Author Topic: Breaking the Rules (of Optimisation)  (Read 7053 times)

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Rebel7284

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Re: Breaking the Rules (of Optimisation)
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2008, 01:59:32 PM »
Losing caster levels rule is frequently broken (thus the caveat in the rule...)
Example: Wizard 4/Mind Bender 1/Ur Priest 1/Mystic Theurge 9/x5 where X=archmage/shadowcraft mage/incanatatrix/etc
You give up 1 level of wizard casting for full Ur Priest casting.
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Ubernoob

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Re: Breaking the Rules (of Optimisation)
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2008, 08:10:43 PM »
Losing caster levels rule is frequently broken (thus the caveat in the rule...)
Example: Wizard 4/Mind Bender 1/Ur Priest 1/Mystic Theurge 9/x5 where X=archmage/shadowcraft mage/incanatatrix/etc
You give up 1 level of wizard casting for full Ur Priest casting.
That build is illegal.
Wiz 5/ MB 1/ Ur Priest 1/ MT 9/ X 4 is though.
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Akalsaris

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Re: Breaking the Rules (of Optimisation)
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2008, 08:10:01 AM »
3.  on a Fatespinner in a debuffing+SoD build.  Maybe.

Unseelie Fey's Winter Chill ability is a nice de-buff (but puts you into close range and is Cha-based; and requires the use of the Unseelie Fey template, which many DMs will understandably reject or groan about) and there are plenty of spells to de-buff that everyone knows about. Fatespinners abilities just can't be used enough times per day to really warrant taking levels in it over another prestige class. That said, it isn't "awful" or anything so I could see it used, as you said, "maybe," but I agree that it's doubtful

By the way, where is Unseelie Fey from?  I've seen it used in builds before (the debuffing one that used intimidation and elder evil feats, iirc).

Nox_Noctis

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Re: Breaking the Rules (of Optimisation)
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2008, 08:27:47 AM »
Unseelie Fey is from the Dragon Compendium (Dragon Magazine). It's fairly imbalanced.  :-\
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Callix

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Re: Breaking the Rules (of Optimisation)
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2008, 08:52:13 AM »
For all those critics with Tier 1 builds: It's a Fortitude save, not a Will save. Not that this helps much. Yes, Artificer, Cleric and the others will win. But this is a build that is different, while remaining competitive with challenges well above its CR.

On amending the Commandment: The beauty is that I don't even have a multiplied effect. It's just that you can't hit with both an axe and a hammer with one weapon (short of extreme Aptitude cheese), and the save is abusable enough that it's worth it.
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Omen of Peace

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Re: Breaking the Rules (of Optimisation)
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2008, 12:25:51 PM »
Regarding lost spellcasting levels: War Weaver and Recaster are strong contenders too. Also Dweomerkeeper if the qualification via FR feat is not acceptable.

I have pieces of a Binder assassin (not the class) build lying around, maybe I should finish it.

@Callix: the build is decent but Lolth-touched is not going to be available in that many games (in my experience - maybe yours is different).
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Caelic

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Re: Breaking the Rules (of Optimisation)
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2008, 01:13:31 PM »
The thing about the Ten Commandments is that they were never meant to be taken totally literally or totally seriously; they were firmly tongue-in-cheek.  Naturally there are exceptions; most of my better-known builds violate the Ten Commandments.

The Ten Commandments of Practical Optimization were meant much more seriously.

Ubernoob

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Re: Breaking the Rules (of Optimisation)
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2008, 01:16:36 PM »
For all those critics with Tier 1 builds: It's a Fortitude save, not a Will save. Not that this helps much. Yes, Artificer, Cleric and the others will win. But this is a build that is different, while remaining competitive with challenges well above its CR.

On amending the Commandment: The beauty is that I don't even have a multiplied effect. It's just that you can't hit with both an axe and a hammer with one weapon (short of extreme Aptitude cheese), and the save is abusable enough that it's worth it.
Hey, I said it was nice.  The tiers are accurate for a reason.  A tier 3 simply isn't going to be in a party with a tier 0 (which is what said cleric was).  Really, nice buildcraft.
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Tshern

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Re: Breaking the Rules (of Optimisation)
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2008, 04:25:12 PM »
Hey, I said it was nice.  The tiers are accurate for a reason.  A tier 3 simply isn't going to be in a party with a tier 0 (which is what said cleric was).  Really, nice buildcraft.
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Ubernoob

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Re: Breaking the Rules (of Optimisation)
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2008, 04:55:55 PM »
Hey, I said it was nice.  The tiers are accurate for a reason.  A tier 3 simply isn't going to be in a party with a tier 0 (which is what said cleric was).  Really, nice buildcraft.
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Midnight_v

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Re: Breaking the Rules (of Optimisation)
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2008, 06:44:57 PM »
Hey, I said it was nice.  The tiers are accurate for a reason.  A tier 3 simply isn't going to be in a party with a tier 0 (which is what said cleric was).  Really, nice buildcraft.
"What if you are in an antimagic field?"
"I'm a cleric, bitch."

Level 12 with the magic domain and initiate of mystra.  Yeah, I went there.
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