drain means negative levels, too. Unfortunately you need a cleric again to do it, or get this comparatively useless spell, too.

The second option I would say works, but should be run by a DM, because the resulting adamantine skeleton could have a higher CR than the host undead, ergo be inelligible by Haunt Shift. Of course, the DM may just not care to even evaluate its CR, since it's a PC minion.

JaronK

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Re: The Best Dread Necromancer Advanced Learning Spells
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2008, 02:05:29 AM »
Hmm, the first technique I still find doubtful (well, I belong to the people who think undead should never get negative levels unless there is a clause in another rule which states that this ability penetrates their immunity).  But that's just me, and no need to discuss it in detail - of course if you could point me to said clause that would be fine, because it just increased my necro playing options by a ton.

Holy arrows do have that clause, actually.  Specifically, from the DMG, page 225:  "This negative level never results in actual level loss, but it cannot be overcome in any way..."  Ask and thou shalt recieve!

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The second option I would say works, but should be run by a DM, because the resulting adamantine skeleton could have a higher CR than the host undead, ergo be inelligible by Haunt Shift. Of course, the DM may just not care to even evaluate its CR, since it's a PC minion.

Actually, Animated Objects have a CR set by their size only, not their hardness, so it's okay as long as the CR of the skeleton is high enough for the size of the statue skeleton.

JaronK

Brainpiercing

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Re: The Best Dread Necromancer Advanced Learning Spells
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2008, 06:53:27 AM »
Holy arrows do have that clause, actually.  Specifically, from the DMG, page 225:  "This negative level never results in actual level loss, but it cannot be overcome in any way..."  Ask and thou shalt recieve!
Ah, but you see, "cannot be overcome" implies that is does actually initially happen, whereas with immunity it would never happen, hence the clause would not even take effect. But whatever the case, Spark of Life does work without removing undead type, hence I'm satisfied with that.
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Actually, Animated Objects have a CR set by their size only, not their hardness, so it's okay as long as the CR of the skeleton is high enough for the size of the statue skeleton.

JaronK
Dang I missed that any object animated by a haunt-shift is an animated object, not just ones animated by HD>9 haunts.

JaronK

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Re: The Best Dread Necromancer Advanced Learning Spells
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2008, 03:24:22 AM »
Well, I think cannot be overcome in any way overrides immunity, since immunity is actually very often overridden in this game (Searing Spell, for example).  It's a bit of an immovable object/irresistable force thing, but in D&D things tend to side on the irresistable force side of things.

But yes, if your DM insists, Spark of Life would do the trick.

RobbyPants

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Re: The Best Dread Necromancer Advanced Learning Spells
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2010, 04:08:34 PM »
Thread necromancy on a thread about... necromancy!  :evillaugh


Kelgor's Grave Mist.  Players Handbook 2 has this gem, which is a long range AoE that fatigues enemies and deals 1d6 cold damage per turn.  Remember that skeletons are immune to both fatigue and cold damage, making this a great one to throw into a fight.  No save, too.  Just create an area of the battlefield that keeps enemies from charging.  It's a wonderful way to slow down an enemy Frenzied Berserker.  
I love this one too, and I took it for my current DN.  One thing to note: it only affects living creatures.  So, while skeletons are immune to the cold and fatigue because they're skeletons, they're also immune by virtue of being undead.  This means you can cast it around your zombies too.  Sadly, it won't damage unliving creatures, though.


Undead Torch:  Originally from Ghostwalk, this spell is a one round per level buff of an undead critter that causes the critter to deal an extra 2d4 damage to with all melee attacks, and if the critter dies, people passing through the space take damage.  Generally, this is unimpressive, but on a hydra the extra 5 damage per hit adds up fast.  I'd have a tough time taking this over Black Sand for the purposes of buffing undead, though.
The SpC updated this to 2d6 damage per attack.  I was already considering this for my level 8 Advanced Learning.  I have a troll skeleton that would love it.  :smirk
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RobbyPants

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Re: The Best Dread Necromancer Advanced Learning Spells
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2011, 03:53:45 PM »
#4 (Level 8-)

...

Horrid Wilting:  Out of the PHB, this spell offers something few Dread Necromancer spells have: very long range.  Plus, it hits a lot of targets (everyone within a 60ft area) without hitting friendly types.  So, if you wanted to be a blaster, this would be the spell for you.  That said, 75 damage (on average) rarely is worth while at this level, but it's great for clearing out low level enemies or enemies already weakened by other effects, and a Greater Wand of Maximize would get this thing up to 120 damage per target, which isn't too shabby.  A second blast would finish off the lot of them.
Don't they get this one on their 8th level list already?
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Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
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Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
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I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
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When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
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Scrollreader

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Re: The Best Dread Necromancer Advanced Learning Spells
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2011, 06:23:06 PM »
If a dread necromancer were to grab a drake helm, from Eberron, which adds additional arcane spells they can cast, any recommendations (besides magic circle) from outside necromancy which would be particularly useful?  (Armor of Darkness would be amazing, if only it were arcane).

Psithief

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Re: The Best Dread Necromancer Advanced Learning Spells
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2011, 02:11:22 PM »
This is about dread necromancers, not thread necromancers.

I can see how you'd get confused.

Brainpiercing

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Re: The Best Dread Necromancer Advanced Learning Spells
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2011, 08:05:26 PM »
This is about dread necromancers, not thread necromancers.

I can see how you'd get confused.
Hah, honourable tradition on all necromancer threads...

snakeman830

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Re: The Best Dread Necromancer Advanced Learning Spells
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2011, 08:07:05 PM »
If a dread necromancer were to grab a drake helm, from Eberron, which adds additional arcane spells they can cast, any recommendations (besides magic circle) from outside necromancy which would be particularly useful?  (Armor of Darkness would be amazing, if only it were arcane).
(Greater) Teleport is a biggie.
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