Author Topic: Vow of Poverty  (Read 20387 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

X-Codes

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3941
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #80 on: October 01, 2011, 07:17:18 PM »
I agree with the Exalted feats sucking so much shit that there's no build that even really wants 11 of them.  It's possible that someone might want 11 Vile feats, but I'm not holding my breath for that, either.

Lycanthromancer

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4003
    • Email
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #81 on: October 01, 2011, 07:26:20 PM »
I agree with the Exalted feats sucking so much shit that there's no build that even really wants 11 of them.  It's possible that someone might want 11 Vile feats, but I'm not holding my breath for that, either.
I'd just DCFS them all, myself.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

ImperatorK

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 500
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #82 on: October 01, 2011, 07:30:38 PM »
What's DCFS?
"I'm done thinking for today! It's caused me enough trouble!"
"Take less damage to avoid being killed."
"In the arena of logic, I fight unarmed."


[spoiler]
Quote from: Lateral
Or you could just be a cleric of an ideal. Like, physics and say that the domain choices reflect potential and kinetic energy.

 Plus, where other clerics say "For Pelor," "For Nerull," or "For Crom?" You get to say, "FOR SCIENCE!" *fanfare*

About me:
Quote from: dark_samuari
I know your game, you just want a magical Amazon.com to knock off those good ol' honest magic shops run by polite, old wizards!
Use Iron Heart Surge on the sun. That'll teach him to use fluff as RAW.

Damn you! You totally ruined my build that was all about getting epic far shot early and throwing my enemies into the sun!
[/spoiler]

Lycanthromancer

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4003
    • Email
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #83 on: October 01, 2011, 07:36:02 PM »
What's DCFS?
Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle.

Use the Embrace/Shun the Dark Chaos spells to swap any feat for any other feat. They're [Chaotic] but not [Evil], so they're perfectly fine for an exalted character, and they only cost a pittance of XP.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

X-Codes

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3941
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #84 on: October 01, 2011, 07:38:46 PM »
What's DCFS?
Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle.

Use the Embrace/Shun the Dark Chaos spells to swap any feat for any other feat. They're [Chaotic] but not [Evil], so they're perfectly fine for an exalted character, and they only cost a pittance of XP.
Yeah, that's how my VoP wizard does... anything.

ImperatorK

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 500
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #85 on: October 01, 2011, 07:43:51 PM »
High level...
"I'm done thinking for today! It's caused me enough trouble!"
"Take less damage to avoid being killed."
"In the arena of logic, I fight unarmed."


[spoiler]
Quote from: Lateral
Or you could just be a cleric of an ideal. Like, physics and say that the domain choices reflect potential and kinetic energy.

 Plus, where other clerics say "For Pelor," "For Nerull," or "For Crom?" You get to say, "FOR SCIENCE!" *fanfare*

About me:
Quote from: dark_samuari
I know your game, you just want a magical Amazon.com to knock off those good ol' honest magic shops run by polite, old wizards!
Use Iron Heart Surge on the sun. That'll teach him to use fluff as RAW.

Damn you! You totally ruined my build that was all about getting epic far shot early and throwing my enemies into the sun!
[/spoiler]

Lycanthromancer

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4003
    • Email
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #86 on: October 01, 2011, 07:53:43 PM »
High level...
Or if you have cash for scrolls...

Oh, wait...
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

ImperatorK

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 500
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #87 on: October 01, 2011, 08:32:51 PM »
Yup.
"I'm done thinking for today! It's caused me enough trouble!"
"Take less damage to avoid being killed."
"In the arena of logic, I fight unarmed."


[spoiler]
Quote from: Lateral
Or you could just be a cleric of an ideal. Like, physics and say that the domain choices reflect potential and kinetic energy.

 Plus, where other clerics say "For Pelor," "For Nerull," or "For Crom?" You get to say, "FOR SCIENCE!" *fanfare*

About me:
Quote from: dark_samuari
I know your game, you just want a magical Amazon.com to knock off those good ol' honest magic shops run by polite, old wizards!
Use Iron Heart Surge on the sun. That'll teach him to use fluff as RAW.

Damn you! You totally ruined my build that was all about getting epic far shot early and throwing my enemies into the sun!
[/spoiler]

Foxwander

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 48
    • Email
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #88 on: October 01, 2011, 09:16:41 PM »
Just read thru the whole thread, and while the sidetrack into which class gets the most from VoP was amusing I have to point out that, by RAW, both clerics and and skillmonkeys are actually completely screwed by VoP.  By RAW VoP means no holy symbol and no thieves' tools, which means...

