Author Topic: Regeneration  (Read 7366 times)

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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2011, 12:54:15 AM »
How long do the Shriver effects last? I'm AFB, and it'd just be good to keep in mind. Is it one of the 1 year long effects?
99 days. Admit able it's a bit hard to catch from Cantrip's post.

That's pretty amazing for 30K! However, you have to do Corrupt and/or Obeisant acts (pg. 30) equal to the number you managed to get per 99 days or it's lost. Not so hard, even without turning Evil. Don't stay too long, though, because any extra time will give no more benefit, but will require more acts!

That actually makes it sound like it lasts indefinitely, as long as you commit enough indecent acts every 99 days...
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2011, 01:51:40 AM »
How long do the Shriver effects last? I'm AFB, and it'd just be good to keep in mind. Is it one of the 1 year long effects?
99 days. Admit able it's a bit hard to catch from Cantrip's post.

That's pretty amazing for 30K! However, you have to do Corrupt and/or Obeisant acts (pg. 30) equal to the number you managed to get per 99 days or it's lost. Not so hard, even without turning Evil. Don't stay too long, though, because any extra time will give no more benefit, but will require more acts!

That actually makes it sound like it lasts indefinitely, as long as you commit enough indecent acts every 99 days...
Well, sort of. Corrupt acts are evil, Obeisant acts are Lawful. Enough repetition over time should alter your alignment. Should you become LE those acts are worthless to you. Instead you have to tempt someone else into Corrupt acts and such. But there is a nice little loop hole I'll explain in a minute.

On the note of Corruption. A cold-blooded kill is worth 7 points and its entry is nice enough to point out no matter how many orphanage's you save having a score of 9 or higher flat out means you're going to hell Batoor or w/e. And anything above 3 points requires Atonement on top seeking forgiveness. So on one hand it's really really really easy to keep those Corrupt acts up, pretty much just fireball a farmer's house while everyone is still inside. On the other hand, the Corrupt scale is the closest thing to mentioning how fast you could become evil. Stab a women and her child? You're going to hell. Take the time to slice some limbs off someone before killing them? You're going to hell. Cast nine [Evil] spells in your life? You're going to hell. Eternal Damnation can be done in as little as 6 seconds, pretty sure you could join team Evil inside a day's work even if the DMG advises DMs to wait awhile.

The Obeisant acts are a bit harder, swear fealty to someone takes up like four of the entries. You can't even get that kind of service out of a Cohort. Forgot the rest and I'm too lazy to read up on them. All that matters is keeping your Law/Chaos side balanced and be evil as they come. Solely committing either type of act prevents adjusting both your alignment scales, and of course Evil is the easy way to do things.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Daniel678

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2011, 02:41:12 AM »
SorO, unfortunately part of removing Corruption/Obeisance points is giving up all of the benefits that you gain from them.

One loophole is that a character needs to be both lawful and evil before they are cannot gain benefit from committing the acts themselves. Therefore a lawful (good/neutral) character can do lawful acts and gain Obeisance points. Performing a lawful execution on 2 people would be the fastest way. If you have a lot of followers then you could spend a day disciplining 5 of them. Or you could just go into a major city and follow 3 rules that you consider stupid.

If you are lawful evil then spend some time inducing people to act in lawful ways. Inducing 9 people swear fealty to you is probably the fastest. Selling scrolls of Protection from Good would also work. It could take a bit longer (depending on how many you sell and if you give out "free samples") but you would make some gold in the process.
But seriously, no matter what your alignment is there are so many ways to get these points that most players should get 9 just through a week of normal play. You would need to try very hard to avoid Corrupt/Obeisant acts in order to lose this ability. There is no time limit on renewal so... yeah.

One tactic for a non lawful/evil character might be commit a combination of Corrupt/Obeisant acts. As long as neither go above 9 they will be fine. They will need to atone every 99 days to reset the points to 0.

I think that the OP said they were a Frenzied Berserker. Don't they tend to harm innocents? ;)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 03:25:01 AM by Daniel678 »

SorO_Lost

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2011, 03:10:20 AM »
SorO, unfortunately part of removing Corruption/Obeisance points is giving up all of the benefits that you gain from them.
I only touched on removing them to address the scale of Corruption, didn't mean to suggest ditching them but if it reads that way the additional highlight is welcome.

One loophole is that a character needs to be both lawful and evil before they are cannot gain benefit from committing the acts themselves.
Exactly, nice addition with a good example of Lawful.

It is possible to be a Paladin and use this machine and in turn rely entirely on the Obeisance or pain to renew. If using a machine made out of evil, designed to slowly rip your soul apart in the most painful way possible (it even gives you bonuses to saves/regeneration to you endure it longer, what did you think those were gifts?), and pretty much only found in D&D's versions of hell requiring you to take quick vacation to a world built for the eternally damned just to cause pain in exchange for pure power in no way violates your Code of Conduct. Later on your prime method of Obeisance gain will be from the execution of lawfully found guilty criminals whose act warranted the death penalty.

