Author Topic: Best lycanthropes?  (Read 9869 times)

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AndyJames

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Re: Best lycanthropes?
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2008, 06:07:24 PM »
Raging as in lycanthropic "I've lost my mind and won't remember this bite".

Surreal

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Re: Best lycanthropes?
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2008, 06:10:18 PM »
A small were-dire weasel... attach at waist level, blood drain, Con damage... makes me cringe every time.
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AndyJames

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Re: Best lycanthropes?
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2008, 06:14:52 PM »
Reminds me of the tiny undead that my group fought once. It was some creature that got turned into a ghast but retained its Tiny size. It hit the Ogre fighter and crit, and the Ogre failed his Fort save. DM rolled location and it was the crotch. Play stopped for 10 mins.

EjoThims

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Re: Best lycanthropes?
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2008, 07:33:37 PM »
AC has already passed this on, but I thought I'd toss it all out there, since it also has some other severe affects on what we used to consider the 'standard' for Lycanthropes.

Quote from: me from way back when
Btw... this no longer works.

The errata change on it actually dates to 2/17/06, though I didn't notice until the recent article.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060502a

"A creature cannot use alternate form to take the form of a creature with a template."

Additionally:

"The creature loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian's rage class feature)."

Bye bye Feral Lycanthropes...

And:

"Apply any changed physical ability score modifiers in all appropriate areas with one exception: the creature retains the hit points of its original form despite any change to its Constitution."

And Prime, you cannot apply the animal templates to the lycanthrope, as the lycanthrope is not an animal, it is a humanoid or giant.

There is currently no way to gain templated animal forms for lycanthropy.

There are a few neat tricks with Lycanthropy though, like using Changelings to, at low levels and with no ECL change, take the form of non-templated super Lycanthropes, like Battletitans (MM3 Dinosaur, 42 Str, 20 NA, 60 speed, Imp Grab, Swallow Whole, Huge size).

There are also some amazing 1 HD creatures, like the Carcass Eater (LM Animal, 17 Dex, 17 Con, 1 NA, Blood Frenzy [When damaging a living creature, gain +4 Str, +4 Con, -2 AC, auto bite for 1d4 when target goes to negative hp, can't be ended voluntarily but has no rage/frenzy restrictions], Small size).

AndyJames

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Re: Best lycanthropes?
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2008, 07:40:56 PM »
Isn't Lycanthrope itself a template, which means you can't turn into one as a Changeling?

EjoThims

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Re: Best lycanthropes?
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2008, 09:10:46 PM »
Isn't Lycanthrope itself a template, which means you can't turn into one as a Changeling?

Changelings; Minor Shape Change keys off disguise self, not alter self or alternate form, which afaik, did not receive the same errata.

Racial Emulation allows a Changeling to, when assuming the form of a humanoid creauter (which lycanthropes are), emulate any of that humanoid's subtypes and count as that race for other purposes.

Assume Supernatural Ability allows you to gain use a single supernatural ability of any kind of creature that you take the form of with a polymorph self or similar spell, which supposedly Racial Emulation meets, since you count as being that race by using a spell.

You use Minor Shape Change to take the form of a Werebattletitan in humanoid form, and because of Racial Emulation you count as a Werebattletitan. You then choose their Alternate Form ability as the single supernatural ability you gain from Assume Supernatural ability.

So, supposedly, as a level 1 Changeling with 1 flaw, you can take the form of a 36 HD Battletitan or it's hybrid form.

AndyJames

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Re: Best lycanthropes?
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2008, 09:17:25 PM »

AfterCrescent

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Re: Best lycanthropes?
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2008, 10:57:08 PM »
This is why we point Ejo to Theoretical Op. ;)
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Nox_Noctis

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Re: Best lycanthropes?
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2008, 01:04:18 PM »
I am still trying to get past the whole "LG Werebear in raging bear form letting the bad guy alone after just one sample nibble" bit...

The thing is that the werebear isn't raging........ unless he's a half orc werebear who took levels in half orc paragon.

Yeah, because no one has ever heard of the Barbarian class.  :rolleyes
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EjoThims

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Re: Best lycanthropes?
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2008, 01:15:38 PM »
I like the werebear if only because you can bite evil doers to potentially make them lawful good.

Only if they ever intentionally change.

Which is still retarded and the first thing I ever houseruled (intentionally) in any game.

That said... My favorite Lycanthrope trick is still taking 5 levels in Warshaper and then taking the Quick Change feat... So that your Lycanthrope shifts only take a free action. :D

This combination also allows you to apply your Warshaper's Morphic Weapons to all of your Natural Attacks (Lycanthrope or not) even if you and/or your DM limit Morphic Weapons to one enhanced/grown weapon at a time, since Quick Change also makes Morphic Weapons (the use of which, after all, changes your form) a free action.

Cyrocloud

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Re: Best lycanthropes?
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2008, 11:57:18 PM »
Werefleshraker...nuff said.

EjoThims

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Re: Best lycanthropes?
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2008, 07:26:15 AM »
Werefleshraker...nuff said.

While it's got a nice ability for grapplers, it's 5 ECL minimum, and the stat boosts are pretty meh compared to the cost.

Prime32

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Re: Best lycanthropes?
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2008, 04:21:37 PM »
I am still trying to get past the whole "LG Werebear in raging bear form letting the bad guy alone after just one sample nibble" bit...

The thing is that the werebear isn't raging........ unless he's a half orc werebear who took levels in half orc paragon.

Yeah, because no one has ever heard of the Barbarian class.  :rolleyes
Lawful characters can't use barbarian rage. Being a wearbear turns you lawful.  :rolleyes
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Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
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EjoThims

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Re: Best lycanthropes?
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2008, 05:30:02 PM »
Lawful characters can't use barbarian rage. Being a wearbear turns you lawful.  :rolleyes

Only if you intentionally change (or fail the save, but except on a 1 or near to it, that shouldn't happen at werebear appropriate levels).

Prime32

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Re: Best lycanthropes?
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2008, 05:45:00 PM »
What's the point in being a lycanthrope if you can't change when you want to, or use the form with animal powers and opposable thumbs?
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

EjoThims

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Re: Best lycanthropes?
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2008, 05:55:00 PM »
What's the point in being a lycanthrope?

My sentiments exactly after the nerfs they gave it...

 :)