Author Topic: Fixing a PC and making it credible  (Read 7222 times)

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kevin_video

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2011, 12:19:01 PM »
Mystic Ranger Prestige Paladin Ruby Knight Vindicator? Battle Blessing, SotAO, etc.. Fighter 2 dip should help here.. I guess this won't do, but w/e, just typing random thoughts here... I find the situation overtly crippling even w/ what you said.. like, seriously..? ;/
The option won't even be looked at by the DM.

Kevin, you're like a beaten wife asking us to help you pick a dress that matches your black eyes.
Make me look pretty. Just don't chose polka dots.

I see 2 options here:

1/Kill your character and play a new one  :fu

2/Kill the DM  :smirk
You need to get your eyes checked.

1) Killing my character only makes it worse (you can't die, just have templates added to it or random reincarnate for race but keep class).
2) Jail's not worth it.
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2011, 12:26:20 PM »
Kevin for a while it was amusing to see your horror stories about your gaming group. Now though it is just painful to watch. Please just tell this DM to go fuck himself until he realizes how much of a douche bag he is being and just play PbP. I know it isn't as good as playing F2F but anything is better than tolerating this guys crap.
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Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

Solo

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2011, 12:27:49 PM »
Plus, you would stop bothering me with inane posts. That's always a plus in my book.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

kevin_video

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2011, 12:29:12 PM »
Kevin for a while it was amusing to see your horror stories about your gaming group. Now though it is just painful to watch. Please just tell this DM to go fuck himself until he realizes how much of a douche bag he is being and just play PbP. I know it isn't as good as playing F2F but anything is better than tolerating this guys crap.
I have my own group. Two of the guys from this group play in mine. Mine's the one you play in, the other's the one you basically fool around in.

Plus, you would stop bothering me with inane posts. That's always a plus in my book.
Okay, I'll just stop making posts about this. If my PC's really that far gone, I'll deal with it on my own.
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Like D&D Freakouts? Check out this 4th Ed one.

mesher

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2011, 01:26:32 PM »
Good luck,

But you should apply your signature's quotes to your actual situation:

Quote
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

 :rollseyes

kevin_video

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2011, 01:31:38 PM »
Good luck,

But you should apply your signature's quotes to your actual situation:

Quote
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

 :rollseyes
Unfortunately in game terms, the DM makes his own reality and you can't input your own. And I'm my own god giving out sweeter lemons than I knew possible.
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Like D&D Freakouts? Check out this 4th Ed one.

mesher

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2011, 01:47:29 PM »
I then recommend you use these miracle tablets and share some with your DM also (it can't hurt, I guess)

http://www.thinkgeek.com/caffeine/accessories/ab3f/

Let me know if you need a new miracle  ;)

kremti

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2011, 02:25:07 PM »
Good luck,

But you should apply your signature's quotes to your actual situation:

Quote
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

 :rollseyes
Unfortunately in game terms, the DM makes his own reality and you can't input your own. And I'm my own god giving out sweeter lemons than I knew possible.

"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these?! Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!" - Cave Johnson

I suggest you listen to Cave Johnson.

-K

doneasy

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2011, 03:33:34 PM »
Since you are already Lawful Neutral, you might want to consider a couple of levels in incarnate. Lawful incarnates have lots of ways to bust attack bonuses, plus there are soulmelds to help actually being average at a few of your lost skills.

Rejakor

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2011, 03:42:09 PM »
I don't think kevin should stop bringing these problems here... it's still a min/max problem, it just adds the [stealth] tag.  It has to look 'Core' and seem 'Core' and gygaxian and yet, not suck.

The DM seems to like ToB.  Well, just the Warblade.  And the ranger, if that homebrewed feat is any guide.  He just doesn't get that the feat doesn't actually make ranger better... the point of ranger is the skills, only, ever, and bonus feats if you were gonna take those ones anyway... it's a decent fighter substitute dip, just like monk.  So my suggestion?  Play a warblade.  Don't ubercharge, just find feats that add to your damage, to-hit, and AC.  (fyi- on not ubercharging;  the point of taking shock trooper is that you charge more after you get it - flour/glitterdust or see invis + flight solves nearly all ubercharging problems... and if enemies are invisible, screws over all melee, not just you... sit back and let them sort it out)

Having a high AC, to hit, and damage, means you'll succeed more and it won't be obvious why.  You won't be pulling out some combo or repeated action for your DM to fixate on.  It's a stealth way of being good at your job.


