Author Topic: Small Questions and Future Errata  (Read 7666 times)

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oslecamo

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Re: Small Questions and Future Errata
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2011, 07:29:16 PM »
Personally, as a psicrystal takes a feat to access, I'd say it shouldn't have feats beyond the stock feat. You pay one feat and get 1 back per three levels? What kind of sense, RAI-wise, does that make?

I do agree with that.
In fairness, you need to spend a power known to get those feats. You're also restricted by the duration and limits of Feat Leech.

In fairness, you can get powers known from feats. Boosting your Wis to at least a bonus of +3 is cheap, and going nova is the name of the game for psions anyway.

Not to mention, again, some of those feats benefit you allright even if they're just in the psicrystal, like mindsight and leadership.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Small Questions and Future Errata
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2011, 07:34:43 PM »
I didn't use "nerf" as a negative term. WRT was too strong if not outright broken with the potential of chaining multiple turns in a single round. You weakened it to more sane levels. It's still a nerf, just a good and needed one.

K, so that was a misunderstanding on my part. Tone is really hard to translate onto the web.

Quote
And no, errata (official or not) isn't suposed to just make things work when they didn't, it's also a way of balancing something that already came out, pretty much how companies patch games. It was used like that in 3.0 (polymorph improved Con granting HP untill errata specifically forbid that) and it's still used like that in 4e.

I suppose I should state where I'm coming from with that: I have attempted to become a judge for MtG. Errata in Magic is meant to clarify and enable the cards to work as intended, not nerf it into unplayable levels (they originally did that, but stopped the practice years ago). While I feel that DnD errata can never be on a similar level as MtG errata, I do feel that nerfing/buffing should be avoided when possible (especially with the Tier 2s and up).


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Bozwevial

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Re: Small Questions and Future Errata
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2011, 07:38:38 PM »
If all you want is detection of other beings, Touchsight+Transdimensional Touchsight will do that easily enough. Granted, it won't tell you what type or Intelligence they have, but it's pretty damn good as a radar. Leadership is really something you could pick up anyway, so tacking that onto a psicrystal isn't saying much. For the same price as Psicrystal Affinity, you could take that or go Thrallherd and leach feats from your followers/cohorts/thralls.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Small Questions and Future Errata
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2011, 07:45:18 PM »
RE: Leadership on a Psicrystal.

Because of the restrictions on the Psicrystal's advancement, it's arguable that it cannot take Leadership (which has a prereq of Character Level 6th). I know I'm splitting hairs here, but that kind of abuse needs to be avoided.


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oslecamo

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Re: Small Questions and Future Errata
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2011, 10:23:22 AM »
If all you want is detection of other beings, Touchsight+Transdimensional Touchsight will do that easily enough. Granted, it won't tell you what type or Intelligence they have, but it's pretty damn good as a radar. Leadership is really something you could pick up anyway, so tacking that onto a psicrystal isn't saying much. For the same price as Psicrystal Affinity, you could take that or go Thrallherd and leach feats from your followers/cohorts/thralls.

What you're evading here, it's that the psicrystal with feats allows you to do all of those better, cheaper, or both. And then you still get the psicrystal itself on top of it!

Trallherd? Pick it if you want, then let your psicrystal  take leadership anyway for double cohort and extra followers. (and as already mentioned good luck leting your DM cherry-pick your followers and cohorts anyway).

Touchsight? Spare a power known, a metapsionic feat and PP with psicrystal.

Trallherd with touchsight? Psicrystal spares you a lot of trouble geting all the feats and powers.

And then you're still freaking comboing the psicrytal with metamorphosis and share pain and vigor and whatnot.


snakeman830

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Re: Small Questions and Future Errata
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2011, 11:37:09 AM »
Please explain to me the following:

How a Psicrystal is getting any more than 1 power known?

How a feat that explicitly requires DM permission for a PC to grab it is ever going to get onto a psicrystal instead.  For that matter, why couldn't an animal companion take it?

How are 99% of the feats out there going to benefit the Thrallherd when it can only make use of psionic/metapsionic feats (by spending a power known, which the Psicrystal can't replace until Epic), most of which the Psicrystal can't qualify for?  You keep pointing to Lifesight and Mindsight, but Mindsight RAW can't be taken by a Psicrystal as it lacks the Telepathy ability.
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veekie

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Re: Small Questions and Future Errata
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2011, 12:14:32 PM »
Doesn't matter. Even disregarding feat leech, a psicrystal IS already two feats in one(if not a very good second feat). you have a scout, communicator, spotter AND free Alertness. The rules as they are intended to be are clear. You do not buy half a dozen feats with one feat.
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Prime32

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Re: Small Questions and Future Errata
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2011, 11:05:03 AM »
RE: Leadership on a Psicrystal.

Because of the restrictions on the Psicrystal's advancement, it's arguable that it cannot take Leadership (which has a prereq of Character Level 6th). I know I'm splitting hairs here, but that kind of abuse needs to be avoided.
I think this is missing the forest for the trees. Just rule that only PCs can take Leadership.

