Author Topic: Helpin a friend out  (Read 1960 times)

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RabidPirateMan

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Helpin a friend out
« on: September 02, 2008, 02:13:48 PM »
Hey, look, its that weird guy from the WotC boards!  Joined recently, decided to check it out.

So, here's the set up- I'm in a Planescape campaign being redone with 3.5 mechanics.  One guy there wants to play a specific type of Character, but since everyone is horribly unoptimized, we spend more time running away than roleplaying.

This guy wants to be a Doomguard, and was planning to be a Blackguard.  However, he doesn't seem to find it fitting that his Scion of Evilness is getting his ass handed to him on a regular basis.

He asked me to help, and I asked him what he wanted.  Here's what he said-

1.  Wants to wear Fullplate
2.  Wants to be a badboy
3.  Wants to wield a kickass sword.
4.  Wants to use a Towershield
5.  Wants to be a Tank with a lot of hitpoints.
6.  Wants to be able to 'smite.'
7.  Wants to be able to help the party.

So there's stuff wrong with it already:  Full plate sucks, SAB isn't the best, but otherwise pretty clear cut- knight of darkness.

Originally he had a Fighter 8/Barbarian 2, but he's been allowed retraining to make him something better.

Here's what I've cooked up for him:
Paladin of Tyranny 3/Hexblade 4/Ravager 10/Exotic Weapon Master 1/Ronin 2
Put everything into Cha, then Str and Con.

Yeah, not the best, but alright- Dreadful Wrath in and scare people, lay down the penalties to saves, then use his weapon with some stunning enchantment to wreak havoc.  The wizard will love him.  Higher levels (if he ever gets there) he gets more damage out of EWM and Ronin.

So, any other ways I can make him better?  Ravager is subpar, but gives him everything he wants... thoughts?

Parameters are 3.5, setting sources are to be kept at a minimum (Forgotten Realms more kosher than Eberron, good luck doing anything with Dragonlance), and this guy doesn't have ToB, so Initiator levels are a no go.  He might allow himself to take Martial Study and Stance if its kept simple, but otherwise consider it out (sadly).

ZeroSpace

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Re: Helpin a friend out
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2008, 02:51:23 PM »
Well, first things first; Don't optimize Mr. Doomguard too much w/o offering the other players the same oppurtunity, or they WILL call shenanigans.

Build appears to be alright, if you have PHB2 I might use the sub feature for Hexblades, namely the Dark Companion. I'm AFB right now, but it provides another -2 to saves within a radius, but it can't attack like a familiar can. Exotic Weapon Master and Ronin fit in pretty well, but I don't believe that Ravager is an alright class, especially given that I think you must be Neutral/Chaotic Evil to qualify, which throws you out of Paladin of Tyranny.

Just out of curiousity, would you mind posting his current build?
YAY! I get to go to the SPECIAL hell!

"The picks aren't breaking through, sir!"
"Alright men, time to break out the greatswords!"

"You may not make money being a bad-ass!"
-My DM

Akalsaris

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Re: Helpin a friend out
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2008, 03:43:46 PM »
I love that the guy has a good idea of what he wants to play...I'm the opposite, I usually look for an interesting class/PrC and develop the character backwards from there =)

Anyhow, it's not optimized, but the Vengeance Knight is a PrC from Champions of Ruin that's got a d10/+1BAB and focuses on being evil, using full plate, sword+board, has a weak version of favored enemy against foes of his organization and quasi-smites people who hit him in melee (it's like furious resolve, but worse!)   Paladin of Tyranny 5 would work as a decent (though nothing special) lead-in.

Just re-flavor the organization to the Doomguards (and probably change the alignment requirements to allow CE), and you've got a ready-made PrC. 

Along the same lines, a straight fighter with the 3/6/9 zhentarim fighter sublevels (reflavored for Doomguards) would keep things simple and let him tank and intimidate stuff a lot with Dreadful Wrath and whatnot.  Plus he can keep his stats and feats almost identical if he's attached to the current character's design. 

RabidPirateMan

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Re: Helpin a friend out
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2008, 07:46:44 PM »
His current build, if I remember, is Fighter 8/Barbarian 3 or 4.  I know he has Weapon Focus, Spec and Greater (which is already a bad start), Power attack and cleave, Improved Sunder and I think Improved Initiative.  Not good, not good.  DM is being kind and allowing people to retrain entirely, so long as they keep their flavor intact (for instance, a rogue 9/fighter 2 retrained to rogue 4/swashbuckler 7, but wasn't allowed to do rogue 1/wizard4/unseen seer 6).  Evil-y swordsmash guy with big armor is fine.

I might not be able to wrangle in a PrC from Forgotten Realms... it was hard enough to get the feat.  But I'll try.  DM was OK with removing the NE or CE on Ravager because he thinks it could certainly be applicable to Doomguards.

Also, I tried to help everyone else- but not everyone wanted to change.  I'm one of the only minmaxers there.  One guy is playing a Modron wizard (from Dragon Mag... I forget the stats... is it +4 Con +4 Int?), which is a LA of 2.  I told him about buyout, but he said he didn't want to lower his character's level...  I explained he'd stay the same level, just lower ECL, but he didn't budge.  This group needs help :)

ZeroSpace

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Re: Helpin a friend out
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2008, 08:02:17 PM »
That helps. First thing I might do is take LE Pal to lvl 4, so that you can get Turn Undead and all the spicy feats that go with it. One nice example is Divine Might, which adds your Cha bonus to melee damage rolls for some amount of time relative to your Cha bonus.

I'm guessing that you're focusing more on the melee component of the build, and less on the spellcasting, am I right? It's kinda in line with the old build, so it might be best to leave that out. If you want some simple manuevers from ToB to use, I suggest Crusader's Strike and Revitalising Strike. They're both standard action melee hits that also heal some damage to either self or a nearby ally, and they heal 1d6/3d6 + ML, respectively. The first you can take at lvl 3, but the second would have to wait until 12th lvl.

I can't think of any reasonable subs for Ravager right now, so the best that I can suggest is PalTyr4/Hexblade4/EWM1/Ronin2. That looks to be a reasonable build for what he wants.
YAY! I get to go to the SPECIAL hell!

"The picks aren't breaking through, sir!"
"Alright men, time to break out the greatswords!"

"You may not make money being a bad-ass!"
-My DM

Blade2718

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Re: Helpin a friend out
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2008, 10:48:47 PM »
See if you can get Zhentarim Fighter substitution levels for more Intimidating evilness.  I'm fairly certain it's in Champions of Ruin.  Just get it renamed to Doomguard Fighter or something.

Brainpiercing

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Re: Helpin a friend out
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2008, 09:48:27 AM »
I have a suggestion, but no complete build idea:

If he has decent Cha:
Pally of Tyranny3/Fighter2/Warrior of Darkness X (From FCII, it gets permanent improvements from a list, including inherent bonuses, or bonus feats, or something akin to Pounce. I like it, in a way, it's not bad.) Might throw in some Hexblade or Binder for debuffing, or even a dip of Marshal to get the first minor Aura. Of course Warblade is never bad, too, although it will be a significant change in flavour to suddenly do maneuvers.