My next cleric [Thinking out loud]

[Ubernoob]

I'm not sure of why you'd have Zen Archery when you could just Extend or Persist divine agility.  Yes, you could do it with Zen + owl's insight, but that's not until Supernatural limited wish.

I'm not using CW zen archery.  I'm using a much cooler version.  Plus, my dex will be 30 max.  My wis will be around 18+2+3+5+6= 34 at all times.

[Blade2718]

Where is this cool Zen Archery you speak of and how may I bask in its apparent gloriousness?  Imagine that with owl's insight??  Also, the feat you're thinking of is indeed Magical Training.

[Ubernoob]

Where is this cool Zen Archery you speak of and how may I bask in its apparent gloriousness?  Imagine that with owl's insight??  Also, the feat you're thinking of is indeed Magical Training.

Races of war.
www.tgdmb.com
Click the humble opinion forum.  Click the Tomes sticky.  Click Races of War.

PSP don't link so well.

[ronyon]

Since it would seem that you might be worshiping something, and with all this Domain talk flying around, I must suggest the Substitute Domain spell. Its from Complete Champion and it lets you switch out one of the domain that you picked for a Domain you could have picked, limited only by what your god offers.
So take that Undeath Domain for the turning, and ditch it after you use up said turns. Or take Knowledge and Trickery for the skills and never use them except when you level up.This is a second level spell that lasts one day per level.
 

[AfterCrescent]

As long as you're picking a deity, that's not a bad idea. It doesn't work without a deity. i.e. if you worship and idea.

[Ubernoob]

Since it would seem that you might be worshiping something, and with all this Domain talk flying around, I must suggest the Substitute Domain spell. Its from Complete Champion and it lets you switch out one of the domain that you picked for a Domain you could have picked, limited only by what your god offers.
So take that Undeath Domain for the turning, and ditch it after you use up said turns. Or take Knowledge and Trickery for the skills and never use them except when you level up.This is a second level spell that lasts one day per level.
 

That's a snazy idea, but I don't know of any deity that offers spell, magic, and planning (or just spell and magic).

[Blade2718]

Since it would seem that you might be worshiping something, and with all this Domain talk flying around, I must suggest the Substitute Domain spell. Its from Complete Champion and it lets you switch out one of the domain that you picked for a Domain you could have picked, limited only by what your god offers.
So take that Undeath Domain for the turning, and ditch it after you use up said turns. Or take Knowledge and Trickery for the skills and never use them except when you level up.This is a second level spell that lasts one day per level.
 

That's a snazy idea, but I don't know of any deity that offers spell, magic, and planning (or just spell and magic).

I think Azuth from FR.

[AndyJames]

Planning occurs in Red Knight and a couple of others. I don't know if Azuth is one of them.

On a related, but off-topic note: I know for certain that none of them offer Undeath and Planning...

[Ubernoob]

Since it would seem that you might be worshiping something, and with all this Domain talk flying around, I must suggest the Substitute Domain spell. Its from Complete Champion and it lets you switch out one of the domain that you picked for a Domain you could have picked, limited only by what your god offers.
So take that Undeath Domain for the turning, and ditch it after you use up said turns. Or take Knowledge and Trickery for the skills and never use them except when you level up.This is a second level spell that lasts one day per level.
 

That's a snazy idea, but I don't know of any deity that offers spell, magic, and planning (or just spell and magic).

I think Azuth from FR.

OK, he doesn't offer planning.  Not sure how I'll free up a feat now...  Still have to be a "pick my domains cleric" unless I can get magic, planning (I'll settle for anything that grants a feat I need here such as rune), and spell all under one deity.  This is hard.  Can we get 3 domains I need from one deity?

[AndyJames]

Mystra has Magic, Spell and Rune.

[Ubernoob]

Mystra has Magic, Spell and Rune.

That is epic win.  I just realized that initiate of mystra means I don't need the spell domain.  Worships Mystra.
LN.
Cloistered Cleric 3/ Church Inquisitor 2/ Dweomerkeeper 5/ Contemplative 1/ Dweomerkeeper +1
Cleric Domains: Rune, Magic, trade knowledge for knowledge devotion, pick up inquisition from church inquisitor, grab spell from contemplative.
Feats:
1) Magical Training (or whatever that FR feat is that lets me get into DwK without losing casting)
3) Extend Spell
6) Persist Spell
9) DMM: Persist
12) Zen Archery

Mantle of Spells:
1) Anyspell
2) Delay Death
3) Revify
4) I don't actually get this many

At level 15 I get another feat that I can spend on initiate of mystra.