And yeah, psicrystals with feats are fun but probably not what was intended. Dreamscarred Press already removed them (even before Psionics Unleashed, their alternate psicrystals explicitly did not get feats).
« Last Edit: September 24, 2011, 11:06:55 AM by Prime32 »
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The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Garryl

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Re: Small Questions and Future Errata
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2011, 01:38:57 PM »
Given their similarities, I would also cite the precedent of familiars not getting feats.
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EjoThims

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Re: Small Questions and Future Errata
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2011, 03:10:03 PM »
This is, quite obviously, another Stonewarden dilemma.

The RaI are rather obvious that psicrystals should not be getting feats.

But the RaW is what matters, and if it says they get feats, then that should be houseruled away.

The only, only, circumstance where this would be appropriate for the scope of this project (even with what else has been done) is if the RaW is ambiguous. Then, a decision to make RaW match with RaI when clarifying the RaW's ambiguity would be appropriate. I do honestly feel that the rest of this project so far has stuck pretty true to that ideal, though if I had more time, I may dispute a bit of what was decided as RaI in other places. ;)

Andion Isurand

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Re: Small Questions and Future Errata
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2011, 11:58:19 PM »
I know this has nothing to do with the current vein, but I would like to propose the following change, or something like it:

Quote
Serpent Kingdoms, page 80
Sarrukh gain the following special quality:
"Archetypal Shape (Ex): No other creature can polymorph or shapechange themselves (or anything else) into a sarrukh's shape, or anything approximating it."

Archetypal Shape is an ability possessed by the Sharn (FR setting)

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Small Questions and Future Errata
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2011, 01:10:54 AM »
I know this has nothing to do with the current vein, but I would like to propose the following change, or something like it:

Quote
Serpent Kingdoms, page 80
Sarrukh gain the following special quality:
"Archetypal Shape (Ex): No other creature can polymorph or shapechange themselves (or anything else) into a sarrukh's shape, or anything approximating it."

Archetypal Shape is an ability possessed by the Sharn (FR setting)

This stops one method of Pun-Pun's ascension, but the current one doesn't use Polymorph.

IMO, the errata to Serpent Kingdoms will have the following line:

Page 80 - Sharrukh [Deletion and Revision]
Under the Manipulate Form ability, delete the last sentence of the second paragraph. Replace the second-to-last paragraph with "Any ability score may be decreased to a minimum of 1 or increased to a maximum of the Sharrukh's own score or up to twice the affected creature's original ability score (discounting Inherent, Enhancement, or any other bonuses to an ability score that originate from something other than the typical +1 per 4 hit dice)."


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Andion Isurand

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Re: Small Questions and Future Errata
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2011, 01:46:32 AM »
Oh? How does the current pun pun work?

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Small Questions and Future Errata
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2011, 01:56:24 AM »
Oh? How does the current pun pun work?

1: Have a 1st level Kobold Paladin make a DC 25 Knowledge (Religion) check (not too hard to do).
2: Summon Pazuzu.
3: Use Pazuzu's benevolence to get a free Wish.
4: Use the Wish to get a Candle of Invocation.
5: Use the Candle to summon a Sharruhk.
6: Use the Gate effect of the candle to command it to give you Manipulate Form.
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: Small Questions and Future Errata
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2011, 03:18:12 PM »
Need an opinion here guys: Should the Lightning Maces combo be nerfed? I'm very inclined to say "No", as it's a melee trick that requires a lot of optimization to work, and it's reliant on critical hits.


If anything, I'd probably change the Lightning Maces feat to make the extra attack replace confirming the critical hit on the first one, so the damage just takes a small hit. It's then a matter of updating 3.0 material so it doesn't create the 2-20 critical range.


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Prime32

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Re: Small Questions and Future Errata
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2011, 07:54:02 PM »
And much of that could be fixed by clarifying the wording on Aptitude so it doesn't let you use illegal weapons.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

EjoThims

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Re: Small Questions and Future Errata
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2011, 10:29:10 PM »
And much of that could be fixed by clarifying the wording on Aptitude so it doesn't let you use illegal weapons.

+1

It's been established that RaI for Aptitude is that it works on feats that allow you to choose a weapon, not on feats that designate a weapon, so I would love to see this clarification included.

Garryl

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Re: Small Questions and Future Errata
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2011, 02:24:34 PM »
I'd love to see teleportation (as should be defined in the PHB or DMG or MM, but sadly isn't) have a default. Something like "Unless otherwise stated, a teleporting creature can bring with it anything it carries or wears, to a maximum of its maximum load. A teleporting creature may choose to leave some carried or worn things behind (such as excessively encumbering carried equipment, or restraints impeding the creature)."
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Andion Isurand

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Re: Small Questions and Future Errata
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2011, 06:44:02 AM »
Eberron Campaign Setting, page 23
Creatures with the Living Construct Subtype gain the following trait:
"Climate Tolerant (Ex): Living Constructs suffer little harm from environmental extremes of heat or cold. They do not have to make Fortitude saves in extreme environments between –20° and 140° F (severe cold to severe heat). This ability does not provide any protection from fire or cold damage. This ability counts as if a living construct had the Cold Endurance and Heat Endurance feats for purposes of fulfilling prerequisites for other feats or prestige classes."
______________________________

It is my assertion that something like the above should be added to a future errata.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 06:51:09 AM by Andion Isurand »