ToB + AMF

[fil kearney]

From a metagaming perspective, The antimagic trick should be allowed to work against mooks and random encounters, but any BBEG/ important smart caster types should be allowed to rcognized typical PC tactics, and have set plans/contengents against said cheezery. 

If that isn't obvious, then yer welcome.  Otherwise, nothing wron with it.  expensive trick to use against chumps tho. 

IF he has used the anti magic beat down trick less than twice in the course of his entire career, I'd say he can still catch highly intelligent oposition off guard...  but if it's a routine, I'd think he'd earn a reputation for being the anitmagic sword guy.  PC's love/hate it when they earn reps in your world. 

I've got some PC"s in the Gestalt game getting dangerously close to that same situation.

[Akalsaris]

Oh I agree that versatility is awesome. And I agree that just because X beats Y doesn't mean it always wins. Everything is situational.  Not everything can fly naturally, so without that, AMF'ing a flying caster is not going to happen... You know, unless, as you pointed out, you can fly up first and then activate the AMF. Which is fucking retarded, since you're both taking the falling damage at that point...

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with your point, Lost. AMF is a weapon and should be used intelligently. A bow user may be able to use a bow in melee, but that's situational, just like throwing a (returning) sword, etc.  However, since AMFs are big threats to most casters, most have ways to get around it. It's not the perfect solution, but it's a valid balancing one, as you point out.

Hey, I'll match my d12 HP against your d4's for falling damage any day of the week!

Especially if I've got that OA feat that makes falling into a double damage charge ;P

[Desca]

but any BBEG/ important smart caster types should be allowed to rcognized typical PC tactics, and have set plans/contengents against said cheezery. 

If that isn't obvious, then yer welcome.  Otherwise, nothing wron with it.  expensive trick to use against chumps tho. 

IF he has used the anti magic beat down trick less than twice in the course of his entire career, I'd say he can still catch highly intelligent oposition off guard...  but if it's a routine, I'd think he'd earn a reputation for being the anitmagic sword guy.  PC's love/hate it when they earn reps in your world. 

The party has won a little reputation being lvl 14... they have at least 3 Greater Scrying/day from three different caster BBEGs and they don't care, but the Warblade doesn't have the torc yet so it's not a typical tactic and the BBEG may not be prepared (although typical BC/escape tricks may be common too)

Anyway, the original idea of the AMF wasn't to nullify spellcasters. He fought 2 enemy's who used magic or Radiant Swords to do touch attacks, and fears Clericzillas (cause there's one in the party), or any melee BBEG using buffs/magical concealment/magical touch attacks, etc. Any one-trick-melee-pony who uses magic should be screwed against him.

Can anyone tell me the source of the "No SR Inst spells hit through AMF" rule ?

[Sinfire Titan]

(The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)

Orbs have Instananeous duration and are Conjuration (Creation) spells.

[Desca]

That's after "If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature", indicating what happens if you walk into a conjuration, not if a conjuration is shot at you.

"An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it."


Am I that wrong?

[AfterCrescent]

It's not suppressing the spell, because the duration is instantaneous. it has already been created, which is why it is a Conjuration (Creation) spell. The AMF does not dispel (or counterspell) it, so it takes effect.  The best way to imagine it is the caster creating a literal orb of X and throwing it into the AMF. By the time it reaches the AMF, it already exists, and slams into the intended target.

[Desca]

Only with Conjuration (creation) spells, right?

Well thank you anyway 

[Sinfire Titan]

Only with Conjuration (creation) spells, right?

Well thank you anyway 

Yes. Its one of the many, many reasons Conjuration is broken.

[bahamut920]

Only with Conjuration (creation) spells, right?

Well thank you anyway 

Yes. Its one of the many, many reasons Conjuration is broken.

What?  You don't like those nonmagical magical orbs of force? 

[Sinfire Titan]

Only with Conjuration (creation) spells, right?

Well thank you anyway 

Yes. Its one of the many, many reasons Conjuration is broken.

What?  You don't like those nonmagical magical orbs of force? 

Mechanics-wise, I love them. Flavor-wise, not so much.