Author Topic: Overpowered Rogue Needed!  (Read 23401 times)

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Caelic

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Re: Overpowered Rogue Needed!
« Reply #120 on: October 06, 2008, 06:18:07 PM »
Oh, merciful Jeebus in a monkey-driven hotrod.

I should really know better than to touch this trainwreck, but there's one particular scab I can't resist picking.


Feelings have nothing to do with learning.



Sorry, Uber, but that's just not true.  At all.  There's a substantial body of data and research on emotional affect and its impact on learning.  If you'd like a starting point, I'd recommend John Ogbu.

I respect your gaming knowledge, but seeing as teaching is my profession, I can't let this one slide.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Overpowered Rogue Needed!
« Reply #121 on: October 06, 2008, 06:20:23 PM »
Oh, merciful Jeebus in a monkey-driven hotrod.
Jesus built my hotrod. It's a love affair, mainly between Jesus and my car.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

carnivore

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Re: Overpowered Rogue Needed!
« Reply #122 on: October 06, 2008, 06:21:55 PM »
back to OP... as for his request:
Quote
First, the conditons of the play:

a- A maze
b- lots of enemies (mostly zombies, demons and golems)
c- lots of traps
d- lots of illusions and misleading
e- You're always alone (so ... no flanking for SA)

The character building procedure:
a- No more than two base classes
b- One prestige class
c- Gotta be rogue-ish tiefling(read as: "have a crime lord past and sneaking abilities")
d- 10th level

Human

Rogue 2/ Warlock 8

4d6 EB

Invocations:
Least:
All Seeing Eyes
See the Unseen
Baleful Utterance

Lesser:
Fell Flight
Walk Unseen


you will have good skills ..... Unlimited firepower .... Flight, Detection, Invisibility,Evasion, Sneak Attack(i would use the Martial Variant that gains Fighter Bonus feats instead)

 :D
« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 06:25:52 PM by carnivore »

Caelic

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Re: Overpowered Rogue Needed!
« Reply #123 on: October 06, 2008, 06:26:48 PM »
Definitely back to the OP and his request.  It'd be good to know which "rogue" elements are non-negotiable.  It's pretty clear that SA is going to be of limited utility unless the whole build's set up around SA. 

So: other than stealth, what MUST be in the build?

dman11235

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Re: Overpowered Rogue Needed!
« Reply #124 on: October 06, 2008, 06:57:42 PM »
Back to the OP, along the same lines as Warlock, Warlock 6/Rogue 4.  See if you can't get into Arcane Trickster to advance warlock invos and sneak attack, otherwise see if Unseen Seer would work (I think this would yield slightly more damage than warlock 13/binder 1/major bloodline 3/Hellfire Warlock 3.  Slightly, but it would be circumstance specific, not that the following trick is exclusive to rogues, you can still do it, but the only advantage is easier hit).  If you can get AT to advance warlock invos, you only need the prereq levels (but 4 rogue to cap the BAB and get Uncanny Dodge).

The two invos you need: Fell Flight and the Darkness one.

Feats: that feat from DotU that lets you spend a use of Darkness (sp) to cast Deeper Darkness and the one that lets you see in magical darkness, and Fly-By Attack.  And Darkstalker (LoM).  Other than that you can customize.  This lets you move/fire/move, and you can hide on the second move, thus allowing for total hiding.  If you don't want to have to fly (or can't effectively) then the swift action hide feat from DotU is adequate.  It's only 1/round because it's a swift action, but you only need 1/round hiding since you fire an EB 1/round.

As for rogues not needing to meet the prereqs.....where does it make the exception?  Every other time you take a feat you need to meet the prereq, unless it specifies that you don't.  See the Monk.  It states that you don't need to meet the prereqs.  Rogue: no such luck.  But it is an open list, and that's pretty sweet alone.  But I don't see anywhere where it makes an exception to allow requirement free feats, nor do I see a rule that states that bonus feats are req free unless stated otherwise.  I feel that it would be an exception, because, well, bonus feats ARE exceptions in and of themselves, normally you only gain feats at certain levels.
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carnivore

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Re: Overpowered Rogue Needed!
« Reply #125 on: October 06, 2008, 10:08:23 PM »
First, the conditons of the play:

a- A maze
b- lots of enemies (mostly zombies, demons and golems)
c- lots of traps
d- lots of illusions and misleading
e- You're always alone (so ... no flanking for SA)

The character building procedure:
a- No more than two base classes
b- One prestige class
c- Gotta be rogue-ish tiefling(read as: "have a crime lord past and sneaking abilities")
d- 10th level
heres a more complete build:

Dragonborn(mind) Human(Chaotic Good)
Rogue(feat Variant) 2/ Warlock 8

Attributes:(+2 Con, -2 Dex)
32pt buy

10 Str(10)
18 Dex(14-2 racial+2 lvls +4 Item)
16 Con(14 +2 Racial)
16 Int(16)
14 Wis(14)
10 Cha(10)

Feats:Flaws:
Noncombatant : -2 penalty on all melee attack rolls.
Slow: Your base land speed is halved (round down to the nearest 5-foot interval).

