Author Topic: Scuplt Spell and Mastery of Shaping?  (Read 5599 times)

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StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Scuplt Spell and Mastery of Shaping?
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2011, 12:04:53 PM »
Are you guys missing the fact that he has the books for Uncanny Forethought? Take this. No question.
This feat is the best feat ever printed for a Wizard, so it's not a real question.

Wow, that feat's amazing!  I do have one question, though.  Have it at game start, or wait for level 18?  Reason I ask is... Spell Focus x2 and Greater Spell Focus (Abj), as well as Skill Focus are all required for my prestige classes.  I canot use the Wiz bonus feat for any of those, nor Uncanny Forethought.  The above feats eat up 4 of my 6 general feats.  UF would need to also go there.  I WANT Flyby Attack so I can put up a Vilot and/or Indigo wall ward and just skirmish back and forth through it, seems like a nice tactic...  So, I'd need to take Spell Mastery as my bonus feat at 5.  I'd start the game with NO metamagic feats at all, and I'd be at CL -2 and full round action to use anything above spell level 3.  Maybe that's not so bad, but if I just waited to Wiz 10 / ECL 18, I could pick up Spell Mastery and UF all in one go and apply it to any spells I want.  Which do you think is better?  Int at level 5, assuming I had a +2 hat, would have been 23, current int is 30.  So I do like the idea of 10 slots to spont. cast per day... :)

CantripN

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Re: Scuplt Spell and Mastery of Shaping?
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2011, 12:17:35 PM »
Up to you. Me, I'd take it ASAP, and if needed, used Retraining to change the order later, so it's slightly more powerful.

There's no ability more useful to a Wizard than Spontaneity, and this is it.

I suppose there's no chance of you getting access to Master Specialist from CM, eh? That would help a lot with the feats, giving you 2 of them for free.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 12:19:41 PM by CantripN »
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StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Scuplt Spell and Mastery of Shaping?
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2011, 12:22:15 PM »
Well, I notice spell mastery just says spells you know, not ones you can cast.  So maybe I could get away with some higher level spells at 5th.  Not that many or necessarily 9th level, though...  See, if I'm going to take Spell Mastery, I have one humble requirement for the feat to not feel like a total waste: It leaves me with the tools to get me spellbook back!  With the greatest of ease!

So, my thinking is, my Spell Mastery Wish List needs to include: Shades (for a freebie Instant Summons on the spellbook, in case I also have no money), Discern Location, Greater Scrying, Plane Shift, and Greater Teleport.

If you have any suggestions that can be done on a lower (spell level) budget, please let me know.  It is probably best to start the game with it regardless, though.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 12:25:24 PM by StreamOfTheSky »

CantripN

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Re: Scuplt Spell and Mastery of Shaping?
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2011, 12:44:00 PM »
Dragoneye Rune (Dragon Magic, Sor/Wiz 2 - no need to Master it, though) helps with that a lot. And as far as I know, Teleport does allow you to say "I want to appear 5256 feet that way"...

Think of spells that wouldn't be as good if you had to lose 2 CL, or spend an extra Move Action to cast. For example, Dimension Door (Greater) wouldn't be nearly as good if not Mastered, denying you the option to teleport the round you cast it.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 12:48:36 PM by CantripN »
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.

kremti

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Re: Scuplt Spell and Mastery of Shaping?
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2011, 12:55:24 PM »
I agree that Uncanny Forethought is the choice pick with that book list...

Remember the feat lets you do other things.  Note that spells that takes longer to cast, can be cast with this feat for 1 round/1 standard action.  Identify taking 1 hours to cast?  Not anymore.  Clairvoyance also falls in this category.  So yeah, I strongly suggest getting the feat from the start...play with it for a while, and see if you can
A. Retrain for a slight powerup
B. Maybe you like it so much that you want to take 2nd Spell Mastery at level 18...

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SneeR

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Re: Scuplt Spell and Mastery of Shaping?
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2011, 02:15:42 PM »
What is Uncanny Forethought from?
The answer to everything:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
SneeR
[spoiler]
I don't know if the designers meant you to take Skill Focus for every feat.
Sounds a little OP.

The monk is clearly the best class, no need to optimize here. What you are doing is overkill.

It's like people who have no idea what a turn signal is. They ruin it for everyone else.
When another driver brandishes a holy symbol and begins glowing with divine light, seek cover or get spattered with zombie brains. I do not see what is so complicated about this.
[/spoiler]

kremti

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Re: Scuplt Spell and Mastery of Shaping?
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2011, 02:28:17 PM »
What is Uncanny Forethought from?
Exemplars of Evil

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SneeR

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Re: Scuplt Spell and Mastery of Shaping?
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2011, 02:43:33 PM »
What is Uncanny Forethought from?
Exemplars of Evil

-K
HOLY CRAP! WHO THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA FOR WIZARDS!? It's like they said, "Well, I'm not sure wizards can do quite everything... Why don't we let them take two feats to fully consume and obviate the sorcerer class?"
The answer to everything:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
SneeR
[spoiler]
I don't know if the designers meant you to take Skill Focus for every feat.
Sounds a little OP.

