Author Topic: What's your least favorite part of D&D?  (Read 26014 times)

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Sunic_Flames

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Re: What's your least favorite part of D&D?
« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2008, 07:59:12 PM »
Well that fixes the BAB problem, and with that kinda accuracy hitting with the lesser attacks is easy.
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Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

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Sinfire Titan

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Re: What's your least favorite part of D&D?
« Reply #61 on: October 13, 2008, 08:04:17 PM »
Well that fixes the BAB problem, and with that kinda accuracy hitting with the lesser attacks is easy.

Yeah, I hear having an attack bonus in the 60's is really nice. One of the reasons Gestalt makes Incarnum so much better is that you get Full BAB on top of that.

Getting Full BAB without that build simply requires a Wand of Divine Power (or Scroll, if for some reason I have overlooked you can't get a Wand of Divine Power) and the Mage's Spectacles instead of Illusion Veil.


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Fox Lee

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Re: What's your least favorite part of D&D?
« Reply #62 on: October 13, 2008, 08:51:56 PM »
Gear. UGH, Gear! This one wins over all the other problems I have with D&D, because it's so very inescapable. You can't remove it without mutilating game balance (setting aside whether or not D&D was well-balanced to begin with), and just about anything you do to "fix" it has major ramifications which you then have to fix... and so on. I just plain old hate it.

My latest attempt is to just say "fuck it" and turn treasure/gear into a pool of "advancement point" type things (which just happen to have the same value as treasure) which you can use to improve your character (in ways that just happen to be identical to items). It works, and at least the characters don't look like pack mules, but it's also ugly as hell as a system.

Also, the spells-per day (Vancian?) system. This isn't as big a complaint, because there are alternatives like psionics or Incarnum if you want them, but the rest of my group still likes arcane and divine casters, so I can't do away with the system wholesale. Bah.

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There's only one problem with that - MoI characters down't get less money because of Soulmelds. Don't get me wrong, I like Incarnum - though I don't like the "shaping bits of gear" idea at all - but it doesn't solve treasure and gear problems. A character with Incarnum and no gear would be a character who's deliberately sucking.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: What's your least favorite part of D&D?
« Reply #63 on: October 13, 2008, 09:46:57 PM »
Gear. UGH, Gear! This one wins over all the other problems I have with D&D, because it's so very inescapable. You can't remove it without mutilating game balance (setting aside whether or not D&D was well-balanced to begin with), and just about anything you do to "fix" it has major ramifications which you then have to fix... and so on. I just plain old hate it.

My latest attempt is to just say "fuck it" and turn treasure/gear into a pool of "advancement point" type things (which just happen to have the same value as treasure) which you can use to improve your character (in ways that just happen to be identical to items). It works, and at least the characters don't look like pack mules, but it's also ugly as hell as a system.

Also, the spells-per day (Vancian?) system. This isn't as big a complaint, because there are alternatives like psionics or Incarnum if you want them, but the rest of my group still likes arcane and divine casters, so I can't do away with the system wholesale. Bah.

Magic of Incarnum shows that it is possible to play a campaign while having a nude character.
There's only one problem with that - MoI characters down't get less money because of Soulmelds. Don't get me wrong, I like Incarnum - though I don't like the "shaping bits of gear" idea at all - but it doesn't solve treasure and gear problems. A character with Incarnum and no gear would be a character who's deliberately sucking.

MoI characters don't need as much cash to buy gear though, which is what I'm trying to demonstrate. They save money on gear when compared to mostly any other melee character in the game due to their meldshaping abilities. At several points in the game, it is fully possible to have no cash-bought gear, and still be an effective threat to an encounter (Eisin proved this a lot, the only gear he had on him for 4 levels was a jar of Shapesand and a suit of Breastplate, both of which didn't even matter as enemies would have hit him even when wearing better gear and he never used the shapesand to it's fullest due to a low Wis. It wasn't until the tourney he fouht in that he needed serious cash to buy gear).


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woodenbandman

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Re: What's your least favorite part of D&D?
« Reply #64 on: October 13, 2008, 10:10:01 PM »
Now, Totemists, I like. I just don't like Incarnates because they do their best to replace the items that are part of the game with class abilities. I do love their versatility, but I have to say, I prefer Binders for that.

Totemists, however, are pretty sweet. They can get up to, like, 9 attacks per round (but unfortunately not a lot of power attack.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: What's your least favorite part of D&D?
« Reply #65 on: October 13, 2008, 10:15:25 PM »
Now, Totemists, I like. I just don't like Incarnates because they do their best to replace the items that are part of the game with class abilities. I do love their versatility, but I have to say, I prefer Binders for that.

