Human Cloistered Cleric

[RobbyPants]

I'm toying with making a human cloistered cleric for a solo game. Optimization isn't seriously important, as the DM can just match my capabilities, but I'm looking for some general pointers.

Material:
Most Completes (Not Scoundrel), PHB2, BoVD/BoED, Heroes of Horror, Libris Mortis, Dungeonscape/Cityscape.

Some stuff from UA: Spell points or Recharge likely. Probably traits and flaws. Possibly race and class variants (Cloistered Cleric, obviously). He may be using some weird version of Action points that he's homebrewing, that are tied to a Luck score.

No Races of X books, setting-specific books, or It's Hot/Cold/Wet Outside. No Dragon Mag.

Starting level:
3rd.

Classes:
That being said, I was thinking Human Cloistered Cleric, taking some levels in Church Inquisitor, and then Radiant Servant of Pelor (the DM is using his own custom deities, and will let be be LG to fulfill RSoP, so the alignment restriction isn't mutually exclusive).

Feats:
I haven't hammered these out. I'll almost certainly take Law Devotion and Knowledge Devotion. I'm not sure if I should swap the Knowledge domain for the feat, or actually take the feat at 3rd level. Having all knowledges as class skills is nice, but saving a feat is awseome too.

I'm not sure I want to go the whole Power Attack/two-handed weapon route, or not. If so, I might wait until 6th level to take PA, as Divine Power will be right around the corner. This type of multiclassing will leave my BAB extremely low without it (+1 at 4th level! Yikes!).

Suggestions?
Now, this leaves me in light armor. Since I am the party, I'll likely be exposed to front-line attacks. Is this doable? Is there some clever way to boost my AC at low/mid levels? Neither of the PrCs improve my armor proficiency, and I'm loathe to lose a caster level. If I had to, I could dip Crusader, but I'd rather avoid it.

It seems at low levels, a chain shirt, medium Dex, light shield, and Law Devotion could be passible, but this won't scale very well. If we're using recharge casting, I can keep certain spells like Protection from Evil up most/all of the time.

Are there any must have feats for this type of character? Being a solo game, I'd like to be semi versatile. Being a full caster gets me most of the way there, but I'm open to other ideas to augment that.


Thanks!


Edit:
Dammit! They're not proficient with shields! I suppose there's always mithril...  

- Added more to the allowed material list.

[Lo77o]

If your DM will let you use Exalted Spells, there is always the Luminous Armor armor line. The second level spell gives you +5 AC and -4 for people to hit you who relies on light to see you. That is 9 extra AC in most fights, and should hold you at a decent AC for a few levels.

[RobbyPants]

There's a good chance he'll allow it. I forgot to list the BoVD/BoED in the list of allowed materials. I know he likes the those books, so they're probably in (I'll edit the OP). I'll have to comb through the BoED for useful spells. I so seldom look at those.

[RobbyPants]

I think I'll shy away from that spell. The straight AC boost of the armor won't be any higher than a +1 Chain shirt, and the +4 Sacred bonus won't stack with Law Devotion.

Thanks, though. I think I found a few other spells in there that deserve a second look.

[PhaedrusXY]

I think I'll shy away from that spell. The straight AC boost of the armor won't be any higher than a +1 Chain shirt, and the +4 Sacred bonus won't stack with Law Devotion.

Thanks, though. I think I found a few other spells in there that deserve a second look.

Umm... wat? It's not a +4 Sacred bonus to AC, it's a -4 penalty to the melee attacks of enemies.

[TenaciousJ]

If you're worried about BAB pre-Divine Power, see if you can get Fractional BAB from UA pg. 73 approved.  Levels of Cloistered Cleric would add 0.5 per level and the Prestige Classes add 0.75 per level.

Re-read Radiant Servant.  It says you gain proficiency with all armor and with shields.  You'll be covered after level 6, assuming you're going Cloistered Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 2 and then jumping to Radiant Servant ASAP.  Luminous Armor really is your best bet before Radiant Servant.  Save yourself the money a +1 to a Chain Shirt would cost since you'll be able to upgrade armor types later on, and take advantage of the -4 to enemy melee attacks.

[SneeR]

Is he cool with you playing a cloistered cleric if UA isn't allowed? I don't see it on the list...

[RobbyPants]

Umm... wat? It's not a +4 Sacred bonus to AC, it's a -4 penalty to the melee attacks of enemies.

I must be being stupid. I'm not sure what I read. The only real downside to this spell is the sacrifice cost, which means I'd have to prep Lesser Restoration as my other spell, effectively costing me two spells to have this activated.

If we're using Recharge casting, I should be able to keep it up all day long, at least.

If you're worried about BAB pre-Divine Power, see if you can get Fractional BAB from UA pg. 73 approved.  Levels of Cloistered Cleric would add 0.5 per level and the Prestige Classes add 0.75 per level.

He might be cool with that. I've never asked in the past.