The monk is clearly the best class, no need to optimize here. What you are doing is overkill.

It's like people who have no idea what a turn signal is. They ruin it for everyone else.
When another driver brandishes a holy symbol and begins glowing with divine light, seek cover or get spattered with zombie brains. I do not see what is so complicated about this.
[/spoiler]

StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Scuplt Spell and Mastery of Shaping?
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2011, 03:12:55 PM »
Well, for what it's worth, it at least seems like it would be difficult to apply metamagic feats to any non-mastered spells...  :)

But yeah, it's amazing.  Just need to find out if the DM will approve it...

StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Scuplt Spell and Mastery of Shaping?
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2011, 02:14:37 AM »
Waiting for a response on Uncanny Forethought.  All this talk of Chain Spell and the like gave me a random idea, though.  Wouldn't be able to do it this game, and not sure I'd try it in any real game...  But what about this combo?

Master Specialist (Abjuration) Major Esoterica - Personal and emanation abjurations become touch range 3/day
Reach Spell Archmage High Arcana - Turn touch spells into 30 ft ranged spells
Chain Spell - Turn a targeted spell w/ range > touch into multitarget
Mastery of Shaping High Arcana - To put holes in area spells.

= Small army of (buffed before doing this) killing machines all packing AMFs with a hole in the center.  :lmao
Pop Chained Fly and some other stuff on before the AMF, and enjoy.

CantripN

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Re: Scuplt Spell and Mastery of Shaping?
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2011, 05:38:29 AM »
2 problems:
a) Chain Spell doesn't technically work on Ranged Touch spells, since they lack a Target entry. You'd need Split Ray for more targets, and that's not as efficient. The rules aren't 100% clear, though, so your DM may allow the combo.
b)AMF no longer blocks line of effect. That means quite simply, that if your ally is excluded from the AMF, it can get attacked just fine with any spell.

It's much more useful to just dump said Ranged Touch AMF on an enemy spellcaster and laugh.
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.

bernsten69

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Re: Scuplt Spell and Mastery of Shaping?
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2011, 06:45:05 AM »
A few suggestions:

1. READ THE SPELLS IN THE PHBII.  They are AMAZING!  They are NOT listed in the Spell Compendium and many people do not know about them.  Pay special attention to spells that are immediate actions (can occur during other people's turns).  Certain spells I like: Chain Dispell (8th level spell, max CL 25, and 1 target/level) Greater Celerity (as an immediate action, take a full round action and then you are dazed for the next round.

A little more on Greater Celerity - short of wish/timestop, this is perhaps the best wizard spell in the game.  It enables you to prevent things from happening.  The BBEG about to cut the head off of the princess?  During his turn, as the sword starts to descend on her neck, you cast celerity.  You then Stroll over, cast a prismatic sphere around her (or one of your veils), spend the next round safely inside, then explain to her what is going on and take out the BBEG.  Is the God you are fighting about to remove you from existence with mass life and death? (your foresight warns you) you cast Greater Celerity and dimension hop out of his range.  Is the [thing that cannot happen] about to happen on somebody else's initiative?  Cast Greater Celerity and stop it. 

2.  I know you want flyby attack to attempt to use your veils for cover.  Don't.  It will only encourage your enemies to find ways to neutralize your veils and/or focus on you.  (e.g., a readied action to grab you when you pop through to the other side) Use that feat to be better at offense, or to better specialize at something.  A better feat, if you have access to the Complete Adventurer, which would allow you to do the same thing is: Mobile Spellcasting.   With a concentration check DC = 20 + spell level, you can move AND cast as a standard action.  In other words, since you can take a move action and a standard action each round, with this feat you can: 1. Move to the other side of your veil, 2. cast your spell, and the 3. move back behind your veil.  Being able to perform your 'attack' action and to take a double move is rather rare in 3.5, and it should allow you to put some distance between you and the guys with the swords.

Combine Mobile Spellcasting with Celerity and you have control of the battlefield.

3. If you want to be VERY effective at one thing, spend your feats on it.  For example, choose a spell (e.g., Orb of Force), take it as your arcane thesis, take a metamagic feat that you want to effect it with (Twin Spell & Quicken spell), take Residual Magic (my favorite feat) and have at it: Round 1: You cast a twined orb of force (level 7 spell) and a quickened orb of force (level 7 Spell), Round 2: You cast a twined orb of force (level 4 spell, metamagic free from residual magic) and another quickened orb of force (level 7 spell).  You've now done, in 2 rounds, 60d6 damage with no save.

