Author Topic: Help Needed with Trip Build  (Read 4873 times)

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carnivore

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Re: Help Needed with Trip Build
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2008, 08:42:11 AM »
here is an alternate build you might like:


Human
Rogue(feat variant) 2/ Monk(overwhelming attack variant) 2/ Ranger 2/ Fighter 2/ Ranger 2/ Crusader 2

Attributes(32pt buy)
22 Str(16 +2 lvls +4 belt)
16 Dex(14 +2 gloves)
16 Con(16)
14 Int(14)
10 Wis(10)
8 Cha(8 )


Flaws:

Flaws:
Vulnerable
Effect: You take a -1 penalty to Armor Class.
 
Murky-Eyed
Effect: In combat, every time you attack an opponent that has concealment, roll your miss chance twice. If either or both results indicate that you miss, your attack fails.

Traits:
Musclebound
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on Strength-based skill checks and ability checks.
Drawback: You take a -2 penalty on Dexterity-based skill checks and ability checks.

Absent Minded
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on Knowledge checks (although this does not let you use a Knowledge skill untrained).
Drawback: You take a -1 penalty on Spot checks and Listen checks.


feats and progression:

Rogue 1 ...................... Dodge(rogue bonus), Combat Reflexes(Human bonus), Combat Expertise(Flaw), Imp Trip(Flaw), Karmic Strike
Monk 1 ....................... Power Attack(monk bonus)
Monk 2 ....................... Imp Bull Rush(monk bonus), Knowledge Devotion
Ranger 1 ..................... Track(ranger bonus)
Ranger 2 ..................... TWF(ranger bonus)
Rogue 2 ...................... Knockdown, Pushback(rogue bonus)
Crusader 1
Fighter 1 ..................... Shock Trooper (fighter bonus)
Fighter 2 ..................... Leap Attack, Reckless Charge(fighter bonus)
Crusader 2


items:
+1 Mithral Full Plate(+8 Armor , max Dex +3)
+1 Vampiric Great Sword
+4 Belt of Str
+2 Gloves of Dex

Attack abilities:
BAB +8
Attack bonus(+BAB+8 +6 Str +5 Insight +1 enhancement) = +20

Full Attack +20/+15
Full Attack with TWF(unarmed strike as offhand attack) +18/+18/+13

+4 to attack if Charging
+4 to Trip


this allows you to Charge with a Jump attack and reduce AC up to -8 gain +32 to damage... and get a Free Trip attack @ the same bonus... since you never Reduce Attack rolls... you will be very accurate and land your attacks.... even with a Low AC... if someone hits you, ... you get to hit back with the same bonus

this has great Skills ..... lots of Skill points:(100 skill points)(44 rogue +14 monk+18 ranger+10 fighter+14 Crusader)

awesome Class Skills:
[spoiler]
Appraise (Int)
Balance (Dex)
Bluff (Cha)
Climb (Str)
Concentration (Con)
Craft (Int)
Decipher Script (Int)
Diplomacy (Cha)
Disable Device (Int)
Disguise (Cha)
Escape Artist (Dex)
Forgery (Int)
Gather Information (Cha)
Handle Animal (Cha)
Heal (Wis)
Hide (Dex)
Intimidate (Cha)
Jump (Str)
Knowledge (arcana)
Knowledge (dungeoneering)
Knowledge (geography)
Knowledge (local)
Knowledge (nature)
Knowledge (religion)
Listen (Wis)
Move Silently (Dex)
Open Lock (Dex)
Perform (Cha)
Profession (Wis)
Ride (Dex)
Search (Int)
Sense Motive (Wis)
Sleight of Hand (Dex)
Spot (Wis)
Survival (Wis)
Swim (Str)
Tumble (Dex)
Use Magic Device (Cha)
Use Rope (Dex) [/spoiler]
suggested Skills:

5 ranks Balance (Dex)
1 rank Decipher Script (Int)
1 rank Disable Device (Int)
1 rank Handle Animal
1 rank Heal (Wis)
10 ranks Jump (Str)
10 ranks Knowledge (arcana)
10 ranks Knowledge (dungeoneering)
1 rank Knowledge (geography)
1 rank Knowledge (local)
10 ranks Knowledge (nature)
10 ranks Knowledge (religion)
10 ranks Knowledge (the Planes).... made class skill by Knowledge devotion feat
1 rank Open Lock (Dex)
5 ranks Search (Int)
5 ranks Sense Motive (Wis)
1 rank Sleight of Hand (Dex)
5 ranks Spot (Wis)
1 rank Survival (Wis)
5 ranks Tumble (Dex)
2 ranks Use Magic Device (Cha)


Cross class Skills:(4 points spent)
1 rank Knowledge (Nobility and royalty)
1 rank Spellcraft

and great Saves .... base saves +9/+9/+6 ... with bonuses +12/+12/+6 and Evasion


 :D
« Last Edit: August 14, 2008, 06:15:14 PM by carnivore »

Ubernoob

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Re: Help Needed with Trip Build
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2008, 06:32:51 PM »
How are you getting past the ranks in Know (Psionics) to qualify for Warmind?
Looks like someone didn't notice knowledge devotion at 3rd level.  I just realized that we need one knowledge as a class skill before that, so the crusader level need to be second or third.  No 2nd level maneuvers for us!  The class order should be:
Barbarian 1/ Crusader 1/ Barbarian +1/ Fighter 2/ Warmind 2/ Crusader +1/ Warmind +2
You haven't listed a human bonus feat. Why not shuffle Combat Reflexes and Knock-Down back to 1st and 6th levels, then take Martial Stance (Thicket of Blades) at 9th? Frees up Warmind 5.