Of course, Team Evil is willing to sell you one of these things to ensure quality of sacrifices and upkeep is simple stuff like setting fire to orphanages or stealing random hobos off the street. Act now and get a bonus four soul credit, only one more and you'll get a free T-shirt!

I think that the OP said they were a Frenzied Berserker. Don't they tend to harm innocents? ;)
Total Corruption on day one only seconds after being freed. I like it!
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

CantripN

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2011, 08:10:53 AM »
Of course, as a FB it's even easier to be Obeisant. "I don't want to follow no stupid rules not to kill anyone within the city! But I will."
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Mixster

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2011, 08:47:54 AM »
Well, sort of. Corrupt acts are evil, Obeisant acts are Lawful. Enough repetition over time should alter your alignment. Should you become LE those acts are worthless to you. Instead you have to tempt someone else into Corrupt acts and such. But there is a nice little loop hole I'll explain in a minute.

Well, the 5 corruption point one is murder, without specifying on who or what.

Guess what adventurers do to random mooks all the time without turning evil? You could do just that.

Another way to keep it up is setting up as a judge or lawyer somewhere, as resolving a dispute through lawful process gives 2 points of obeisance.

---

However, this thing is rather hard to survive 9x2d20 damage could mean as much as 360 HP damage, few builds have that. Using Frenzied Berserker is probably a good idea. So unless you already have regeneration it is pretty hard. As SorO said, you need some way of ignoring losing on a 1 for a few saving throws with those 9x2 saving throws.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 09:45:03 AM by Mixster »
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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Unbeliever

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2011, 01:38:55 PM »
...
It is possible to be a Paladin and use this machine and in turn rely entirely on the Obeisance or pain to renew. If using a machine made out of evil, designed to slowly rip your soul apart in the most painful way possible (it even gives you bonuses to saves/regeneration to you endure it longer, what did you think those were gifts?), and pretty much only found in D&D's versions of hell requiring you to take quick vacation to a world built for the eternally damned just to cause pain in exchange for pure power in no way violates your Code of Conduct. Later on your prime method of Obeisance gain will be from the execution of lawfully found guilty criminals whose act warranted the death penalty.
...
Paladin of Ilmater or equivalent?  Commune w/ your god through the most unimaginable suffering conceived?  And, then wander the world dispensing justice or keeping a vow (think the aged knights at the end of "the Last Crusade")?  I could see it working, though I don't even know if Ilmater is lawful, but you get the idea. 

SorO_Lost

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2011, 03:48:51 PM »
Paladin of Ilmater or equivalent?  Commune w/ your god through the most unimaginable suffering conceived?  And, then wander the world dispensing justice or keeping a vow (think the aged knights at the end of "the Last Crusade")?  I could see it working, though I don't even know if Ilmater is lawful, but you get the idea. 
Oh that would work perfect. Google hit for him says he is LG and the god of suffering. Also, Favor of Ilmater (MoF SPELL) gives temporary immunity to nonlethal damage. I think you're on to something there.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Caelic

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2011, 05:09:39 PM »
Just make sure you don't turn it up to fifty.  Start with one.  You might eventually go as high as ten.

Unbeliever

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2011, 06:09:15 PM »
I was actually thinking of using Favored of the Martyr, which I read as the updated, generic version of Favor of Ilmater (SpC).  It's Paladin 4, 1 min/level, and makes you immune to "attacks that function specifically by causing pain."  It also lets you stay conscious at -1 to -9 hp, so w/ Delay Death could that deal w/ the damage aspect? 

I am pretty sure it would obviate the Will save from the Shriver -- since that means you "cry out in pain."  I am not sure what it would do for the Fort save. 

Of course, it's little surprise that spells come to the rescue here -- they are the most varied resource in D&D.

Now, I just have to think of the character to work around it ...  I was toying w/ a Bone Knight a while back, this might be an interesting twist on the idea. 

SorO_Lost

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2011, 09:00:39 PM »
I am pretty sure it would obviate the Will save from the Shriver -- since that means you "cry out in pain."  I am not sure what it would do for the Fort save.
You know I'm pretty sure Mind Blank or other Emotional hampering effects probably prevent you from crying out in pain normally. But for all intents and purposes, it very much is based on you bearing it's soul tearing effect. Think about it, fail your Fort save and you pass out (aka anesthetic) which means no more benefits, fail your Will and you cry out (aka not bear it in a manly style) and no more benefits. That being said the saves are pretty low anyway.

I do suggest you pick up a Scroll of Masochism though. +X luck to saves for each 10 damage dealt to you, it halves the extra DC increase offset all by it's self. In fact Spellcasters get to cheat with their various save boosting spells (greater resistance, necromantic empowerment, ruin delver's fortune, etc) where as melee type classes will undoubtedly have high Con/Fort but low to nothing Will saves. For them, I suggest a Crystal Mask of Mind Armor, for 10k you can snag a +4 insight bonus to Will saves. Bracers of Empereal Armor +6 run 64k a pop and give a +6 unnamed bonus to saves. In you really are in a pinch you can blow a Feat slot on Steadfast Determination to use your ConMod for Will saves.