Re-read Radiant Servant.  It says you gain proficiency with all armor and with shields.  You'll be covered after level 6, assuming you're going Cloistered Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 2 and then jumping to Radiant Servant ASAP.  Luminous Armor really is your best bet before Radiant Servant.  Save yourself the money a +1 to a Chain Shirt would cost since you'll be able to upgrade armor types later on, and take advantage of the -4 to enemy melee attacks.

How did I miss that? I could have sworn I read that. Well, it's nice to know. That's probably about the point where I'll need a serious AC boost, anyway.

IIRC, you need to be 6th level to qualify, so I'd be 7th to take the 1st level of RSoP, but yeah. I'll probably jump in at earliest convenience. I just have to see what Church Inquisitor grants at each level.

Is he cool with you playing a cloistered cleric if UA isn't allowed? I don't see it on the list...

Well, UA is sort of a weird book, in that a lot of it contradicts other parts. It's not so much that UA is open, but more that certain features are open. I'll update the OP with the parts I think he's using. That being said...


Flaws:
I read through the flaws a while ago and couldn't really think of any for the PC to take. It's easier to take one or two with a party because they can shore up your weakness, but I'll be expected to do everything. The only two I can think of taking are Murky Eyed (the one everyone takes, right?) and maybe Feeble. My biggest concern with Feeble is that the -2 penalty would apply to Initiative as well, which would totally suck.

Are there any other obvious ones I'm missing?

[radionausea]

Shaky and Vulnerable are probably your best bet (I know you've been talking about your AC but a -1 to AC for a feat is too good to pass up).

Remember as well that you can swap out the Inquisition domain for Knowledge Devotion to save yourself a feat.

[RobbyPants]

Shaky and Vulnerable are probably your best bet (I know you've been talking about your AC but a -1 to AC for a feat is too good to pass up).

I think you're right about Vulnerable. I'm iffy on Shaky. It is usually a go-to for clerics for me, but in a solo game, it might be a problem.

Looking back on Feeble and my worry about -2 Initiative, I'm not sure that Initiative is actually a Dex check based on the definition of ability checks, so that makes Feeble a bit more attractive. The RP-justification for this is the PC will likely have inflated physical stats for how I pictured her before her adventuring career. I figured this could be flavored by the deity giving some sort of divine blessing or some such. Feeble will counteract the skill boost from the inflated stats while leaving the combat portion alone. The net effect is the deity blessing her in combat. I kind of like this. Also, the only skills that will take a hit are Climb, Jump, Swim, Hide, Move Silently, and Concentration. The penalty on Concentration sucks, but the others really have next to no effect on me.

I don't know. Maybe -2 to hit on ranged attacks is better than -2 Concentration.

Remember as well that you can swap out the Inquisition domain for Knowledge Devotion to save yourself a feat.

How's that work if I already get the knowledge domain as a cloistered cleric? Are you saying I take the domain normally at level 1, then when I pick up the inquisition domain, I trade it for the knowledge domain again and quickly turn it into the Knowledge Devotion feat?

[Shiki]

"An initiative check is a Dexterity check." Can't be clearer than that, so Feeble is kind of crap, depending for which character you want it for. But if there are no limits on the numbers of Flaws you can take, I'd pick it anyway since more Feats mean You Are Better.

[TenaciousJ]

Remember as well that you can swap out the Inquisition domain for Knowledge Devotion to save yourself a feat.

How's that work if I already get the knowledge domain as a cloistered cleric? Are you saying I take the domain normally at level 1, then when I pick up the inquisition domain, I trade it for the knowledge domain again and quickly turn it into the Knowledge Devotion feat?

Complete Champion has a domain equivalencies table that says the Inquisition domain can be traded for the Knowledge Devotion feat on page 53.

[RobbyPants]

"An initiative check is a Dexterity check." Can't be clearer than that, so Feeble is kind of crap, depending for which character you want it for.

Goddammit. I should have looked under Initiative instead of Ability Checks. Oh well. I wasn't totally sold on the flaw even though I came up with a justification for it.

But if there are no limits on the numbers of Flaws you can take, I'd pick it anyway since more Feats mean You Are Better.

You're limited to two at character creation, but the DM can allow more later if they seem fitting. So, in theory, I could try to bullshit him into letting me take Feeble if I get hit with Waves of Exhaustion too much or Murky Eyed if I got blinded or something, but there's no guarantee.

Remember as well that you can swap out the Inquisition domain for Knowledge Devotion to save yourself a feat.

How's that work if I already get the knowledge domain as a cloistered cleric? Are you saying I take the domain normally at level 1, then when I pick up the inquisition domain, I trade it for the knowledge domain again and quickly turn it into the Knowledge Devotion feat?

Complete Champion has a domain equivalencies table that says the Inquisition domain can be traded for the Knowledge Devotion feat on page 53.

Ah. Thanks. I have to look at the spells I get again. I'd kinda like to have Knowledge Devotion right at character creation. Or I might be able to talk the DM into starting at 4th level, instead...  

[Shiki]

But if there are no limits on the numbers of Flaws you can take, I'd pick it anyway since more Feats mean You Are Better.

You're limited to two at character creation, but the DM can allow more later if they seem fitting. So, in theory, I could try to bullshit him into letting me take Feeble if I get hit with Waves of Exhaustion too much or Murky Eyed if I got blinded or something, but there's no guarantee.

