Author Topic: Custom Weapon Addon - Vampiric Artifice  (Read 5044 times)

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jojolagger

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Re: Custom Weapon Addon - Vampiric Artifice
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2011, 09:06:50 PM »
You can certainly put it on different item creation feats but if those feats are used together, its effects don't stack per the stacking rules.
:eh Rules citation please. This isn't a named bonus or a spell effect, which is all i know there are stacking rules for.
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Bastian

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Re: Custom Weapon Addon - Vampiric Artifice
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2011, 09:23:30 PM »
You can certainly put it on different item creation feats but if those feats are used together, its effects don't stack per the stacking rules.
:eh Rules citation please. This isn't a named bonus or a spell effect, which is all i know there are stacking rules for.
I just checked and you are right. WotC fail. :lmao That's perfect, I'll need to add that to my handbook.

jojolagger

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Re: Custom Weapon Addon - Vampiric Artifice
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2011, 10:03:18 PM »
I just checked and you are right. WotC fail. :lmao That's perfect, I'll need to add that to my handbook.
Happy to help the handbook. I was worried for a moment there, because the guy who literally wrote the book on cheap crafting said my method didn't work.
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In other words, he thinks there's a "correct" way to play D&D.  *sigh*
There is: Kill shit and loot the corpse!
When you use a tool the way it was designed for -- its intended function -- then it will work very well for you.

But it's not the tool's fault if you use it for something else and you fail utterly, such as trying to eat cereal with a butterknife, pounding nails with a screwdriver, blogging to voice your political opinions, and brushing your teeth with a hammer.
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Bastian

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Re: Custom Weapon Addon - Vampiric Artifice
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2011, 10:57:08 PM »
I just checked and you are right. WotC fail. :lmao That's perfect, I'll need to add that to my handbook.
Happy to help the handbook. I was worried for a moment there, because the guy who literally wrote the book on cheap crafting said my method didn't work.
Sorry about that, I'd been working on a vague recollection of the stacking rule that made it apply to everything not just spells and bonuses. Too many games with good DMs and not enough time staring at the blinding stupidity of the rules as written, I guess.

Cagemarrow

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Re: Custom Weapon Addon - Vampiric Artifice
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2011, 11:32:49 AM »
So if I understand that right if magical artisan is added to legenday, extroardinary, exceptional, and the item creation feat it would reduce the total market price by 25% each? What's that equate to for total reduction?

Crazy, would definately get rid of my concerns about xp burn.


jojolagger

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Re: Custom Weapon Addon - Vampiric Artifice
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2011, 12:21:51 PM »
So if I understand that right if magical artisan is added to legenday, extroardinary, exceptional, and the item creation feat it would reduce the total market price by 25% each? What's that equate to for total reduction?
Crazy, would definately get rid of my concerns about xp burn.
31.6 %. which means you craft at 15.8% the items cost in gp (normally 50%) and 1.27% the items cost in xp (normally 4%).
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In other words, he thinks there's a "correct" way to play D&D.  *sigh*
There is: Kill shit and loot the corpse!
When you use a tool the way it was designed for -- its intended function -- then it will work very well for you.

But it's not the tool's fault if you use it for something else and you fail utterly, such as trying to eat cereal with a butterknife, pounding nails with a screwdriver, blogging to voice your political opinions, and brushing your teeth with a hammer.
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Shadowhunter

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Re: Custom Weapon Addon - Vampiric Artifice
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2011, 12:37:31 PM »
[spoiler]Magical Artisan [General]
You have mastered the method of creating a certain kind of magic item.
Prerequisite: Any item creation feat.
Benefit: Each time you take this feat, choose one item creation
feat you know. When determining your cost in XP and raw materials
for creating items with this feat, multiply the base price by 75%.
Special: You may gain this feat multiple times. Each time you
take the feat, it applies to a new item creation feat.[/spoiler]

Ok. So... you take Magical Artisan, key it to Craft Wand.
Now every time you craft a wand, it's at 25% cost reduction...

Oh, wait, now I get it. Legendary/Extraordinary/Exceptional Artisan are all [Item Creation] feats.
That's just silly. Effective as hell, but silly.
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Cagemarrow

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Re: Custom Weapon Addon - Vampiric Artifice
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2011, 11:09:53 AM »
That also makes crafting golems a lot more feasible. Especially since thats before Gold and XP cost from the Legendary and Extroardinary feats as well.

.75 (LA MA) x .75 (ExA MA) x .75 (ExcA MA) x .75 (Craft Golem) = .316 Base Price for Gold, Time, and XP
.316 x .75 for Extroardinary Artisan = .237 Base Cost for gold
(.316 x .75 for Legendary Artisan) / 25 = .00948 for XP
.316 x .75 for Exceptional Artisan = .237 Base cost to calculate time

Does this seem right? Are there any items that require two item creation feats that this could stack onto as well?

Add in DMM Persistant to reduce Continuous Item costs by 50% for qualifying spells and scrolls are now dirt cheap and may actually see play in our games. Most times people horde them thinking it a waste of gold.