[AndyJames]

I am not sure if you can use Anyspell like that. IIRC, you cast Anyspell to sort of mimic a spell of up to x level (3, for the lesser one, IIRC). That means you don't actually get Wraithstrike as part of your spells known/castable and so you can't get it into your Mantle. You can get Anyspell into your Mantle, though it might be a bit high level.

[Ubernoob]

I am not sure if you can use Anyspell like that. IIRC, you cast Anyspell to sort of mimic a spell of up to x level (3, for the lesser one, IIRC). That means you don't actually get Wraithstrike as part of your spells known/castable and so you can't get it into your Mantle. You can get Anyspell into your Mantle, though it might be a bit high level.

Can I get a solid RAW analysis?  It's not a big deal (one level higher once per day, not a huge thing), but I thought you did "cast" it qualifying for mantle of spells.

[AndyJames]

Well, you cast Anyspell to get it. It is not something that is normally castable by you (i.e., not on your spell list/spells known). For example, a Sorcerer Dweomerkeeper cannot put in any spell in the Wizard/Sorcerer spell list unless he actually knows that spell (which sort of defeats the purpose, but that is another story). He technically *can* cast any spell in the list, he just have to know it. But because he doesn't know it, he can't put it into the Mantle.

With Clerics, this is different. They *can* cast any spell on their list, provided they prepared it. However, Wraithstrike is not on that list. Technically, they can't cast it. They can cast Anyspell to get it, but they can't cast it normally. I believe it would be a DM call, at the very least, on this one. I would personally not allow it. But that is just IMO.

[AfterCrescent]

The way Anyspell works, RAW, is that you prepare it in your domain slot. Spend 15 minutes casting it. Then your domain slot is occupied by the spell you read from a scroll/spellbook.  So you can use Mantle to get Anyspell and spontaneously cast it, but you won't be able to spontaneously cast Wraithstrike until you manage to get it on your cleric spell list somehow.

The way Anyspell works with Initiate of Mystra is that it changes "domain slot" into just a standard spell slot, so you aren't limited to just one Anyspell/day.

[Ubernoob]

The way Anyspell works, RAW, is that you prepare it in your domain slot. Spend 15 minutes casting it. Then your domain slot is occupied by the spell you read from a scroll/spellbook.  So you can use Mantle to get Anyspell and spontaneously cast it, but you won't be able to spontaneously cast Wraithstrike until you manage to get it on your cleric spell list somehow.

The way Anyspell works with Initiate of Mystra is that it changes "domain slot" into just a standard spell slot, so you aren't limited to just one Anyspell/day.

Well, one slot higher.  No big deal.  Thanks for all the help guys.

[AndyJames]

Also note that you need that spellbook with Wraithstrike on it for Anyspell to work (or a scroll).

[AfterCrescent]

I don't know how much you're going to (ab)use Initiate of Mystra, but if you're going to be using AMFs as a shield, you may want to take extraordinary spell aim (CAdv). Odd little wording, but it would make you impervious to the AMF, so all your stuff works AND you can cast in it, but when people get close, they'll regret it.

[Ubernoob]

Also note that you need that spellbook with Wraithstrike on it for Anyspell to work (or a scroll).

Not an issue with the wish economy.

I don't know how much you're going to (ab)use Initiate of Mystra, but if you're going to be using AMFs as a shield, you may want to take extraordinary spell aim (CAdv). Odd little wording, but it would make you impervious to the AMF, so all your stuff works AND you can cast in it, but when people get close, they'll regret it.

A rod of sculpt spell should be enough should I choose to go that route.

[AfterCrescent]

A rod of sculpt spell should be enough should I choose to go that route.

Depends on the DM. Extraordinary spell aim makes you immune to the AMF, sculpt spell just makes your square not affected by the AMF. XSA won't allow those arrows shot at you to regain all their magical properties when they hit, since they'll be in the AMF. Sculpt Spell will. Just food for thought.