Skills:108 skill points:

100 skill points spent on:
6 ranks Disable Device
8 ranks Open Lock
8 ranks Escape Artist
8 ranks Knowledge(Arcana)
8 ranks Knowledge(Dungeoneering)
8 ranks Knowledge(Local)
8 ranks Knowledge(Nature)
8 ranks Knowledge(Religion)
8 ranks Knowledge(The planes)
10 ranks Spot
10 ranks Search
10 ranks UMD


8 skill points spent on Skill Tricks:
Collector of Stories
Clever Improviser
Opening Tap
Easy Escape

Items:
16000gp +4 Gloves of Dex
2500gp Eyes of the Eagle ... +5 competence to Spot
3500gp Lens of Detection ... +5 unnamed to Search
5200gp Vest of Escape ...... +4 competence Open Lock and +6 competence Escape Artist
8150gp Millinneial Chainmail(Relic)... gives constant Fast healing 3




BAB +7
Base Saves:F +2, R +5, W +6


4d6 EB ...ranged Touch attack at will

Invocations:
Least:
All Seeing Eyes ........ +6 Spot and Search, and continuous Comprehend Languages
See the Unseen ....... constant See Invisible
Baleful Utterance ..... Unlimited uses of Shatter

Lesser:
Fell Flight .............. constant Flight
Walk Unseen .......... constant Invisiblity(as per spell)

Class Abilities:Mind :

Immune to Paralysis,Magic Sleep Effects
Darkvision 30'
low Light vision
+2 Racial to Spot, Search, listen
@6HD..Darkvision 60'
@9HD .. Darkvision 90' and 3x lowlight vision[/spoiler]

Quote
Hmm...so what i really need is:
A) How can i maximize my chances of survival?
B) Focus on battle or in a utility build?

this will Maximize your survival..... because:

1)you will always be Invisible and Flying
2)you will have Fast Healing 3 constant
3)you will have Good attack abilities
4)you will be very skilled
5)you will have Awesome detection Abilities: Darkvision 90' and 3x lowlight vision, +2 Racial to Spot, Search, listen, Invocations: +6 Spot and Search, and continuous Comprehend Languages, and constant See Invisible, +5 competence to Spot and +5 unnamed to Search from Equipment




 :D
« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 10:12:26 PM by carnivore »

Maximiano

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Re: Overpowered Rogue Needed!
« Reply #126 on: October 09, 2008, 12:06:40 AM »
Woa!

That is a cool build!  :clap

A shame i have to go tiefling!

So...
I'm changing my mind and going toward the hide/shoot/hide route.
I just need HIPS.

Probably shooting with eldritch blasts is better than with a arrow.
Most of your builds here are using that instead of bow + SA, so i'll admit it as true.

The thing is: How can i hide while shooting and moving around?
The Walk unseen is a standard action. Any other alternative?
If it is a swift action it's even better. Non-limited of course.
Good gaming for you.

dman11235

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Re: Overpowered Rogue Needed!
« Reply #127 on: October 09, 2008, 12:27:41 AM »
As I said: take the DotU feats for darkness spell like abilities.  one of them is "hide as a swift action", another is "see through magical darkness", another is "cast Deeper Darkness".  They will let you hide.  Heck, the swift action one lets you ignore HiPS.  but if you want it: Dark creature and Shadow Creature (ToM and LoM respectively) will help you there.  Also, if you don't want the swift action hide thing, Fly By Attack will let you do it.  Move/shoot/move, and hiding is part of movement (not move action, movement).  It's better with an archer thanks to Manyshot, but EB works well here too.  Just make sure they can't see through magical darkness, and you're golden, because you can.
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Maximiano

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Re: Overpowered Rogue Needed!
« Reply #128 on: October 09, 2008, 01:11:06 PM »
Cool then
gotta find that book now.

I assume it's Drow of the Underdark

Gotta check it
Good gaming for you.