Totemists, however, are pretty sweet. They can get up to, like, 9 attacks per round (but unfortunately not a lot of power attack.

More than that. Totemist 20 can get 16 ranged attacks, all at 33+Dex modifier, all dealing 1d6+Str+16, with a single Soulmeld.


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Sinfire Titan

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Re: What's your least favorite part of D&D?
« Reply #67 on: October 13, 2008, 10:26:00 PM »
:clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

The icing on the cake comes from having a Fly speed of 170ft, and that you can make all of those attacks with Flyby Attack (which the very soulmeld grants).

Have I ever mentioned that Totemists are fucking nuts?


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AndyJames

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Re: What's your least favorite part of D&D?
« Reply #68 on: October 13, 2008, 10:27:42 PM »
Not you personally, but I have seen that phrase being used.

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: What's your least favorite part of D&D?
« Reply #69 on: October 14, 2008, 01:53:07 PM »
Now, Totemists, I like. I just don't like Incarnates because they do their best to replace the items that are part of the game with class abilities. I do love their versatility, but I have to say, I prefer Binders for that.

Totemists, however, are pretty sweet. They can get up to, like, 9 attacks per round (but unfortunately not a lot of power attack.

More than that. Totemist 20 can get 16 ranged attacks, all at 33+Dex modifier, all dealing 1d6+Str+16, with a single Soulmeld.
You mind explaining to me how, SiFir? I've got a new campaign coming up and have been thinking about going with a Totemist :)
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Sunic_Flames

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Re: What's your least favorite part of D&D?
« Reply #70 on: October 14, 2008, 01:53:34 PM »
The Manticore one.
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There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: What's your least favorite part of D&D?
« Reply #71 on: October 14, 2008, 02:30:07 PM »
So, how do you get your Essentia Capacity up to 16? Or am I missing something here?

Sorry, the only experience I have with Incarnum is a 2-level Totemist dip for a PBP campaign  :blush
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Arcane-surge

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Re: What's your least favorite part of D&D?
« Reply #72 on: October 14, 2008, 03:32:13 PM »
Totemist capstone ability + Expanded Essentia Capacity feat, I think.
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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: What's your least favorite part of D&D?
« Reply #73 on: October 14, 2008, 04:01:22 PM »
Ah, I see. Very nice indeed :)
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: What's your least favorite part of D&D?
« Reply #74 on: October 14, 2008, 10:32:28 PM »
Ah, I see. Very nice indeed :)

Expanded Soulmeld Capacity+Incarnum Focus+Totem Benefits. +second Incarnum Focus if you can justify one for the Totem Chakra, which turns into an extra 2 attacks and an extra +2 to attacks/damage.


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Fox Lee

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Re: What's your least favorite part of D&D?
« Reply #75 on: October 15, 2008, 03:28:11 AM »
There's only one problem with that - MoI characters down't get less money because of Soulmelds. Don't get me wrong, I like Incarnum - though I don't like the "shaping bits of gear" idea at all - but it doesn't solve treasure and gear problems. A character with Incarnum and no gear would be a character who's deliberately sucking.
MoI characters don't need as much cash to buy gear though, which is what I'm trying to demonstrate. They save money on gear when compared to mostly any other melee character in the game due to their meldshaping abilities. At several points in the game, it is fully possible to have no cash-bought gear, and still be an effective threat to an encounter (Eisin proved this a lot, the only gear he had on him for 4 levels was a jar of Shapesand and a suit of Breastplate, both of which didn't even matter as enemies would have hit him even when wearing better gear and he never used the shapesand to it's fullest due to a low Wis. It wasn't until the tourney he fouht in that he needed serious cash to buy gear).
That doesn't solve the problem with gear, though - even if you don't need it, you're still supposed to have X amount of treasure by X level. Whether or not you choose to spend it is irrelevant to the fact that you can spend it, and you + level-appropriate gear is obviously more powerful than you + no gear, regardless of what your class is or does.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: What's your least favorite part of D&D?
« Reply #76 on: October 15, 2008, 03:30:21 PM »
That doesn't solve the problem with gear, though - even if you don't need it, you're still supposed to have X amount of treasure by X level. Whether or not you choose to spend it is irrelevant to the fact that you can spend it, and you + level-appropriate gear is obviously more powerful than you + no gear, regardless of what your class is or does.

That is true. But you gotta admit, the Totemist can still operate without that much gear.


