Author Topic: Grace Under Fire: A Dex based crossbow gunner  (Read 12368 times)

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Rejakor

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Re: Grace Under Fire: A Dex based crossbow gunner
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2011, 07:45:52 AM »
Aren't there noticeable penalties to mounted archery without the appropriate feats?

Collision and knowledge devotion together add like what, +10?  You'd want GMW available if you were going to use collision, too, unless you were using collision raptor bolts and getting magic plusses from your great crossbow.

Why does a scout need to be on foot?

Is there some reason manyshot/greater manyshot doesn't work with xbows?

Might want to note that weapon spec/ranged weapon mastery can be traded out for manyshot et al for greater tactical flexibility at early levels.

Also, a cloistered cleric dip could be an option for move+full attack, instead of something, looking at that build, probably push back Targeteer 3 by 1 level, or slot it in after ranger 2.  Gets you travel devotion and knowledge devotion.

JaronK

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Re: Grace Under Fire: A Dex based crossbow gunner
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2011, 07:50:51 AM »
Aren't there noticeable penalties to mounted archery without the appropriate feats?

You'd need the Mounted Archery feat.  That's about it, and I intentionally left a lot of the build open.  If you really wanted you could go Halfling Outrider to have no penalties ever, but honestly I think a mount getting a move action is sufficient for most circumstances.

Quote
Collision and knowledge devotion together add like what, +10?  You'd want GMW available if you were going to use collision, too, unless you were using collision raptor bolts and getting magic plusses from your great crossbow.

Oh you'd absolutely want GMW too.  If you wanted to really pump your damage, you could get extra arms via various methods and dual wield while using Warblade levels to get Dancing Mongoose and the like.  Double machineguns!

Quote
Why does a scout need to be on foot?

Skirmish, annoyingly enough, doesn't work while mounted (Complete Adventurer Errata or FAQ, I forget which).

Quote
Is there some reason manyshot/greater manyshot doesn't work with xbows?

No, that works too.

Quote
Might want to note that weapon spec/ranged weapon mastery can be traded out for manyshot et al for greater tactical flexibility at early levels.

Sure, you could do that. 

Quote
Also, a cloistered cleric dip could be an option for move+full attack, instead of something, looking at that build, probably push back Targeteer 3 by 1 level, or slot it in after ranger 2.  Gets you travel devotion and knowledge devotion.

That works too.  This is really just a basic "hey, there's a possible build concept to work with here."

JaronK

Rejakor

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Re: Grace Under Fire: A Dex based crossbow gunner
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2011, 07:59:26 AM »
Might as well flesh it out a little with options/ideas.

Is feat rogue 4 eligible for weapon spec?

If so, probably go that instead of Targeteer, and at some point chuck a level of swashbuckler on there with Daring Outlaw (you probably want weapon finesse for your holdout, too, although what use a quickrazor is going to be to you compared to 5' step backward and full attack, I don't know - swallowed whole, maybe?  +1 spell storing quickrazor with Vampiric Touch or something in it would be a nice thing to have on you in that situation.  Reminds me.  This build would benefit from Close-Quarters Fighting.. whatever it's called, the grapple-killing one.  Or a way to shoot in melee/grapples/swallowed.).

JaronK

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Re: Grace Under Fire: A Dex based crossbow gunner
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2011, 10:17:00 AM »
You need Targetteer to get access to Vital Aim (which is one source of Dex to damage) and no, Feat Rogue can't get Weapon Spec (which I think is worthwhile for an archer).

JaronK

snakeman830

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Re: Grace Under Fire: A Dex based crossbow gunner
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2011, 11:22:23 AM »
Needs more Boomerang Ricochet and Boomerang Daze :p  Why hit them for heavy damage when you can hit them and their adjacent buddy for heavy damage and daze them both?
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Rymosrac

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Re: Grace Under Fire: A Dex based crossbow gunner
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2011, 12:47:53 PM »
Also note that staggering strike, though fantastic, only works in melee.
Shh. My common sense is tingling. . .

Rejakor

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Re: Grace Under Fire: A Dex based crossbow gunner
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2011, 08:37:37 AM »
Eheh, god I love how feats that specify a specific weapon always specify that weapon and not a type of attack.

Quote
slap on the appropriate stuff.

I was actually referring to Targeteer 3 and 4, as in, you could replace them with feat rogue for more skillpoints/useful stuff.

Also, the archery handbooks I saw while trying to build a crossbow-using tactical mercenary for a friend for a game I was running didn't have anything that magic proofed the build.  Most of them barely managed to mention splitting, and different arrows enchanted with different enchants.

Personally i'd be tempted to get manyshot or travel devotion before bothering with weapon spec/mastery.

I'm also kind of curious if there's any other feats good for ranged people other than the ones listed.

skydragonknight

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Re: Grace Under Fire: A Dex based crossbow gunner
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2011, 10:09:01 AM »
Personally i'd be tempted to get manyshot or travel devotion before bothering with weapon spec/mastery.

I'm also kind of curious if there's any other feats good for ranged people other than the ones listed.

Leadership a Griffon, Pegasus or other intelligent flying mount. Give the Intelligent Mount support abilities like stances that affect allies with a Martial Adept dip. Or some Bard levels with Song of the Heart and other stuff. Break-dancing Pegasus in mid-air, anyone?
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Rejakor

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Re: Grace Under Fire: A Dex based crossbow gunner
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2011, 10:18:16 AM »
Get Down!