SorO_Lost

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Re: Overpowered Rogue Needed!
« Reply #129 on: October 09, 2008, 05:45:42 PM »
You need to check with your DM on blend with shadows since it says "You must be within to feet of an area of magical darkness". ;)

Hits at WotC aside it really sucks your facing golems & undead. DotU has the fear feat that lets you auto win against anything not immune to fear.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Sunic_Flames

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Re: Overpowered Rogue Needed!
« Reply #130 on: October 09, 2008, 06:37:54 PM »
Imperious Command. You also need Fearsome, otherwise you can't do anything else.
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IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

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[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

carnivore

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Re: Overpowered Rogue Needed!
« Reply #131 on: October 09, 2008, 06:40:17 PM »
ok if using Tiefling... try this:

Tiefling..... assuming you are using LA Buy off for LA
[spoiler]Tiefling Racial abilitiesDarkvision out to 60 feet.
Racial Skills: Tieflings have a +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Hide checks.
Racial Feats: A tiefling gains feats according to its class levels.
Special Attacks (see above): Darkness.
Special Qualities (see above): Resistance to cold 5, electricity 5, and fire 5.
Automatic Languages: Common, Infernal. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc.
Favored Class: Rogue.
Level adjustment +1.
.........................................................
[/spoiler]

Rogue(feat Variant) 2/ Warlock 822 Dex(14+2 racial+2 lvls +4 Item)
14 Con(14)
18 Int(16+ 2 racial)
14 Wis(14)
8 ChaFlyby Attack

Flaws:
Noncombatant : -2 penalty on all melee attack rolls.
Slow: Your base land speed is halved (round down to the nearest 5-foot interval).

Skills:108 skill points:

100 skill points spent on:
6 ranks Disable Device
5 ranks Listen
8 ranks Open Lock
8 ranks Escape Artist
8 ranks Knowledge(Arcana)
8 ranks Knowledge(Dungeoneering)
8 ranks Knowledge(Local)
8 ranks Knowledge(Nature)
8 ranks Knowledge(Religion)
8 ranks Knowledge(The planes)
10 ranks Spot
10 ranks Search
5 ranks UMD


8 skill points spent on Skill Tricks:
Collector of Stories
Clever Improviser
Opening Tap
Easy Escape

Items:
16000gp +4 Gloves of Dex
2500gp Eyes of the Eagle ... +5 competence to Spot
3500gp Lens of Detection ... +5 unnamed to Search
5200gp Vest of Escape ...... +4 competence Open Lock and +6 competence Escape Artist
8150gp Millinneial Chainmail(Relic)... gives constant Fast healing 3




BAB +7
Base Saves:F +2, R +5, W +6


4d6 EB ...ranged Touch attack at will

Invocations:
Least:
All Seeing Eyes ........ +6 Spot and Search, and continuous Comprehend Languages
See the Unseen ....... constant See Invisible
Baleful Utterance ..... Unlimited uses of Shatter

Lesser:
Fell Flight .............. constant Flight
Walk Unseen .......... constant Invisiblity(as per spell)

Invisibility works great vs Undead or Constructs
« Last Edit: October 09, 2008, 06:41:59 PM by carnivore »

SorO_Lost

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Re: Overpowered Rogue Needed!
« Reply #132 on: October 09, 2008, 08:10:03 PM »
Don't EB check SR making the golems immune to it? Better pack a decent weapon in case, like a +1 Warning(MiC) Shortbow or something. I also suggest Shadowy Diadem (dragon magic, 4,400gp) since it grants full immunity to negative energy for ten rounds as a swift action 3/day. Useful vs those pesky wights you may be fighting. Adding both items won't tip you over WBL I think.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Ubernoob

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Re: Overpowered Rogue Needed!
« Reply #133 on: October 09, 2008, 08:17:39 PM »
Don't EB check SR making the golems immune to it? Better pack a decent weapon in case, like a +1 Warning(MiC) Shortbow or something. I also suggest Shadowy Diadem (dragon magic, 4,400gp) since it grants full immunity to negative energy for ten rounds as a swift action 3/day. Useful vs those pesky wights you may be fighting. Adding both items won't tip you over WBL I think.
Yep.  That's what you need the acid invocation at level 11 for.
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carnivore

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Re: Overpowered Rogue Needed!
« Reply #134 on: October 10, 2008, 07:03:17 PM »
Don't EB check SR making the golems immune to it? Better pack a decent weapon in case, like a +1 Warning(MiC) Shortbow or something. I also suggest Shadowy Diadem (dragon magic, 4,400gp) since it grants full immunity to negative energy for ten rounds as a swift action 3/day. Useful vs those pesky wights you may be fighting. Adding both items won't tip you over WBL I think.
great idea.... you could also use this:

2,500 gp Golembane Scarab: This beetle-shaped pin enables its wearer to detect any golem within 60 feet, although he must concentrate (a standard action) in order for the detection to take place. A scarab enables its possessor to combat golems with weapons, unarmed attacks, or natural weapons as if those golems had no damage reduction.


