Something I just noticed...

[Amechra]

I would like you to all check the Ettercap Berserker feat.

"Why do you want us to look at that? It's just a +2 to Con while raging and a +2 to saves vs. Poison. And it's regional; I would rather take the one that gives me pounce, or somethin'"

To that, I say the following: the feat doesn't add 2 to the Con bonus from raging, it sets it to 6.

Now, grab a Rage variant...

Whirling Frenzy looks like normal rage+ with this feat; sure you can't stack it with anything else, but you get an extra attack, +6 to Con, +4 Str, and +2 to AC and Reflex saves.

However, Ferocity looks great with this; +4 Str, +4 Dex, and +6 Con at 1st level, anyone?

Combo with Reckless Rage for some really nice bonuses...

What clinches this, though, is that this makes Frenzy grant a bonus to Constitution... Which, stacked with normal Rage (I wouldn't bother with one of the special ones), gives a collective +10 Str and +12 Con, which grows to +14 Str and +16 Con with Reckless Rage. Those are UNTYPED bonuses, thank you very much.

Of course, stack Ferocity and Rage at 3rd level as a Half-Orc Barbarian 1/Half-Orc Paragon 2, which gives you a +8 Str, +4 Dex, and +12 Con, which rises to +12 Str, +4 Dex, and +16 Con.

I do like my +8 HP per HD, thanks.

[Nytemare3701]

Doesn't the "Normal" entry cancel that out? At the very least, it clearly states the intent of the feat.

[AriasDerros]

No. Ettercap has "ability to Rage" as a prereq. Ferocity and Frenzy are ACFs that specify that you DO NOT gain rage, but instead one of these other two. Even if you could get the feat with Ferocity, Ettercap changes your rage, not Ferocity.

Any DM who house-rules that you can take the feat would also house rule the +2 not +6 issue.

To make this work, you would have to gain rage form one source, take the feat, and have the ACF of your desire from a different source to stack them. So you could be an Awakened Wolverine Barbarian, but then we come back to there being better choices, because your rage still isn't that much better.

[Amechra]

Most Rage variants are understood to count as Rage for this kind of thing.

If the first part doesn't work, you could always take 2 levels of Half-Orc Paragon and take it then...

[Caelic]

Most Rage variants are understood to count as Rage for this kind of thing.

The intent of the feat is, I think, pretty darned clear; you're making an argument that, by RAW, it works regardless of intent.  As soon as you have to say, "Well, it's understood," a strict RAW argument collapses.  The feat grants those bonuses while raging, not while using ACFs that replace rage.  If you had levels of half-orc paragon, then you'd be able to use the feat with the half-orc's rage, but not (by RAW) with the class-based ACFs.

[sirpercival]

So if you're a whirling frenzy or ferocity barbarian, you can't use those ACFs by RAW to qualify for any PrC that requires rage?

[weenog]

Well Whirling Frenzy at least calls itself a "variant form of rage", talks about entering a rage, and says that it "is otherwise identical to the standard barbarian rage in all other ways."  Qualifying for (and activating) rage-related feats and prestige classes is not specified as something it won't do, so for that purpose it works identically to a rage, which qualifies for and activates those things.

Berserker Strength, not so much.

[KellKheraptis]

If it's a feat, what's stopping the intrepid low level barbarian nomad from taking Ettercap Berserker as a feat and the Lion Totem as an ACF?  Or for that matter as his second level 1 feat from being a human, Battle Jump?  Can't all of that be bypassed with 2 ranks of Knowledge (Local) if not?  Makes me wanna build a maniac Frenzied Berserker now...my son loves barbs, it could even be a rebuild of his dude

[Cannotthink]

The feat would work with the Berserker Strength ACF as it explicitly allows any effect that happens during a rage to happen while the feature is active. The only downside is being stuck in a quantum state of berserking and not berserking due to the extra Con.