Thanks for all the help, though. The character will now function, thanks to your efforts.
Normally I'd advocate taking a class level instead of a feat, but in this case it is a very good idea.  Just take a second crusader level and retrain the feat when you hit 11.

@Carnivore: Extensive write ups aren't really needed.  Decent buildcraft is.  Like, actually realizing that the OP wants battlefield control.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Help Needed with Trip Build
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2008, 07:09:02 PM »
@Carnivore: Extensive write ups aren't really needed.  Decent buildcraft is.  Like, actually realizing that the OP wants battlefield control.
??? His build has improved trip, knockdown, combat reflexes, karmic strike, and could have Thicket of Blades. And it's a charger, so it does something useful while closing with the enemy. How is that not decent battlefield control for a melee build?
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Ubernoob

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Re: Help Needed with Trip Build
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2008, 07:48:57 PM »
@Carnivore: Extensive write ups aren't really needed.  Decent buildcraft is.  Like, actually realizing that the OP wants battlefield control.
??? His build has improved trip, knockdown, combat reflexes, karmic strike, and could have Thicket of Blades. And it's a charger, so it does something useful while closing with the enemy. How is that not decent battlefield control for a melee build?
Less bab.  Less reach.  Wasted levels (ranger).

Let's see what happens when you toss the same flaws(for shock trooper and improved bullrush) and traits on the build I suggested:

More to hit (like, a lot).
Better strength checks for trips.
More reach.
Still kills in one hit on a charge (shock trooper to dump ac, hit, trip, free attack, haste attack, iterative=4 hits at around 2d6+20 PA+ 10ish str for a total of around 140 damage, but likely way higher from knowledge devotion and other bonuses I'm not counting).

So, his build has karmic strike, which blows donkey balls.  That's it for combat ability.  Frankly, that's shit compared to stuff like hustle and sweeping strike.  Absolute shit.

Edit: Yeah, leap attack really isn't that important.  What is important is the ability to get bigger for trip checks and cool stuff like hustle.  Full bab is also way cooler.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2008, 07:50:39 PM by ubernoob »
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AndyJames

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Re: Help Needed with Trip Build
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2008, 08:17:19 PM »
Warmind and PsyWar netts you the following:

Powers
Expansion: 30ft reach with Thicket of Blades. Think about it for a second  :smirk
Psionic Lion's Charge: For those times when you want to move.
Thicken Skin: Extra AC is always good, especially when you don't have a shield.
Force Screen: Again, extra AC.
Offensive/Defensive Precog: extra to-hit and AC. What's there not to like?

Abilities
Sweeping Strike: Couple this with Improved Trip and you can easily double+2 your number of attacks. Add Power Attack 4 and go to town for free.
Chains of... series: Gives massive combat bonuses x/day.
Bonus feats: Psionic Body will give extra hp, or get psionic mobility stunts like Up the Wall or Speed of Thought for when you have to move. Or just plain old Shock Trooper or other Fighter feats. Your choice.


Seriously, I don't see what is there not to like about it :)

Ubernoob

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Re: Help Needed with Trip Build
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2008, 08:58:00 PM »
Seriously, I don't see what is there not to like about it :)
The fact that after 9ish levels you can do this:
Monk 1: trade bonus feat for monastic training, take tashalatora(Warmind)
Monk 2: get a bonus feat like combat reflexes you took earlier and retrain that into weapon focus(hafted reach weapon of choice)
Later: Take pole master(hafted reach weapon of choice)

Guess what?  It cost us two levels and two level feats to get greater flurry with reach.  Don't we feel special?
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AndyJames

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Re: Help Needed with Trip Build
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2008, 08:59:54 PM »
Seriously, I don't see what is there not to like about it :)
The fact that after 9ish levels you can do this:
Monk 1: trade bonus feat for monastic training, take tashalatora(Warmind)
Monk 2: get a bonus feat like combat reflexes you took earlier and retrain that into weapon focus(hafted reach weapon of choice)
Later: Take pole master(hafted reach weapon of choice)

Guess what?  It cost us two levels and two level feats to get greater flurry with reach.  Don't we feel special?
Bah! Eberron and retraining. Two things that generally don't enter into my equations :(

Ubernoob

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Re: Help Needed with Trip Build
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2008, 09:03:29 PM »
BTW, the musclebound trait is suboptimal.  Initiative is a dexterity check.
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Blade2718

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Re: Help Needed with Trip Build
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2008, 10:36:49 PM »
How are you getting past the ranks in Know (Psionics) to qualify for Warmind?
Looks like someone didn't notice knowledge devotion at 3rd level.  I just realized that we need one knowledge as a class skill before that, so the crusader level need to be second or third.  No 2nd level maneuvers for us!  The class order should be:
Barbarian 1/ Crusader 1/ Barbarian +1/ Fighter 2/ Warmind 2/ Crusader +1/ Warmind +2
I actually never knew that Knowledge Devotion added a Knowledge to you class skill list.  Cool beans.

Ubernoob

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Re: Help Needed with Trip Build
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2008, 10:49:10 PM »
I actually never knew that Knowledge Devotion added a Knowledge to you class skill list.  Cool beans.
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