Bard

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Re: Grace Under Fire: A Dex based crossbow gunner
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2011, 08:57:39 PM »
Since the Great Xbow has already Aptitude on and an interesting Critical Range... and it shoots a ton of arrow... would adding in Lightening Mace help? :P
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BrainCandy

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Re: Grace Under Fire: A Dex based crossbow gunner
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2011, 09:25:42 PM »
I am currently playing almost that exact character. Mine is Targeteer 2/ranger2/Exotic weapon master 1/rogue 15. This toon was built primarily to be a super skillmonkey but the Xbow DPS is sick. My build is sneak attack/craven based as opposed to yours.

Btw, the reason to take that exotic weapon master level is so that you don't need a backup melee weapon. You can use that great xbow in melee just fine, without taking AOO's. In my case, I slapped a bayonet on it so I can threaten squares. I can sneak attack people that I have flanked, since with the bayonet I can actually flank them while shooting. With the penetrating strike ACF, I can sneak attack anything that I flank for at least half SA damage.

With just basic gear my max volley damage is 1696 with a +35 ranged BAB.

radionausea

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Re: Grace Under Fire: A Dex based crossbow gunner
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2011, 12:10:55 PM »
My knowledge of crossbow feats is poor at best.  What's giving you the 2.5*Dex Mod at level 6?

Crossbow Sniper gives half dex to damage with crossbows in addition to raising sneak attack range to 60'.  Vital Aim just gives dex to damage with ranged weapons.  Deadeye Shot gives Dex to damage within 30' if the enemy isn't immune to sneak attacks. The sum total is 2.5*Dex to damage within 30', 1.5*Dex outside that range (or against sneak attack immunes).

JaronK

Is it the Deadeye Shot from PHII?  Because that one just says that the target loses their dex bonus against my attack.

That's what I thought as well.  But I did some digging and there's a feat just called Dead Eye in Dragon Compendium I (originally dragon #304).
[spoiler]Your precision with ranged weapons translates into
more telling strikes than you could normally make.
Prerequisites: Dex 17, Point Blank Shot, Weapon
Focus (any ranged weapon), base attack bonus +14.
Benefit: You may add your Dexterity bonus on
damage rolls made with ranged weapons for which
you have the Weapon Focus feat, so long as the target
is within 30 feet.
Special: Dead Eye does not increase the damage dealt
to creatures immune to critical hits.
A fighter may select Dead Eye as one of his fighter
bonus feats.[/spoiler]

edit: Which unless I'm missing something means it can't be taken at that level as it has BAB +14 as a requirement.
edit2: The one in dragon 304 has bab+1 as a requirement.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 12:17:32 PM by radionausea »
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Shadowhunter

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Re: Grace Under Fire: A Dex based crossbow gunner
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2011, 12:25:13 PM »
My knowledge of crossbow feats is poor at best.  What's giving you the 2.5*Dex Mod at level 6?

Crossbow Sniper gives half dex to damage with crossbows in addition to raising sneak attack range to 60'.  Vital Aim just gives dex to damage with ranged weapons.  Deadeye Shot gives Dex to damage within 30' if the enemy isn't immune to sneak attacks. The sum total is 2.5*Dex to damage within 30', 1.5*Dex outside that range (or against sneak attack immunes).

JaronK

Is it the Deadeye Shot from PHII?  Because that one just says that the target loses their dex bonus against my attack.

That's what I thought as well.  But I did some digging and there's a feat just called Dead Eye in Dragon Compendium I (originally dragon #304).
[spoiler]Your precision with ranged weapons translates into
more telling strikes than you could normally make.
Prerequisites: Dex 17, Point Blank Shot, Weapon
Focus (any ranged weapon), base attack bonus +14.
Benefit: You may add your Dexterity bonus on
damage rolls made with ranged weapons for which
you have the Weapon Focus feat, so long as the target
is within 30 feet.
Special: Dead Eye does not increase the damage dealt
to creatures immune to critical hits.
A fighter may select Dead Eye as one of his fighter
bonus feats.[/spoiler]

edit: Which unless I'm missing something means it can't be taken at that level as it has BAB +14 as a requirement.
edit2: The one in dragon 304 has bab+1 as a requirement.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9073.0

Quote from: Me
In Dragon Compendium, there is a feat on page 95.
Quote
DEAD EYE [GENERAL]
Your precision with ranged weapons translates into more telling strikes than you could normally make.

Prerequisites: Dex 17, Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (any ranged weapon), base attack bonus +14.

Benefit: You may add your Dexterity bonus on damage rolls made with ranged weapons for which
you have the Weapon Focus feat, so long as the target is within 30 feet.

Special: Dead Eye does not increase the damage dealt to creatures immune to critical hits.
A fighter may select Dead Eye as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Author: Clifford Horrowitz. Source: #304.

NOTE: As per the errata, the BAB requirement drops from a staggering +14 to a minimal +1.

Dead Eye can be combined with either HaR or Vital Aim.
As with Vital Aim, it is Precision Damage.
[Spoiler]
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radionausea

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Re: Grace Under Fire: A Dex based crossbow gunner
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2011, 12:30:58 PM »
That might be one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen.
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radionausea

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Re: Grace Under Fire: A Dex based crossbow gunner
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2011, 12:48:45 PM »
Would it be possible to have that in the handbooks section at all, I had no idea it existed?
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Shadowhunter

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Re: Grace Under Fire: A Dex based crossbow gunner
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2011, 01:21:28 PM »
That might be one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen.

Thank you :)

Would it be possible to have that in the handbooks section at all, I had no idea it existed?

I've been thinking of making that into a minor handbook, but I need to include a few more things and format the text better. Dividing it up into stabbity-stab hints, throwing hints, shooting hints and general hints for one thing etc.
After I'm done with that, I'll post it in the Handbook section.
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

Rejakor

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Re: Grace Under Fire: A Dex based crossbow gunner
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2011, 02:36:08 PM »
And then I shall incorporate that into the How To Do Damage section of my Duelist's Handbook.

Moo Ha Ha Ha.