However, the sorcerer gish thing could also work.  Keep in mind, text trumps table, jade phoenix mage gives full casting.  Don't tell your DM this.  Don't point it out.  Don't mention it.  Just quietly add 1 CL and new spells each time you level up.  If he comes to you going 'YOU ONLY GET HALF SPELLS' act like you thought he knew and mention that it 'got errata'd' so the table matches text.  Don't volunteer ANYTHING, that will just get you targeted with the nerfbat, as any kind of mentioning anything will be taken as permission-asking for cheese.

Your DM is in full gygaxian DM vs players mindset.  You are supposed to be, in this kind of 'relationship', keeping your sheet hidden and never being 'too good' or you'll get nerfed, or instakilled.


If you're not going/can't go ubercharger, drop those ranger levels like bad news.  If you're going sorcerer, replace ranger with sorcerer each time you level up.  Note:  It's very hard to nerfbat buff spells without seeming unfair.  Especially PHB buff spells.  If he tries to, keep repeating 'But it's PHB!' over and over in a shocked and stunned kind of way, and he'll stop.  Belief in the 'balance' of 'core' is central to GMs/players like him.  They think 'Extend Spell' is super-weak.  And that fireball is really powerful.



Also, your list of reasons as to why you 'were in the wrong' and 'invited this to happen' is really really eerily similar to the kinds of things beaten women say to police officers.  Seriously.


Oh, and my overly pretentious hipster boyfriend asked me to note; 'Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster.'

Unbeliever

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2011, 04:23:39 PM »
^ +1

Is it wrong that I play D&D all the time but want to consign Gygax to the Hell of the Boiling Oil? 

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2011, 05:21:40 PM »
^ +1

Is it wrong that I play D&D all the time but want to consign Gygax to the Hell of the Boiling Oil? 
You have to realize that what are considered classic 'gygaxian' modules were designed for tournaments at conventions, where killing off PCs quickly and humorously was the objective from the get-go, and nobody had much invested in their characters.
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Rejakor

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2011, 05:24:17 PM »
Except the handbooks he wrote specifically instruct the DM to engage in the kind of dickish behaviours kevin's GM engages in.


To be honest, the really hard 'kill your players' modules don't bother me nearly as much as the 'kill off players who are doing too well', 'cheat', and 'make your players fear you' advice in some of those rules books.

kevin_video

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2011, 05:06:58 AM »
I don't think kevin should stop bringing these problems here... it's still a min/max problem, it just adds the [stealth] tag.  It has to look 'Core' and seem 'Core' and gygaxian and yet, not suck.

The DM seems to like ToB.  Well, just the Warblade.  And the ranger, if that homebrewed feat is any guide.  He just doesn't get that the feat doesn't actually make ranger better... the point of ranger is the skills, only, ever, and bonus feats if you were gonna take those ones anyway... it's a decent fighter substitute dip, just like monk.  So my suggestion?  Play a warblade.  Don't ubercharge, just find feats that add to your damage, to-hit, and AC.  (fyi- on not ubercharging;  the point of taking shock trooper is that you charge more after you get it - flour/glitterdust or see invis + flight solves nearly all ubercharging problems... and if enemies are invisible, screws over all melee, not just you... sit back and let them sort it out)

Having a high AC, to hit, and damage, means you'll succeed more and it won't be obvious why.  You won't be pulling out some combo or repeated action for your DM to fixate on.  It's a stealth way of being good at your job.

However, the sorcerer gish thing could also work.  Keep in mind, text trumps table, jade phoenix mage gives full casting.  Don't tell your DM this.  Don't point it out.  Don't mention it.  Just quietly add 1 CL and new spells each time you level up.  If he comes to you going 'YOU ONLY GET HALF SPELLS' act like you thought he knew and mention that it 'got errata'd' so the table matches text.  Don't volunteer ANYTHING, that will just get you targeted with the nerfbat, as any kind of mentioning anything will be taken as permission-asking for cheese.

Your DM is in full gygaxian DM vs players mindset.  You are supposed to be, in this kind of 'relationship', keeping your sheet hidden and never being 'too good' or you'll get nerfed, or instakilled.