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Fox Lee

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Re: What's your least favorite part of D&D?
« Reply #77 on: October 16, 2008, 03:26:10 AM »
That doesn't solve the problem with gear, though - even if you don't need it, you're still supposed to have X amount of treasure by X level. Whether or not you choose to spend it is irrelevant to the fact that you can spend it, and you + level-appropriate gear is obviously more powerful than you + no gear, regardless of what your class is or does.
That is true. But you gotta admit, the Totemist can still operate without that much gear.
Well, if you're playing a solo game that's all well and good, but otherwise one class being able to succeed without gear just makes the problem more elaborate XP

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Re: What's your least favorite part of D&D?
« Reply #78 on: October 16, 2008, 07:00:21 AM »
Having people eat all of your snackies or drinks... and then not cleaning up after themselves.  :(

Also, sitting for a really long time drives me bonkers. I squirm a lot.

Having someone hog all of the DM's time. Even when the DM is trying to get the rest of the party to do something, that person will be researching something else, and then interrupting the DM to ask him a question about whatever topic he is researching. :rolleyes

Being told that I can't play with my minis at the table. No, they have nothing to do with the campaign, but they are entertaining when my character's getting some down time.  :P



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bihlbo

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Re: What's your least favorite part of D&D?
« Reply #79 on: October 30, 2008, 07:59:22 PM »
Any form of shapechange, from alter self to polymorph; from core to the polymorphed subtype. Not only is this a redunant and convoluted mechanic, but the idea that these forms must be tied to the stats of existing creatures is just beyond pointless.

Fellow players with borderline personality disorder. This isn't really a general complaint, it's just big on my mind.

The inclusion of entirely new schools of gameplay design (like Book of Nine Swords, Magic of Incarnum, psionics, etc) with a system that was never built to include them, and because it includes them, necessitates that they be designed to work within the existing system somehow rather than simply behaving properly in an enclosed system. Players should not have the option of having a core fighter in the same group as a crusader, it's just not the same type of game for the two of them. 3rd party systems handle this in a way that blows WotC's method out of the water.

WotC owning whatever we post on their forums.

Poor software support across the board. We still don't have D&D Insider's promised system to facilitate digitally-based game displays, even though this is something that should have been implemented a decade ago. No company has yet to produce a viable character creation program that can compete with fan-created Excel sheets.

Alignment. The simple fact that we CAN argue about this means that it doesn't work very well. What's more, in a system that is not as shallow and fun-oriented as original D&D, the alignment concept fails to produce the amount of realism that 3.5 encourages. It's like having only different colors of the same car and thinking that's enough variety.
"What kind of car is that?"
"Oh, it's the red kind."

Half orcs. What a stupid idea for a race. If you really need a strong race to fill out your list, why not make one up or just go with orc? Instead we get bastards or children of violent rape popping into the game just so they can get a higher Str or to roleplay the "dumb" guy. I have a "final solution" for the half-breeds of the game. It rhymes with Mall-o-cost.

Arcane Spell Failure. It took them how long to build in a work-around for this limitation? Why not just prohibit casting in armor with which you aren't proficient and call it a day?

Multiclassing. This just does not work the way that it's supposed to, and the system doesn't need it to be an option at all.

Prestige classes. "Hey, let's make a class that has steep requirements so we can justify making it better than core classes."
"Won't people just plan every choice for their character around being the most perfectly qualified character possible for that class so they can get out of what will become a weaker class once you add PrC's?"
"umm.... but I already made 4, can't we keep em?"

Vancian spellcasting (that's spells-per-day for the newbs) in both prepared and spontaneous versions. Add to this: divine casters gaining spells differently than arcane casters (either make it automatic for both or none).

Inconsistancy in spell design. While I love the Spell Compendium, at some point someone should have pointed out that many of the spells are just attempts at making duplicates that fall into a different spell school, in order to allow for better Spell Focus utility for those who recognize that Evocation (among others) focus is pointless. The result: if you want to use a spell, from virtually any source, a good DM must look it over and consider it. The inconsistancy results in a necessitated automatic distrust.

Specific +2/+2 feats with their own entry, just because someone didn't want to say, "Pick two skills and you get a +2 to each."

Leadership feat. If you want to have followers you're required to build a character around this mechanic rather than simply roleplaying it out (also meaning that roleplaying has nothing to do with being a leader). If you want to work the system to get a cohort that allows you to never rely on your party, it's supported in the rules. Both are bad, and both are the result of this feat.

Crafting rules, the redundant Profession skill (which should be NPC-only anyway), an unlimited list of possible Knowledge and Perform skills, skill synergy bonuses, the ease of totally owning all skill checks once you're past a certain level, and the complete negation of the need for skilled characters thanks to certain spells and items.

All races live longer than humans? what the hell?
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