Author Topic: Build help!  (Read 4796 times)

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KolyaMollari

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Build help!
« on: October 11, 2011, 11:23:32 AM »
My group has decided to play DnD 3.5 for the first time in 5 years, and my DM has an idea for a "plot device" character that he would like me to play. The best build concept that I can come up with for what he wants is Scout 4 / Ranger 11 / Tempest 5. The DM wants a character that is a run in / hit / run off character that uses a sword and a revolver (he created the revolver based on an autoloader crossbow with six bullets in the chamber. This allows 6 shots before reload is needed d6 damage), and the character is not allowed to use magic or religious based spells (removing the CC domain dip that I keep reading about).

The campaign is based on a group of criminals (the remainder of the party) being broken out of prison by a more experienced criminal (me), and are on the run from a corrupt politician out to use them as a scapegoat for the assassination of the King.

Any suggestions on order of the character levels? Should I drop tempest and just go twf swift hunter, is there a better prestige class that i should look at? suggestions on feats? (sorry as I said it's been YEARS since I touched 3.5)

Thank you!
 

KolyaMollari

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Re: Build help!
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2011, 11:29:18 AM »
Also we are houseruling that feats that are for arrows will also count as bullets
Thanks again!

weenog

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Re: Build help!
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2011, 11:30:21 AM »
Oh god.

Recommend you ask the DM to handle his own NPC and let you play yours.  He'll take it less personally if any horrible ideas being corrected aren't his own creations.

Oh, and no matter how many Salvatore books the group has correctively read, TWF + Spring Attack is a stupid idea that doesn't work.
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Scrollreader

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Re: Build help!
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2011, 11:38:40 AM »
Look into the hand crossbow feats, either straight up, or with an affinity weapon, if needed.  Is about all I can recommend.  Maybe the old swift hunter build with greater/improved manyshot (I can never remember which, but it's the one in the xph and srd, not complete warrior.)

Rebel7284

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Re: Build help!
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2011, 11:40:17 AM »
Starting level?

Raptoran + Improved Flyby attack can be useful to enable skirmishing tactics.

Factotum 8/Swordsage X can be powerful with the extra actions it gives.  It does get a few spell like abilities, but eh? the flavor is good!

edit: Hell, even plain Swordsage can be a fun ninja type character to play. :)
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

KolyaMollari

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Re: Build help!
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2011, 11:54:25 AM »
He will be human lvl 6 (rest of the party starts at 5). The flavor of those classes sounds purdy sweet, but doesn't fit the character in mind. I was thinking keep him ranged most of the time, but be able to use tumble and a higher AC to weave through melee when needed.

weenog

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Re: Build help!
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2011, 11:59:24 AM »
Bard/Warblade with significant inspire courage optimization, Song of the White Raven, and mainly tiger claw maneuvers might work, if you're meaning to switch back and forth rather than try to do both at once.
"We managed to make an NPC puke an undead monster."
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KolyaMollari

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Re: Build help!
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2011, 12:12:27 PM »
@weenog: does that build require casting?

KolyaMollari

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Re: Build help!
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2011, 12:15:50 PM »
is there a viable way to use the manyshot progression, and still gain some melee oriented feats? (spelless rangers get bonus feats if i read correctly)

nightshade

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Re: Build help!
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2011, 01:56:31 PM »
is there a viable way to use the manyshot progression, and still gain some melee oriented feats? (spelless rangers get bonus feats if i read correctly)

Flaws allowed? How much gold? Point buy?

Rebel7284

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Re: Build help!
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2011, 02:00:08 PM »
is there a viable way to use the manyshot progression, and still gain some melee oriented feats? (spelless rangers get bonus feats if i read correctly)

As manyshot is a standard action, Factotums excel at it.
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

KolyaMollari

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Re: Build help!
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2011, 02:22:00 PM »
is there a viable way to use the manyshot progression, and still gain some melee oriented feats? (spelless rangers get bonus feats if i read correctly)

Flaws allowed? How much gold? Point buy?

Haven't looked into flaws
Off the top of my head (char sheet is at home) he has
18
16
12
14
11

KolyaMollari

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Re: Build help!
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2011, 02:40:21 PM »
is there a viable way to use the manyshot progression, and still gain some melee oriented feats? (spelless rangers get bonus feats if i read correctly)

As manyshot is a standard action, Factotums excel at it.

I just checked out the factotems handbook (by Dictum Mortuum here on brilliantgameologists) and from what I can tell it's a knowledge buffer of sorts. Would you be able to tell me how this class synergizes with Swift hunters?

Rebel7284

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Re: Build help!
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2011, 03:24:19 PM »
The power behind Factorums is their insane flexibility with INT to almost everything and, at level 8, taking extra standard actions.