If you're not going/can't go ubercharger, drop those ranger levels like bad news.  If you're going sorcerer, replace ranger with sorcerer each time you level up.  Note:  It's very hard to nerfbat buff spells without seeming unfair.  Especially PHB buff spells.  If he tries to, keep repeating 'But it's PHB!' over and over in a shocked and stunned kind of way, and he'll stop.  Belief in the 'balance' of 'core' is central to GMs/players like him.  They think 'Extend Spell' is super-weak.  And that fireball is really powerful.

Also, your list of reasons as to why you 'were in the wrong' and 'invited this to happen' is really really eerily similar to the kinds of things beaten women say to police officers.  Seriously.

Oh, and my overly pretentious hipster boyfriend asked me to note; 'Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster.'
The DM doesn't hate anything other than campaign breaking stuff that should be super nerfed. He's all about the RAW. Hence you'd never go sorcerer/cleric/mystic theurge on the principle that it doesn't say that you gain spells known. Of course you should never take this, but still. You can take whatever class you want, you just can't whatever PrC you want (eg Prestige Paladin, etc) when there's a base race version. He'll also tell you when you're taking a stupid PrC, even if you think it's awesome, because it actually sucks, and recommend other ones instead. He's even changed a few of the feats that are actually better in PF than they were in 3.5, or if that's not possible, he homebrews his own based on ideas he's read in dragon magazines. Like the fact that there's three Weapon Finesse stacking feats, and Improved Critical stacks with Keen again.

The problem with trying to get a high AC is that we're at a point now where either everything hits you, or nothing does. There's nothing in between. The joys of mid-level.

Where can I reference "text trumps table" because we don't build our characters. He handles our character sheets. It's all done on his computer program that he developed to update all of our characters and his NPCs. He knows full well that ToB doesn't have an errata. And I can take whatever spells I want so long as it's not third party. If every spell I took was from SpC, he wouldn't care. He'd just want a reference. He won't worry about nerfbatting spells. He only nerfbats feats. Well, except polymorph. That's the PF version now. Better than not having it at all.

If I go uber charger, I'll dip into fighter next level and take Shocktrooper. Honestly, I don't know what the best course of action would be. I've got a decent set of skills ready to go for sorcerer and abjurant champion. I've got a mithral animated shield so that could cause some interference for spellcasting until I get twilight on it.

As for my reasons that I mentioned, while they may sound like that of a beaten wife, note that a beaten wife has only herself to blame, if in frustration, she decides to step on a planted mine before looking where she's walking.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 05:09:41 AM by kevin_video »
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Like D&D Freakouts? Check out this 4th Ed one.

Esgath

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2011, 06:33:18 AM »
Where can I reference "text trumps table" because we don't build our characters.

PHB errata here. First paragraph. And I think it's in every errata file.

kevin_video

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2011, 12:14:38 PM »
Where can I reference "text trumps table" because we don't build our characters.

PHB errata here. First paragraph. And I think it's in every errata file.
That's likely going to be very useful.
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Like D&D Freakouts? Check out this 4th Ed one.

Solo

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2011, 12:47:53 PM »
Plus, you would stop bothering me with inane posts. That's always a plus in my book.
Okay, I'll just stop making posts about this. If my PC's really that far gone, I'll deal with it on my own.
It's not that you shouldn't bring min/max problems to us - you should, it's what we're here for - it's that the issues you put forth are not something that we can solve via character optimization. You have an idiot for a DM who is, either out of willful spite or blinding incompetence, ruining the game for you and no amount of powergaming on our part can heal your wounds. At most we can give you a morphine drip.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

kevin_video

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2011, 12:49:10 PM »
Plus, you would stop bothering me with inane posts. That's always a plus in my book.
Okay, I'll just stop making posts about this. If my PC's really that far gone, I'll deal with it on my own.
It's not that you shouldn't bring min/max problems to us - you should, it's what we're here for - it's that the issues you put forth are not something that we can solve via character optimization. You have an idiot for a DM who is, either out of willful spite or blinding incompetence, ruining the game for you and no amount of powergaming on our part can heal your wounds. At most we can give you a morphine drip.
Morphine's good. Makes you love everybody.
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Like D&D Freakouts? Check out this 4th Ed one.

Solo

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2011, 12:52:57 PM »
LOVE IS NOT THE ANSWER HERE!!!

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

kevin_video

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Re: Fixing a PC and making it credible
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2011, 12:53:52 PM »
LOVE IS NOT THE ANSWER HERE!!!
lol But the world would be such a better place if there was only love.
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Like D&D Freakouts? Check out this 4th Ed one.