Do note that I do not advocate the use of more than two, if even the use of them at all, since Flaws happen to be one aspect of the game that helps bringing up the power creep or w/e. But if they are in play (as in used by the whole group), it is kind of imperative that everyone use them or not because of the already-mentioned power creep thing. But I guess you already knew that. Although, the group thing does not apply here since it's a solo game, so use them if you want.

[RobbyPants]

Yeah, I'm still toying with what feats I actually need for this character. I could seriously pay for Law Devotion, Knowledge Devotion, and Improved Initiative with no flaws at 3rd level with no domain swapping, and it wouldn't be a shitty character.

I'm just wondering if I need to get anything more. I could free up up to two feats with swapping domains for devotion feats and two more again with flaws. I just don't know if I need an extra one to four feats, or not. I'll have to give this some more thought. I'm open to any suggestions. In the mean time: back to the Cleric Handbook, for me.

[Gavinfoxx]

Invest in a bunch of trained animals.  Wardogs, Mules, whatever.

[X-Codes]

Invest in a bunch of trained animals.  Wardogs, Mules, whatever.

I think 1 mule is enough.  Honestly, if the camp is going to scale to his capabilities then he should keep the minion mustering to a minimum so that everything goes faster.

Don't bother prepping Lesser Restoration.  If you're going with Recharge Magic and Divine Power, then you'll have more than enough Strength for Power Attack regardless, and the sacrifice cost on Luminous Armor is basically going to be 1d2 per day.  That means every other day you need to hit yourself with a Ray of Resurgence.  If you find yourself casting it a lot, then find some other nice Sanctified spells and take the Faster Ability Healing feat.

Knowledge Domain is really good, you should keep it and pick up the feat at 3rd.  I assume you're also picking up the Time domain, which is another good idea.  I would actually go with that domain for spontaneous casting, if possible.

[SneeR]

Cloistered cleric is fun with Divine Power, Vigor, and DMM Persist. Don't forget that you can both Extend and Persist to make the spell last 2 days, so you need only enough turn attempts to Persist 1 spell a day, bumping it up 1 spell level for Extend.

If Magic Item Compendium is allowed, there is the Reliquary Holy Symbol that grants additional turn attempts to take some of the CHA strain off your shoulders. That way you can cut down on MAD.

[RobbyPants]

Don't bother prepping Lesser Restoration.  If you're going with Recharge Magic and Divine Power, then you'll have more than enough Strength for Power Attack regardless, and the sacrifice cost on Luminous Armor is basically going to be 1d2 per day.  That means every other day you need to hit yourself with a Ray of Resurgence.  If you find yourself casting it a lot, then find some other nice Sanctified spells and take the Faster Ability Healing feat.

I'm thinking about Luminous Armor for starting at 3rd level. By the time I can cast Divine Power, I'll probably have a suit of mithril fullplate or something. So, at 3rd level, the spell only lasts 3 hours, so I'll either have to cut days short or suck up a total of 4d2 or so Str damage. Still, looking at that spell, it should be plenty good for 3rd level along with Law Devotion, and Lesser Restoration is handy for other stuff as well.

Knowledge Domain is really good, you should keep it and pick up the feat at 3rd.  I assume you're also picking up the Time domain, which is another good idea.  I would actually go with that domain for spontaneous casting, if possible.

I may also trade it at 4th level for the Inquisition domain. I do like some of the spells, but I have to see how things go for feats.

Cloistered cleric is fun with Divine Power, Vigor, and DMM Persist. Don't forget that you can both Extend and Persist to make the spell last 2 days, so you need only enough turn attempts to Persist 1 spell a day, bumping it up 1 spell level for Extend.

DMM Persist isn't as useful with recharge casting. I can cast those spells as often as I want anyway. The only downside if the lost action in combat, and I can sometimes anticipate it and cast early, anyway.

Although, if the DM leans toward the SP system, then it might be a different story. I have to see if that will even fly.

If Magic Item Compendium is allowed, there is the Reliquary Holy Symbol that grants additional turn attempts to take some of the CHA strain off your shoulders. That way you can cut down on MAD.

I'll have to look into those.

[TenaciousJ]

Cloistered cleric is fun with Divine Power, Vigor, and DMM Persist. Don't forget that you can both Extend and Persist to make the spell last 2 days, so you need only enough turn attempts to Persist 1 spell a day, bumping it up 1 spell level for Extend.

DMM Persist isn't as useful with recharge casting. I can cast those spells as often as I want anyway. The only downside if the lost action in combat, and I can sometimes anticipate it and cast early, anyway.

Although, if the DM leans toward the SP system, then it might be a different story. I have to see if that will even fly.

Don't overlook the action economy of DMM Persist.  For 7 turn attempts, you've saved yourself 1 standard action per combat.  You might get some mileage from DMM Quicken instead, but if you're using DMM Quicken to cast buffs you could have Persisted, Persist pulls ahead for turn attempt efficiency at the 3rd combat of the day, and DMM Persist leaves your swift actions open.