No holy symbol = no divine focus spells and not turn/rebuke undead.
A sampling of cleric spells which require a divine focus includes pretty much everything that puts the "C" in "CoDzilla."  Almost all clerical buffs need a holy symbol to cast, including the oft DMM persisted Divine Power.  Speaking of DMM (or any similar divine feat), since it "takes the energy from turning or rebuking undead and uses it to apply a metamagic feat" AND turning/rebuking comes from "channeling the power of his faith through his holy (or unholy) symbol" without the symbol to power turn/rebuke attempts you probably can't use those divine feats either.  Without buffs or the DMM persist to awesomize them a VoP cleric would kinda suck.

No tools = no Disable Device or Open Lock skill use.
The thieves' tool description says- "This kit contains the tools you need to use the Disable Device and Open Lock skills. Without these tools, you must improvise tools...  So, baring feats or skill tricks, these skills REQUIRE tools.  VoP says you "must not own or use any material possessions, with the following exceptions..."  Thieves' tools are not in the list of exceptions.  A skillmonkey that can't handle traps and looks is just a crappy fighter.
Standing in uffish thought.

Mooncrow

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #89 on: October 01, 2011, 09:25:11 PM »

No tools = no Disable Device or Open Lock skill use.
The thieves' tool description says- "This kit contains the tools you need to use the Disable Device and Open Lock skills. Without these tools, you must improvise tools...  So, baring feats or skill tricks, these skills REQUIRE tools.  VoP says you "must not own or use any material possessions, with the following exceptions..."  Thieves' tools are not in the list of exceptions.  A skillmonkey that can't handle traps and looks is just a crappy fighter.

Improvised tools = a -2 on the roll, and you can basically improvise them out of anything.

(not that I'm advocating VoP for skillmonkeys :p  But you can do it)

JaronK

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4039
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #90 on: October 01, 2011, 09:47:45 PM »
Yeah, but the penalties are too much when what you need are bonuses to be any good at dealing with traps and the like.

JaronK

Kajhera

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1167
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #91 on: October 01, 2011, 10:10:32 PM »
Vow of Poverty honestly made perfect sense when I wanted to play a somewhat less than sane naked druid who thought she was a dinosaur.

sirpercival

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 593
    • Email
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #92 on: October 01, 2011, 10:12:43 PM »
Vow of Poverty honestly made perfect sense when I wanted to play a somewhat less than sane naked druid who thought she was a dinosaur.

Not in fluff... VoP =/= Schizophrenia.
Burn all the microfiche!  Firebomb all the 8-tracks!

I'm not just a druid -- I'm a singing, dancing, Broadway druid.

[spoiler]
Quote from: PhaedrusXY
"You... saved me? So I was dismantled? I... thank you, then. I will not incinerate you."

There's only one character concept worth having, and that's the one you've thrown darts at.
[/spoiler]

Kajhera

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1167
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #93 on: October 01, 2011, 10:16:40 PM »
Vow of Poverty honestly made perfect sense when I wanted to play a somewhat less than sane naked druid who thought she was a dinosaur.

Not in fluff... VoP =/= Schizophrenia.

They're not incompatible. She was also a very nice person.

Bauglir

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2346
  • TriOptimum
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #94 on: October 01, 2011, 11:03:47 PM »
VoP clerics find Worldly Focus (Faiths of Eberron) to be mandatory. Interesting! Only the Sovereign Host has VoP clerics.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

SorO_Lost

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2355
  • I'll kill you before you're born.
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #95 on: October 01, 2011, 11:55:39 PM »
Just read thru the whole thread, and while the sidetrack into which class gets the most from VoP was amusing I have to point out that, by RAW, both clerics and and skillmonkeys are actually completely screwed by VoP.  By RAW VoP means no holy symbol and no thieves' tools, which means...
You can borrow potions, which are magical, you can beg for expensive spell components and own normal ones (ie <= 1 gp). I'm sure you can beg for masterwork tools and expensive holy symbols and use normal ones just fine. If you want to be a RAW dick about it, be creative and whittle your own or tattoo it on your skin Avatar Aang style before your 7th birthday and long before taking your vow or idk, just take Worldly FocusEB:FoE as Bauglir mentioned.

