The Speed-Rogue (Optimization Challenge)

[Tr011]

The Concept

The concept of the speed-rogue is pretty simple: He is a master thief not because no one is seeing him stealing - he's the master thief because no one is able to catch him (he's just too fast).

That means by numbers, he needs the following things:

-a base land movement speed of at least 270. That's enough to get out of any trouble.
-he should prevent any AoOs all the time without decreasing movement speed (Complete Adventurer states -20 to tumble for full movement speed).
-a sleight of hand modifier high enough to pick pockets as free action (I think sleight of hand as a free action was -20, DC for pickpocket is 20)

Also useful could be things like:

-not needing to sleep so you can run through the night, stealing lots of stuff
-being able to walk for a longer duration (after 8 hours of movement you regularly need checks)
-a kind of activatable boost (ofc it shouldn't need more than a swift action to activate, so you don't have to stop for a moment)
-huge capacity to carry his loot without decreasing movement speed

Rules

-no infinite loops
-no Leadership/no aid another actions (the speed-rogue is always alone so he doesn't need to share loot)
-if stats are needed, take 32point-buy
-all WotC books allowed (including web stuff and adopted 3.0 stuff)
-dragon magazines allowed
-standard WBL if items are needed (think they will be)
-no retraining/buying off LA allowed

Goal

Make the Speed-Rogue as early in level as possible. I know it's easy possible for a level 20 char, but how early can you get him?

[weenog]

Base land speed figure is strangely specific.  Challenged to counter someone else's character and can't quite do it, or something?

[AriasDerros]

AFB right now, but to get the ball rolling.

Speed enhancers I know of off the top of my head
Quick is a trait out of UA (p89) that gives +10 to your racial speed and -1 HP per HD

Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis permanent version gives Dark Creature for 22k which includes a +10 to speed. ToM p156

+10 enhancement from Heart of Fire, Boots of Striding, Primal Speed, etc.

For the Weight
Easy Travel is a cheep armor enhancement that makes a medium load count as a light load and let you go for 10 hours w/o a check.

For the Lack of Sleep and Long Runner
Basically, you're going to want either construct or undead for this. For LA+0 you're looking at Necropolitan.

Now Why?
My thief for this would be a gnome druid at level 13 and gloves of storing and a bag of holding or handy haversack.
1) walk up to someone. 2) touch desired object. 3) activate glove of storing to shrink the item into glove. 4) use earth master to get away. 5) drop object out of glove into bag. 6) repeat until ludicrously rich.
Earth Master is a Druid 7 spell that basically works as a better version of Greater Teleport. And it's Transmutation, so you don't have to worry about Dimension Anchor and such. Plus if they DO catch you, hey you're a Druid, you win. Plus you get some basic divination's to find where good stuff to steal is or even get the lay of the land for where to go after. Oh, and Spot and Listen are still class skills, and you have spells to help with everything else too.
So I have to agree with weenog's question, is this just for a character challenge?

[rot42]

270' is the base speed for an unencumbered human wizard running on the back of a level 20 Phantom Steed. If nothing goes faster than this, then 270' of movement plus winning initiative will let the Speed Rogue run away from anything that is relying actual physical movement (no teleportation, no Entangle, no spell storing arrow of Dragoneye Rune).

[kitep]

I know it's easy possible for a level 20 char

How does a 20th level char do it?  Once we know some of those tricks, we may be able to shave some levels off.

Phantom Stag (Spell Compendium, p157) gives a druid a mount with a land speed of 20'/level, max 300'.  So you'd have 280' at level 14.  Lasts 1 hr/level, so cast it twice to have it for all day long.  You can get 260' at level 13, and use some item to add the extra 10' the challenge requires.

Doesn't help with the AOO though.

[Tshern]

Use Phantasmal thief from SpC. That way you don't have to go through the formality of stealing, cranking up your caster level does that trick for you.

[snakeman830]

Here's what I think you need:

Race: Dark Shadow Necropolitan Nezumi (LA+3, Buyoff can drop this down to 0 by 20)  Quick Trait
Classes: Rogue 1/Wild Shape Ranger 8/Blade Dancer 10.  Use the Skilled City Dweller to trade Ride out for Tumble and Expeditious Dodge instead of Dodge.

All of this gets him a land speed of 300 ft (unless you count the fast movement from Ranger as racial for Shadow, that gives you another 15ft).

The tricky part is getting a thief into Blade Dancer, as it requires a Lawful alignment.  Perhaps make him something like a land-based privateer?

[X-Codes]

270' is the base speed for an unencumbered human wizard running on the back of a level 20 Phantom Steed. If nothing goes faster than this, then 270' of movement plus winning initiative will let the Speed Rogue run away from anything that is relying actual physical movement (no teleportation, no Entangle, no spell storing arrow of Dragoneye Rune).

No, that's after it's been enhanced by Haste.  240' is the maximum speed, and Wizards hit it at CL 12.

If you're that worried about a CL 20 Phantom Steed, they have, IIRC, 28 HP.  Use Spring Attack to smack the steed and run away simultaneously, or pickpocket from the back of your own Phantom Steed and use Shot on the Run to smack it from a distance.

[archangel.arcanis]

Here's what I think you need:

Race: Dark Shadow Necropolitan Nezumi (LA+3, Buyoff can drop this down to 0 by 20)  Quick Trait
Classes: Rogue 1/Wild Shape Ranger 8/Blade Dancer 10.  Use the Skilled City Dweller to trade Ride out for Tumble and Expeditious Dodge instead of Dodge.

All of this gets him a land speed of 300 ft (unless you count the fast movement from Ranger as racial for Shadow, that gives you another 15ft).