And of course, Phaant's Luckstone lets you reroll that 90% chance of getting a 1 away for a mere 1,000 gold. The only so call hard part is that Escape Artist DC 30 check and 1d20 damage probably murdering hirelings faster than they can free you.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Daniel678

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2011, 10:12:22 PM »
All it takes is two hirelings. One with benign transposition and another one willing to die for your cause.

weenog

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2011, 10:14:14 PM »
All it takes is two hirelings. One with benign transposition and another one willing to die for your cause.

If you got a hireling with Benign Transposition why doesn't he also have Summon Monster?
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2011, 10:18:43 PM »
All it takes is two hirelings. One with benign transposition and another one willing to die for your cause.

If you got a hireling with Benign Transposition why doesn't he also have Summon Monster?
Maybe he has a sorcerer hirling? He's stupid AND has limited spells known? :lol
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

weenog

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2011, 10:21:17 PM »
If you hire a sorcerer that doesn't have a flexible spell like Summon Monster IV, who's really the stupid one?
"We managed to make an NPC puke an undead monster."
"That sounds like a victory to me."

SorO_Lost

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2011, 10:42:49 PM »
If you hire a sorcerer that doesn't have a flexible spell like Summon Monster IV, who's really the stupid one?
idk, but they sound like they would both be perfect for Subject B of Benign Transposition...
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Midnight_v

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2011, 12:19:36 AM »
Quote
Corruption/Obeisance


I'm building Wolverine from marvel comics. It really works.
It also really explains somethings that are kinda funny too, like "Why is wolverine on 3 teams" in universe.
  Well he murders lots of people. I'm going to skip the D&D morality discussion though because its one of those things no one wins, but he kills people of WAY less character level than him who he could often just knock out. Though murder hobo's is what D&D's all about.
  However, acts of obeisance!? He follows cyclop's orders. (schism is coming up though) Swears fealty to proffesor X's dream, which wolverine has never commented about believing in the dream himself, but agrees to follow chuck.
He at one point was a samurai-ish dude. Which was interesting till the stabination started.
 Recently, he got posseses(again) and his soul went straight to hell.

Now, I'm not saying 100% on spot but its damn close from a visual perspective.
 :lol Join 3 teams to kill many more people. Fuckin hilarious.
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SorO_Lost

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2011, 02:54:59 AM »
Fuckin hilarious.
+1

This whole thread got turned into win.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

MalcolmSprye

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2011, 12:31:48 AM »
Just make sure you don't turn it up to fifty.  Start with one.  You might eventually go as high as ten.

Now tell me how you feel... and remember... be honest.

Echoes

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2011, 05:27:14 AM »
How long do the Shriver effects last? I'm AFB, and it'd just be good to keep in mind. Is it one of the 1 year long effects?
99 days. Admit able it's a bit hard to catch from Cantrip's post.

That's pretty amazing for 30K! However, you have to do Corrupt and/or Obeisant acts (pg. 30) equal to the number you managed to get per 99 days or it's lost. Not so hard, even without turning Evil. Don't stay too long, though, because any extra time will give no more benefit, but will require more acts!

That actually makes it sound like it lasts indefinitely, as long as you commit enough indecent acts every 99 days...
Well, sort of. Corrupt acts are evil, Obeisant acts are Lawful. Enough repetition over time should alter your alignment. Should you become LE those acts are worthless to you. Instead you have to tempt someone else into Corrupt acts and such. But there is a nice little loop hole I'll explain in a minute.

On the note of Corruption. A cold-blooded kill is worth 7 points and its entry is nice enough to point out no matter how many orphanage's you save having a score of 9 or higher flat out means you're going to hell Batoor or w/e. And anything above 3 points requires Atonement on top seeking forgiveness. So on one hand it's really really really easy to keep those Corrupt acts up, pretty much just fireball a farmer's house while everyone is still inside. On the other hand, the Corrupt scale is the closest thing to mentioning how fast you could become evil. Stab a women and her child? You're going to hell. Take the time to slice some limbs off someone before killing them? You're going to hell. Cast nine [Evil] spells in your life? You're going to hell. Eternal Damnation can be done in as little as 6 seconds, pretty sure you could join team Evil inside a day's work even if the DMG advises DMs to wait awhile.

Bit of a derail, but I really really hate FC II for cramming this crap into D&D. The whole evil = going to Baator thing flies in the face of every element of D&D cosmology.

It's a shame, too, because I really like a lot of the fluff otherwise. It's just the blatant Christian bias that pisses me off.
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Quotes I Found Entertaining:

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As a general rule, murdering people and taking their stuff is pretty much superior to breaking their stuff, murdering them, then not having any stuff to take.

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[spoiler]
Oh I'll make a party. I'll make a party so hard... I'll make a party that makes you feel so awkward downstairs.

You'll see the party and only be able to respond, "Oh yeah baby."
[/spoiler]