[AriasDerros]

So if you're a whirling frenzy or ferocity barbarian, you can't use those ACFs by RAW to qualify for any PrC that requires rage?

Technically true, though there are a few that you can with some of the ACF's (Frenzied Berserker). Most DM's would allow it though. Most DM's would also let you take rage feats, even with the ACF's that don't specifically allow you to. However, my point above is that these are house-rules based on BLATANT RAI, and the adjustment of +2 con, not +6, is the same RAI.

So RAW, it does not work. RAI, it would be fixed as it is allowed.

To quote Caelic

[weenog]

The feat would work with the Berserker Strength ACF as it explicitly allows any effect that happens during a rage to happen while the feature is active. The only downside is being stuck in a quantum state of berserking and not berserking due to the extra Con.

True, any effect that would normally apply only during your rage does apply when berserker strength is active, but because berserker strength is not rage (and unlike Whirling Frenzy, is not considered identical to barbarian rage for all purposes not specified), you need to have an actual rage ability from somewhere else to qualify for most rage things (ettercap berserker, for example, has "ability to rage" in its prerequisites).  Half-orc paragon 3/barbarian X or something.

[Cannotthink]

An actual rage ability is necessary, I don't deny that. There plenty of easy ways of getting a rage, though.

The Proto-Creature and Broodguard templates both give rage for a +0 LA. Well, the latter definitely gives you a rage. The former provides rage, but requires racial hitdice to actually use it. Either way, it's a real rage for free (at some int and cha penalty; but you're raging to hit stuff, not charm).

Druidic avenger gets rage in one level. Dragon Magazine gives a Raging Cleric and a Raging Monk, which also give rage in one level.

[Lycanthromancer]

RAAAAAAAAAEG!

[AriasDerros]

RAAAAAAAAAEG!

NEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRDDDDDSSSSSSSS are RAAAAAAAAAEGGIIIIINGGGGG about RAAAAAAAAAEG!

[SorO_Lost]

To quote Caelic

That is so sigable and probably my next one soon.

[Nytemare3701]

Beat you to it.

[Midnight_v]

  The feat grants those bonuses while raging, not while using ACFs that replace rage. 

Well Whirling Frenzy at least calls itself a "variant form of rage", talks about entering a rage, and says that it "is otherwise identical to the standard barbarian rage in all other ways."   Qualifying for (and activating) rage-related feats and prestige classes is not specified as something it won't do, so for that purpose it works identically to a rage, which qualifies for and activates those things.

Berserker Strength, not so much.

Relavant underlined and bolded...
Hmph.. Well It clearly does work with whirling frezny, at least raw. I think any interpretation that variant rages don't work with rage feats etc overall is pretty poor on behalf of the advocate. Moslty because, the poor editing of some of those acf's mean you can't EVER take a rage feat if you use ferocity or whathave you, which is likely ISN'T the rule as intended but, of course people will argue it with you sometimes still.
So strictly speaking... enjoy your extra attack and +6 con, but not your ferocity and +6 con. Also, as always, consider rolling some druid optimization instead, I hear they're pretty good for when people seem to posses ignorant ideas about D&D...

[Jackinthegreen]

Stack the classes and such that give Rage, then use a different Alternate Rage Feature on each one?

So far I see:
Half-orc Paragon
Barbarian
Cleric
Druidic Avenger
Broodguard
Rage Monk
etc.

Different ARF's are:
Ferocity (Cityscape)
Berserker Strength (PHB2)
Whirling Frenzy (UA)

And I think I'm missing several of them.  Still, it's definitely possible even without Half-orc Paragon to get multiple kinds of Rage.  Note that all of them increase Strength, so we could probably see a build getting up into the 60's and higher.  For even more shits and giggles add the Feral, Half-Minotaur, and Mineral Warrior templates (and buy them off of course).

[AriasDerros]

If we're going that far, I would include the totem rage variants out of CC too.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

This is so against RAI, I don't know whether to be giddy or sickened