Author Topic: Is there any benefit to having a casting level higher then 20 before epic?  (Read 2351 times)

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lianightdemon

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So I'm building a cheesy dragonspawn kobold sorcerer for fun. The build is basically Sorcerer 2/Mindbender 1/Metaphysical Spellshaper 3/Warmage 4/Incantatrix 10

Focuses on spamming massively twinned orbs of force or whatever and buffing with persistent spells.

This gives me full casting with all those prestige classes and then I get +4 casting levels on top of that with loredrake, dragonspawn, and the dragonwrought kobold ritual. I get 9th level spells at level 14 and cap out my spells at level 16.

Since I get all the spells I should get as a 20 sorcerer.

Is there any other benefit to this? Or should I pick other prestige classes or classes that don't grant spells?

archangel.arcanis

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Not all CL effects cap out at 20 and SR is an all or nothing defense. Also look in the Dragonlance Campaign book for the Reserves of Strength feat it arguably removes the cap on any spell.
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radionausea

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And go spellhoarding and riddled as well.  find a way to get blasphemy/holy word
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RelentlessImp

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There's better ways to boost your caster level, and the only benefit are thus:

Harder to dispel spells, longer durations on spells (only really good for hour/level or days/level, as minutes/level and rounds/level are really too short to even bother keeping track of)... I think that's really it.

If you really cared about caster level, you could have CL 30 for all your spells at 20 without really expending anything, and get some free metamagic on top of that (Beguiler 1/Wizard 3/Spellthief 1/Ultimate Magus 10 into wizard-advancing PrCs, with Master Spellthief).

If you want to cheese it out, take Swiftblade from the WotC website. The +4 from Loredrake, White Dragonspawn, Greater Draconic Rite negates the -4 spell levels you lose for it, and you get 3.0 Haste as far as your spells are concerned. So instead of throwing out 2 Orbs of Force per round, you're now throwing 4.
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Daniel678

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Both Telekinesis and Black Tentacles are not capped by CL. Wings of Flurry is also uncapped.

mthor

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What AA said. The reasons to increase CL would be if you need to beat SR or increase duration on spells you couldn't persist. If you have a couple feats left for cooperative spell and the feat that lets you prepare spells like a wizard then you could take 4 levels in mage of the arcane order to be able to cast any utility spell you want as well as never have to worry about learning buff spells that you are going to cast outside of combat.
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lianightdemon

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Reserves of Strength does nothing of the sort. It is basically Overchannel for casters but instead of taking damage you are stunned for a number of rounds equal to what you raised the caster level cap by 1-3. Taking damage if your not effected by stunning.


archangel.arcanis

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Reserves of Strength does nothing of the sort. It is basically Overchannel for casters but instead of taking damage you are stunned for a number of rounds equal to what you raised the caster level cap by 1-3. Taking damage if your not effected by stunning.
There is a reason I said arguably as it isn't all that clear that it works like over channel and they never clarified. If in your game it doesn't work that way then ignore that part. Besides Daniel678 mentioned some spells that are uncapped without dirty tricks.
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Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

lianightdemon

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"Benefit: When you cast a spell, you can decide to increase your caster level with that spell by 1,2, or 3, but you are stunned for an equal number of rounds immediately after doing so. Your increased caster level affects all level based variables of the spell, including range, area of effect, spell penetration, and the difficulty of dispelling the spell. You can exceed the normal level fixed limits of a spell with this feat, so a 9th level wizard could use Reserves of Strength to cast a fireball as a 12th level wizard and deal 12d6 fire damage.
If you are not subject to stunning effects, you instead suffer 1d6, 3d6, or 5d6 points of damage when you call upon your Reserves of Strength feat. "
DragonLance Campaign Setting Page 86

From SRD
Overchannel [Psionic]

You burn your life force to strengthen your powers.
Benefit

While manifesting a power, you can increase your effective manifester level by one, but in so doing you take 1d8 points of damage. At 8th level, you can choose to increase your effective manifester level by two, but you take 3d8 points of damage. At 15th level, you can increase your effective manifester level by three, but you take 5d8 points of damage.

The effective increase in manifester level increases the number of power points you can expend on a single power manifestation, as well as increasing all manifester level-dependent effects, such as range, duration, and overcoming power resistance.
Normal

Your manifester level is equal to your total levels in classes that manifest powers.

« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 07:55:15 PM by lianightdemon »

lianightdemon

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heh well i could Enhance Spell early and make my orbs deal 240 damage each. As a vulnerable dragon wrought kobold.

archangel.arcanis

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"Benefit: When you cast a spell, you can decide to increase your caster level with that spell by 1,2, or 3, but you are stunned for an equal number of rounds immediately after doing so. Your increased caster level affects all level based variables of the spell, including range, area of effect, spell penetration, and the difficulty of dispelling the spell. You can exceed the normal level fixed limits of a spell with this feat, so a 9th level wizard could use Reserves of Strength to cast a fireball as a 12th level wizard and deal 12d6 fire damage.
If you are not subject to stunning effects, you instead suffer 1d6, 3d6, or 5d6 points of damage when you call upon your Reserves of Strength feat. "
DragonLance Campaign Setting Page 86

From SRD
Overchannel [Psionic]

You burn your life force to strengthen your powers.
Benefit

While manifesting a power, you can increase your effective manifester level by one, but in so doing you take 1d8 points of damage. At 8th level, you can choose to increase your effective manifester level by two, but you take 3d8 points of damage. At 15th level, you can increase your effective manifester level by three, but you take 5d8 points of damage.

The effective increase in manifester level increases the number of power points you can expend on a single power manifestation, as well as increasing all manifester level-dependent effects, such as range, duration, and overcoming power resistance.
Normal

Your manifester level is equal to your total levels in classes that manifest powers.
The Bold parts are what is relevant and they are not the same thing. Especially since no powers are inherently limited. The same issues come up when an 11th level wizard uses reserves on a fireball, does he deal 10+ the cl boost or does he deal 11+cl boost d6? Why? Besides if you are pulling all the tricks needed to get that CL this one is a drop in the bucket. Either way it doesn't matter that is a DM call in the end and this isn't an argument I feel like having. I was just pointing out possible uses for the CL.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

awaken DM golem

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Figuring out which Powers are ML uncapped is easy: (aug) = do it.

Figuring out which Spells are CL uncapped (without extra goo to do it) ...  ???

Bauglir's got the CL booster thread on the handbooks board.

Did someone ever make a List of the uncapped spells ?

Lycanthromancer

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The Bold parts are what is relevant and they are not the same thing. Especially since few powers are inherently limited.
There are a few. See Tornado Blast's augment, for instance.
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lianightdemon

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The point I was trying to make is that the feat doesn't totally uncap it so my chars high caster level doesn't help. It only uncaps it for the 1-3 caster level the feat provides in exchange for stunning or damage. This is for spells who's cap is fixed like fireball.

For spells like wings of flurry with that feat I could deal 28d6 damage before metamagics.