A quick word on Residual Magic.  It is Amazing.  It allows you to apply a metamagic feat to a spell for free if you cast that same spell modified by the metamagic feat last round.  I like to do a few combos with this: Use arcane thesis to reduce the meta magic cost, use metamagic school focus (not sure if that is what it is called)to reduce it by 1 further 3 times per day.  Then, use residual magic to allow you to get 2 uses from each metamagic reduction.  EG: You have spell focus Abjuration, metamagic school focus abjuration, repeat spell, residual magic and arcane thesis: Chain dispell.  You memorize a repeat spell Chain Dispell in your 9th level slot and a standard chain dispell in your 8th level slot.  Round 1: you cast a repeating chain dispell.  Round 2: your repeating dispell goes off, then you cast another chain dispell and automatically apply repeat spell through residual magic, Round 3: your second repeating dispell goes off and you can take a standard action.  This combo has allowed you to cast 4 8th level spells for an 8th and a 9th level slot. 

Other uses of Residual Magic: Abusing Sudden Maximize/empower/quicken. Round 1: You cast a sudden maximized Meteor Swarm, Round 2: you cast another Meteor Swarm and Maximize it for free.

Other interesting combos are to use Arcane thesis to add a bunch of +1 spell slot adjustments to your thesis spell for free:

EG, you choose Fireball and take Sculpt spell, still spell, silent spell, and enlarge spell.  From now on, all of your fireballs, without level adjustment, are stilled, silented, sculpted and enlarged. 

Other interesting metamagic combos: using arcane thesis for fireball, take explosive spell and widen spell.  For a 6th level spell slot, you get a double sized fireball that pushes the targets to the edge, possibly knocks them down, and does extra damage to them.  (Explosive spell is GREAT!)

If you just want to deal uber damage: try these feats: Energy Admixture or Twin spell + arcane thesis + Metamagic School Focus =  a ton of damage.  EG: 8th level Delayed blast fireballs that deal 40d6 damage. 

There is also a Scorching ray build, where you basically focus on casting scorching ray with a ton of metamagic feats added onto it to make it deal uber damage to a single target. 

Also, Split ray is a really nice feat - +2 spell slots to double the effect of a ray spell. 

X-Codes

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Re: Scuplt Spell and Mastery of Shaping?
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2011, 01:08:55 PM »
*snip*
You're new here, so this post is excusable.

With the lack of timing rules, Celerity is indeed such a blatantly overpowered spell that most of us have something of a gentleman's agreement to not bring it up or use it in our games.  Also, the OP already stated that he's restricted to the PHB for spells, and honestly that's good enough.

Mobile Spellcasting is an alright feat, but compared to Flyby Attack it's just another thing that can potentially go wrong when casting a spell, so keep that in mind.  I would say that nether is strictly better than the other (also, Mobile Spellcasting isn't in the PHB).

Finally, blasting is actually an extremely inefficient strategy.  Those 6 orbs of force you just fired, for example, will average 210 damage.  There are some monsters at level 14 (the probable minimum level to have 4 level 7 spell slots) that can actually survive that, assuming you even hit with them all.  On the other hand, hitting them with Waves of Exhaustion will halve their move speed, penalize their Strength and Dexterity, and disable their ability to charge (especially bad for creatures with Rakes) with no save just like those orbs of force.  What's more, if there are multiple enemies on the battlefield then it could potentially hit them all, instead of Orb of Force hitting a single target.

SneeR

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Re: Scuplt Spell and Mastery of Shaping?
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2011, 02:12:59 PM »
A few suggestions

Wow, you just put everything you had into that post, didn't you?

Where is Residual Magic from?
The answer to everything:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
SneeR
[spoiler]
I don't know if the designers meant you to take Skill Focus for every feat.
Sounds a little OP.

The monk is clearly the best class, no need to optimize here. What you are doing is overkill.

It's like people who have no idea what a turn signal is. They ruin it for everyone else.
When another driver brandishes a holy symbol and begins glowing with divine light, seek cover or get spattered with zombie brains. I do not see what is so complicated about this.
[/spoiler]

X-Codes

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Re: Scuplt Spell and Mastery of Shaping?
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2011, 02:36:50 PM »
A few suggestions

Wow, you just put everything you had into that post, didn't you?

Where is Residual Magic from?
Complete Mage.  It is an awesome feat, but not quite the way he uses it.

StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Scuplt Spell and Mastery of Shaping?
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2011, 10:18:16 PM »
DM is not allowing Uncanny Forethought, so back to the drawing board.  Also means no Spell Mastery, so I will probably make Wiz 5 Quicken Spell again unless someone has a better idea.

For the open feat, the top candidates seem to be sculpt spell (mainly to make grease and glitterdust more uber), chain spell, arcane mastery, and improved initiative.  Or possibly a familiar-boosting feat.  Thoughts?

CantripN

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Re: Scuplt Spell and Mastery of Shaping?
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2011, 10:43:40 PM »
All good choices. I'd go with Sculpt Spell or Chain Spell if you're into buffing with it. Arcane Mastery is only any good if you have several CL boosters, and your DM uses proper CR monsters.
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.