The tricky part is getting a thief into Blade Dancer, as it requires a Lawful alignment.  Perhaps make him something like a land-based privateer?

Get the DM to let you write the setting a bit. Nezumi were an ancient empire that owned all of the lands before the time of man. Now their empire is gone but they still feel they have a birthright to the land and everything on it. Thus they are acquiring what was rightfully theirs back, at least in the character's mind and that is all that really matters, and doing so in such a way that they don't have to kill the ignorant peasants.

[SolEiji]

Somewhere, there is a 1st level only regional feat called Fleet of Foot (which has the name of another inferior feat).  It gives a +10 bonus to speed.

Some way to work the barbarian speed bonus in there somewhere?

[Flay Crimsonwind]

Just so you know...

A phantom steed has a speed of 20 feet per caster level, to a maximum of 240 feet.

So there's that. Wasn't there a (slightly TO) build that got some movement-per-turn in the thousands of feet?

[SolEiji]

Ok, here's what I got, and based on the assumption that some of these alternate class features are not the same feature and therefore stack.  Two flaws.

Start off with a Feral Shadow Nezumi.  That's LA 3 there, but starts with base speed 40, +10 from feral, and 150% from shadow.  Ignoring the shadow multiplier for a moment, let's just look at the base speed, currently 50ft.

Fleet of Foot (the 1st level only version) makes it speed 60.
Quick trait makes it speed 70.
Two flaws go to Wild Talent for power points, and Speed of Thought.  Speed is now 80.
1st level is barbarian, and we gain +10 speed.  Speed is now 90.
2nd level is the wildshape ranger, which also gets an untyped speed bonus.  Speed is now 100.
3rd level is druidic avenger, another untyped speed bonus.  Speed is now 110.  3rd level feat is Travel Devotion.
4th level is cleric, with the Celerity and Animal domains.  Celerity gives +10 speed, trade Animal out for Animal Devotion feet.  Speed is now 120.

At 6th, or sooner if possible, pick up Run as we actually only need those four levels.

Get a ToB item to pick up Absolute Steel stance (Iron Heart 3) for +10 speed.  Speed is now 130.
Get aforementioned Dark template item.  Speed is now 140.

Let's review, right now with all permenant bonuses your speed is 140 ft x 1.5, or 210 base speed and 1050 on a full out run.  We've beaten the requirements but lets go further.

Use the devotion feats.  Animal gives a sacred bonus to speed by using the Cheetah option (it scales, +30 at 20th, so let's use that).  Travel Devotion gives you an extra move action.  Both activated as swifts and lasting for a minute.  So speed is now 170x1.5=255 base speed, and with the extra move action running is x6 that speed, or 1530.

Then haste yourself for good measure in whatever means you like.  Total base speed, 200x1.5=300 ft a round, or 1800ft on a run.

You get BAB 2, some alright hp, rage 2/day, and you can activate cleric magic items.  With some Cha or nightstick abuse you can keep refreshing your devotion feets to have them when you need them.  Switch Animal Devotion and Run, and the build comes online at ECL 7 (4 levels + LA 3).

Alternatively, be a spellcaster and polymorph into the biggest Mercury Dragon possible (I don't have the book on hand, so I can't say which one).  They START at 200ft fly (perfect) and end up at 300ft.  Most likely it'll cap just at the 250ft fly (good) age catagories.  Apply any or all of the previous suggestions to said dragon and enjoy.

[skydragonknight]

Having an Ardent level would negate the need for Wild Talent as well as let you pick the Freedom Mantle for another +10 untyped bonus to speed.

I don't know what the Nezumi bonuses are, but Catfolk are another possibility: LA+1 +4 Dex +1 Cha (another turn attempt for travel devotion) with 40 ft base speed. Unless Nezumi are LA+0.

Blade Dancer would still help this a lot....double base land speed at 1st level, and most untyped fast movements specifically increase your actual base land speed instead of merely providing a bonus to it.

[SolEiji]

Nezumi are LA 0.  I believe they are +2 Con, -2 Cha, some claw attacks, a campaign specific immunity (to shadowland taint or somesuch), and the aforementioned speed 40.  Medium.  If memory serves they are Humanoids even though my book forgot to list their type.

Ardent is a good idea, and adding Blade Dancer on top just sweetens the deal.

[Slaughterhouserock]

Wasn't there a (slightly TO) build that got some movement-per-turn in the thousands of feet?

Sounds like Chuck E. Cheese.  A slightly different, and faster, version of Chuck can be found here.

[Tshern]

Just so you know...

A phantom steed has a speed of 20 feet per caster level, to a maximum of 240 feet.

So there's that. Wasn't there a (slightly TO) build that got some movement-per-turn in the thousands of feet?

Reserves of strength.

[SneeR]

The CW ranger without magic variant gets a speed bonus in there. Monk is too much investment, obviously. Oh, 1st level spell expeditious retreat should be thrown in there for good measure. Easy to get ahold of.

[emaNsdrawkcaB]

Cheetah's Speed [Wild], 50 base land speed for an hour, and once per hour you can run 10 times your speed.

Needs Wildshape.

[Prime32]

There's a druid variant which gets fast movement.

Two in fact, and they can be combined.

[Phoenix00]

Wyrmling Mercury Dragon has 200ft fly (perfect) 3hd+2la
Shadow Creature (+3 la) makes this 300ft fly since it increases movement via 50%

Worried about flying all day, well become a ghost and keep the movement mode but now you are undead and thus can fly all day.  Ghosts can take the ghostly grasp feat so he can touch those material items.

----------------------------------------------------

I do have a question, is a ghost flight ex or su?