While knowledges are good skills to abuse with knowledge devotion, this is just the tip of the iceberg.  They work best with Font of Inspiration feat found in a web article.

1) Int to attack and damage is useful as, especially at early levels, you end up actually hitting and dealing non-trivial damage and at later levels, you can use with effects like manyshot to nullify all penalties while getting extra attacks.
2) Int to AC and saves allows you a few turns of being face to face with the big, mean monster without dying.
3) Int to DEX and STR based checks means you have a bonus to initiative, trip checks, escape artist checks, move silently etc.  All of these you can use offensively or defensively.
4) Factotum level to each skill 1/day likely means that you succeed on that crucial skill check.  Bluff/Disguise/Jump/Disable Device.
5) You can take obscure skills like autohypnosis and Iajitsu focus.
6) At 8th level, you can emulate spring attack without any feat expenditure a few time per encounter.  Move action to move to opponent, standard to attack, use the other standard action to move away.
7) Any standard action attack you can use twice in a turn.  Manyshot is fun with this as are maneuvers as are the few low level spells you can cast (True Strike, etc.)

And remember, the inspiration points recharge every encounter.

Because of the flexibility, they end up being the ultimate ninjas.  They can play offense in several ways, defense, skirmish, infiltration (just add factotum level to disguise check or INT+Factotum level to hide and move silently), battlefield control with tripping, party face by adding Factotum level to Bluff/Diplomacy 1/day, even minor healing!  About the only thing they can't do is cast high level spells at the same rate at wizards.  Although they DO get up to one 7th level spell if you take them to 20.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 03:30:43 PM by Rebel7284 »
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

Caelic

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Re: Build help!
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2011, 06:48:27 PM »
is there a viable way to use the manyshot progression, and still gain some melee oriented feats? (spelless rangers get bonus feats if i read correctly)


Are you sure you want Manyshot?  Multishot works so much better for a scout.

KolyaMollari

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Re: Build help!
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2011, 07:09:53 PM »
@Caelic; Psionic multi shot?

KolyaMollari

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Re: Build help!
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2011, 07:14:58 PM »
@Rebel; Wow! Thanks for the info drop. I might have to convince the dm to rethink some of the restrictions on magic.

Rebel7284

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Re: Build help!
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2011, 07:44:42 PM »
@Rebel; Wow! Thanks for the info drop. I might have to convince the dm to rethink some of the restrictions on magic.

If it helps, Factotum spells are technically not spells, they're spell-like abilities. :P
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

Mixster

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Re: Build help!
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2011, 07:49:55 PM »
You could take the cloistered cleric level dip without ever using the spells from it.
Travel Devotion + Knowledge Devotion + One domain (which could grant improved initiative or freedom of movement for a short period of time each day) is pretty much worth a level.

With that you could go Ranger/Scout with swift hunter and stay around Tier 3-4 in power level. You don't need to TWF, if you are close enough to hit people with your sword, do that, if not, use your pistol. Preferable you'd need some way of using that sword two-handed when closing, but if not, no biggie, since your damage is coming from precision damage.

Do remember to strangle your DM if he then decides to swamp you with Oozes and Undead after forcing you to play a precision damage based build.

If you want to go higher than that, Inspire Courage Bard/Warblade is a decent build for a TWF'er.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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weenog

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Re: Build help!
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2011, 08:13:19 PM »
@weenog: does that build require casting?

Boosting the shit out of your inspire courage does involve some spellcasting, but really, doing anything well does involve some spellcasting.  Ranger's a spellcaster, btw.  A weaker form of inspire courage boosting could be done with minimal magic (obviously you're going to need some, IC itself is magic) if you want.

The thing about inspire courage is it just tacks damage onto your weapon-based attacks regardless of their nature, so you don't wind up tripping over one-handed, two-handed, ranged or melee, precision or non.  You shoot your dinky little hand crossbow? Inspire courage is there.  Attack with a blade you're only wielding one-handed because your other hand is full of crossbow? Inspire courage is still there. The mangy cat you won in a card game last night gets involved in a fight?  Claws and bites are weapons, and inspire courage is there.  If you're stuck with a DM's pet concept that really doesn't know where the heck it's going, inspire courage might be your most reliable damage source for it.

Warblade's what the fighter should've been, pretty much, and it can stack with your bard level to determine your inspire courage output.  White Raven maneuvers it has access to are good for cooperating with other characters in battle (like the lower-level criminals you're breaking out).  The Tiger Claw maneuvers I mentioned before are mainly for knife fighters and such, people with weenie weapons who want to bounce around killing things anyway.  Them plus inspire courage you might manage to make a single shortsword or the like seem pretty menacing.
"We managed to make an NPC puke an undead monster."
"That sounds like a victory to me."