Don't EB check SR making the golems immune to it? Better pack a decent weapon in case, like a +1 Warning(MiC) Shortbow or something. I also suggest Shadowy Diadem (dragon magic, 4,400gp) since it grants full immunity to negative energy for ten rounds as a swift action 3/day. Useful vs those pesky wights you may be fighting. Adding both items won't tip you over WBL I think.
Yep.  That's what you need the acid invocation at level 11 for.

good call ubernoob .... definately get Vitriolic Blast when you can get it.... but it is a Greater Invocation.... he must be Warlock 11... thus will get it at 13th lvl

 :D

Achiever_Type

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Re: Overpowered Rogue Needed!
« Reply #135 on: October 16, 2008, 08:21:54 AM »
/insert plug for Factotum

Although you've got a couple things working against you for making a potent factotum build, its at least worth consideration.
You've already reached the possible split point at Factotum 8 (3 inspiration points for an extra standard action).  Give it a bow, give it rapid and multi shot, and watch it kill.  Problem I see in this rather tight set of rules is that factotum is best paired with Humans, and even better humans with flaws.  Archery is a bit feat heavy and you want, no need, font of inspiration. 

/end plug for Factotum

Carnivore's suggestion of rogue/warlock is a good one given the confines of the build.  In fact, anything that gets you the hell out of rogue pretty fast is good. 

Alternatively, if you go  rogue 1/wizard 4/unseen seer(or arcane trickster) that might give you some omph with spontaneous divination.  But blargh, again.  No ability to hit up arcane trickster+unseen seer in a stacking combo kicks this one in the groin.

Bah, just go warlock.

Azure85

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Re: Overpowered Rogue Needed!
« Reply #136 on: November 07, 2008, 01:09:45 AM »
this is the build me and a friend came up with. i'd love to hear some responses:
Master Thrower Build
Sanjitte (human)
1. Rogue 1
2. Rogue 2
3. Rogue 3
4. Rogue 4
5. Rogue 5
6. Rogue 5/ Invisible Blade 1
7. Rogue 5/ Invisible Blade 2
8. Rogue 5/ Invisible Blade 3
9. Rogue 5/ Invisible Blade 4
10. Rogue 5/ Invisible Blade 5
11. Rogue 5/ Invisible Blade 5/ Master Thrower 1
12. Rogue 5/ Invisible Blade 5/ Master Thrower 2
13. Rogue 5/ Invisible Blade 5/ Master Thrower 3
14. Rogue 5/ Invisible Blade 5/ Master Thrower 4
15. Rogue 5/ Invisible Blade 5/ Master Thrower 5
16. Rogue 6/ Invisible Blade 5/ Master Thrower 5
17. Rogue 7/ Invisible Blade 5/ Master Thrower 5
18. Rogue 8/ Invisible Blade 5/ Master Thrower 5
19. Rogue 9/ Invisible Blade 5/ Master Thrower 5
20. Rogue 10/ Invisible Blade 5/ Master Thrower 5

FeatsFlaws
Non-combatant
Murky-eyed(note: only if you are not human or a race with a bonus feat at 1st)

Skill Trick
Group fake out
Timely misdirection
EquipmentAC
Normal: 60(10 + 13(Dex) + 5(Int) + 5(RoP) + 5(AoNA) + 10(Enh) + 8(BoA) + 4(Dodge))
Touch: 47(10 + 13(Dex) + 5(Int) + 5(RoP) + 10(Enh) + 4(Dodge))
Flat-Footed: 38(10 + 5(RoP) + 5(AoNA) + 10(Enh) + 8(BoA))

Damage*
BAB: +16/ +16/ +11/ +11/ +6/ +6/ +1/ +16
single attack: 1d4+1(Wep)+5d6(RSneak)+3d6(IBSneak)
-now double this for the palmed dagger
-them multiply by 7(or 8 with speed) for total damage potential per full attack
Basicly with the IB swift feint ability you remove the target(s) dex opening up for sneak attack, with the MT weak spot trick you treat your attack as a touch attack leaving only deflection and base 10 AC, so unless you roll really bad you will hit. with Palm throw you are able to throw two daggers at once each attack(yes you lose str damage but sneak attack makes up for that.) effectively giving you 14(+2) attacks on a full attack action(with speed). Add in the deadeye shot and critical throw from MT and that's all those attacks with crit chances of 17-20 x3(you are bound to crit)
note: if you see any mistakes please mention them, we made this build at 2am.