Oh, separate thought entirely: this has been about 4 1/2 pages of discussion of just the monk. I suspect that we're going to need a separate thread for all the classes. Unless someone has a brand spanking new monk build hidden up their sleeve that addresses a good number of concerns raised in the thread... then this is going to take a while and take up a lot of space.
Just sayin'.
So ... I went and started cotemplating the monk. I first went to the SRD. To get a feel for what the monk is "Currently" doing.
it... it was bad.
I then thought "Well people have to have made monk fixes cause its so bad. So I traveled then to the P.E.A.C.H. Garden. . . and i was sad
The monk builds there had little variancy (ie. it still sucked) or too much variance (i.e. better to just use the damn Sword sage. Then finally I checked my subscrribed thread and saw Mister sinister had responded to the "What have we learned, thread"
Which posted a link to Szatany's work... which I rember working on when he was on the boards *sad that he's gone*
For rebalancing I think we should take a good look at Szatany's Monk.
For me it fits the standard of what I described earlier in the thread. Monks are people who internalize the magic in the universe until they become magic themselves. In Szatany's case he proposes this Idea as Ascendancy and Enlighetenment and there are many paths.
Now I'm not suggesting we whole sale lift it, like (owa's paladine
) but I do think thats the correct concept, on the right track and would be a desired inspiration/starting point.
[urkl=http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/Ultimate_Monk#Way_of_Shadows]Ultimate Monk by Szatany & Co[/url]
Let us discuss.
I'll start by saying that when I was looking at the monks capstone ability I decided that 20th level transformational abilities aren't bad, I'd suggested it earlier in the original thread for the blackguard (and I'm working on that one currently still) What I did think was that the "Perfect self" should be Damage reduction 10/magic and something esle or damage reduction 10/-
Primarily because well I looked and all the outsiders actually get that and the Dread necro does and so on. Further, the fact that at level 20 everyone already has magic weapons make it a moot point.
The second thing that occurs to me, and honestly it maybe that I just looked at the monk, is that I find the path system a bit complicated.
This leads me to think that we should come up with ONE path to enlightenment, or that is to say we should select on set of consistent abilites that end at twentieth leve you become an Outsider.
For comparative classes... I look ad the dread necro, (which intersperses the abilities thoughout the class) and the binder Prc, "Knight of the Sacred Seal" which grants "Apothesis" which is the perfect self class feature as early as 10th level.
Also the binder it self is an excellent class to review for comparasion sake as it actually produces several monk like builds (but better) which are illustrated in the Consolidated Binder handbook.
For example binders gain list of flat bonuses to somethings that are changeable each day as well as a host of immunities that scale and that matter.... Immunity to Fear/Slipperymind/immunity to level drain/negative energy levels/and cluminating in "Mind Blank" at level 19. It bears mentioning that the binder is also on the tier 3 list which is about the power range we shuold be shooting for.
So I dont' know where that leads us too, exactly but here's my take on the new monk design.
Fluffwise- The monk may well be the old sholin monks, or something else...However ultimately how that translates in D&D us that this is a person who is seeking a universal constant in an attempt to Transcend thier mortality... Gaining in power gradually until they are actually something more that human. The final stages would be transcendance or enlightenment.
Mechanically, the character will be a skirmisher/disabler who gains the a suite of abilities/and immunities that suit him to the Job.
The ways in which he does this is by being an "action stealer" since D&D works on economy of action. Will give another effect similar to stunning fist, which requires a reflex save and does something requires a "REFLEX" save or render something "immobilized" rooted in place for one round.
Also we add a few other things like a miss chance instead of an ac bonus at various levels and a scaling damage reduction at levels 4,8,12,16, culminating at 20. So you get better as you progess.
There's more but I'll leave it at that for now. . . I just want to bounce it off you.
Please discuss.