Also you can get around owning tools for Open Lock / Disable Device with a -2 penalty, it isn't ideal but it is possible.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

weenog

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1706
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #96 on: October 02, 2011, 12:04:52 AM »
Just read thru the whole thread, and while the sidetrack into which class gets the most from VoP was amusing I have to point out that, by RAW, both clerics and and skillmonkeys are actually completely screwed by VoP.  By RAW VoP means no holy symbol and no thieves' tools, which means...
You can borrow potions, which are magical, you can beg for expensive spell components and own normal ones (ie <= 1 gp). I'm sure you can beg for masterwork tools and expensive holy symbols and use normal ones just fine. If you want to be a RAW dick about it, be creative and whittle your own or tattoo it on your skin Avatar Aang style before your 7th birthday and long before taking your vow or idk, just take Worldly FocusEB:FoE as Bauglir mentioned.

Also you can get around owning tools for Open Lock / Disable Device with a -2 penalty, it isn't ideal but it is possible.

lulz

Vow of Poverty means never having to pay for or carry your own stuff.
"We managed to make an NPC puke an undead monster."
"That sounds like a victory to me."

X-Codes

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3941
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #97 on: October 02, 2011, 12:07:57 AM »
Just read thru the whole thread, and while the sidetrack into which class gets the most from VoP was amusing I have to point out that, by RAW, both clerics and and skillmonkeys are actually completely screwed by VoP.  By RAW VoP means no holy symbol and no thieves' tools, which means...
You can borrow potions, which are magical, you can beg for expensive spell components and own normal ones (ie <= 1 gp). I'm sure you can beg for masterwork tools and expensive holy symbols and use normal ones just fine. If you want to be a RAW dick about it, be creative and whittle your own or tattoo it on your skin Avatar Aang style before your 7th birthday and long before taking your vow or idk, just take Worldly FocusEB:FoE as Bauglir mentioned.

Also you can get around owning tools for Open Lock / Disable Device with a -2 penalty, it isn't ideal but it is possible.

lulz

Vow of Poverty means never having to pay for or carry your own stuff.
VoP: You're not just a bum, you're a holy bum.

weenog

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1706
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #98 on: October 02, 2011, 12:14:50 AM »
Do you take the Dex damage from touch of golden ice when you smack the guy upside his fool head for trying to bum his 20th cigarette that day?
"We managed to make an NPC puke an undead monster."
"That sounds like a victory to me."

Foxwander

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 48
    • Email
Re: Vow of Poverty
« Reply #99 on: October 02, 2011, 02:00:54 AM »
Leadership is a mandatory feat for VoP characters so they can get a lackey to follow them around with a bag of holding full of stuff for them to "borrow" as needed.  :D

Just read thru the whole thread, and while the sidetrack into which class gets the most from VoP was amusing I have to point out that, by RAW, both clerics and and skillmonkeys are actually completely screwed by VoP.  By RAW VoP means no holy symbol and no thieves' tools, which means...
You can borrow potions, which are magical, you can beg for expensive spell components and own normal ones (ie <= 1 gp). I'm sure you can beg for masterwork tools and expensive holy symbols and use normal ones just fine. If you want to be a RAW dick about it, be creative and whittle your own or tattoo it on your skin Avatar Aang style before your 7th birthday and long before taking your vow or idk, just take Worldly FocusEB:FoE as Bauglir mentioned.

Also you can get around owning tools for Open Lock / Disable Device with a -2 penalty, it isn't ideal but it is possible.

I didn't say it made any sense, just that thems the rules.  I certainly wouldn't be such a dick about it in my campaign (I think any reasonable possession that cost less the 1 gold should be fine).  But technically you can't "borrow" anything!  You can drink the potion a friend gives right away, but you can't borrow it for later- even if later is just 2 rounds later in the fight.  You can't hold and personally use a magic item AT ALL.  By RAW (and yes, you'd have to be a complete dick of a DM to rule it this way) it says even wearing a magic cloak for a single round breaks the vow.

As for improvised tools, they're still "material possessions" that you're not allowed to "own or use".  Does it make any sense that you can't pick up a shard of metal to pick a lock with but you can carry a heavy crossbow and all the bolts you can fit in your food sack? Hell no!  But that's how the text of the feat is written.
Standing in uffish thought.