Nytemare3701

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Re: Custom Weapon Addon - Vampiric Artifice
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2011, 01:26:09 PM »
I have always wanted to make a character with expendable (combat viable though) golems. He always has one in his portable hole to activate if the last one dies, and he always gets annoyed at them when they inevitably kick the bucket.

jojolagger

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Re: Custom Weapon Addon - Vampiric Artifice
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2011, 03:21:41 PM »
Does this seem right? Are there any items that require two item creation feats that this could stack onto as well?
Bind elemental implies it can be used with anything, and the enhance item feat (non-epic feat from the ELH), can be added to one of the eberron artisan feats and then have magical applied to it for another reduction.

If we only focus on general crafting using this, we get the 3 eberron artisan feats (total -25% to all), bind elemental (-10% if used right), enhance item(no cost reduction, but DC's will be higher), and 5 copies of magical artisan (5 * -25%).
totals to .75*.75*.75*.75*.75*.75*.9 or 16.018% normal. That's 8.009% the items cost as gp, 0.641 % the items cost as xp.

If you further get a specific craft to use, you can drop it another 25%, for 12.014 % normal crafting. That's 6.007% the items cost as gp, and 0.481% the items cost as xp.
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In other words, he thinks there's a "correct" way to play D&D.  *sigh*
There is: Kill shit and loot the corpse!
When you use a tool the way it was designed for -- its intended function -- then it will work very well for you.

But it's not the tool's fault if you use it for something else and you fail utterly, such as trying to eat cereal with a butterknife, pounding nails with a screwdriver, blogging to voice your political opinions, and brushing your teeth with a hammer.
[/spoiler]

Cagemarrow

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Re: Custom Weapon Addon - Vampiric Artifice
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2011, 05:49:48 PM »
And all of this before applying the other item reduction options. I should have named this thread something else. It's too bad I expect my Artificer to be killed/kidnapped long before all of these can come online in our E6 game. He's going to become an incredibly valuable property once it becomes known that he can pump out such items. Could be a fun story to run in and of itself, hiding from the various factions trying to steal him while still trying to further the party's goals of disrupting the city government.


Nytemare3701

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Re: Custom Weapon Addon - Vampiric Artifice
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2011, 06:41:12 PM »
Can someone go over this with me one more time, maybe in a list format?

Cagemarrow

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Re: Custom Weapon Addon - Vampiric Artifice
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2011, 08:58:51 PM »
So what we've figured out is Magical Artisan, from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book gives you a 25% cost reduction when applied to an Item Creation feat used to make a magical item.

The following are all magic item creation feats that can be applied to the creation of any magic item so you can apply Magical Artisan to each of them when making a magical item.

Legendary Artisan (ECS) - Consider the base price of the item to be 25% less when calculating XP
Extraordinary Artisan (ECS) - Consider the base price of the item to be 25% less when calculating GP
Exceptional Artisan (ECS) -  Consider the base price of the item to be 25% less when calculating Time to create
Bind Elemental (ECS) - bind an elemental into the item to reduce the base cost of the item
Enhance Item (ELH, non Epic General Feat) - base the DC to resist the item on your casting stat, instead of the minimum

So add 5 Magical Artisan reductions, 1 reduction from the ECS Artisan Feats, and then if you add one to the item creation feat itself add another (example Craft Wonderous Item) for a total of
.75 x .75 x .75 x .75 x .75 x .75 x .75 = 0.177978515625 x Base cost for the new Base Cost
New base cost / 2 = 0.089 is the new Cost to Craft
base cost / 25 = 0.007 is the new cost in XP

So a normal 1st level wand of cure light wounds = 1 Caster Level x Spell Level 1 x 750 GP = 750 Base Cost
With the adjustments, assuming Craft Wands also has Magical Artisan applied = 750 x .178 = 133.5 Base Cost, Crafting cost is 66.75 GP and 5.34 XP
This is assuming that only a medium size elemental is bound into the item. You can further reduce the price by 5% for each size category bigger than medium of elemental that you bind into the item.

Now lets apply this to a bigger item, how about an Airship from Eberron: Base Cost is 92000 GP, Crafting cost is 46000 GP and 3680 XP
With the above item reductions though the new price is: Base Cost 16374.02 GP, Crafting Cost is 8187.01 GP and 654.96 XP

This also affects time to craft the item as well, it takes 1 day per 1000 GP of the base cost to make a magic item. With the new base cost it only takes 17 days to make an Airship from scratch. :) For the wand you could possibly argue that you could craft 125 GP worth of base cost per hour, though there's no specific rule for this that I know of. Just that a day crafting uses 8 hours of your day.

This last example is outside the scope of my E6 game since it requires Greater Planar Binding as a spell and I doubt that can be found as a 3rd level or lower spell, but it shows how crazy this feat investment can really be.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 09:03:05 PM by Cagemarrow »

Nytemare3701

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Re: Custom Weapon Addon - Vampiric Artifice
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2011, 12:32:47 AM »
Alright, I think I've wrapped my head around it now. That is a ridiculous amount of feats though.

*runs off to finish his artificer with antifeats*

Cagemarrow

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Re: Custom Weapon Addon - Vampiric Artifice
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2011, 05:30:25 AM »
A 20th level artificer could do it with just 2 flaws I think if they used all of their feats for it.