Rogue/Master Thrower/Invisible Blade help

[Blackshade10]

I'm making the above character and wanted a little advice on the following:

Attributes(we use a 36 point buy with every attribute getting 8 for free at a max of 18 for an attribute pre-racial changes)

Feats

Recommendation of a fourth class or something to work with my last 5 levels

Magic Item recommendations


And anything else you might think is a good idea. 

[PhaedrusXY]

Books available? Levels you actually expect to play at?

If ToB is allowed, you can't go wrong with at least two levels of Swordsage on characters like this. Also, Darkstalker is a must-have feat for any stealthy character. I won't say more till I know your allowed sources, so as not to waste both of our times.

[Caelic]

If ToB's available, Bloodstorm Blade might also merit serious consideration for the lightning ricochet, which nicely solves the problem of ammunition.

[Blackshade10]

Most Tome of Battle Feats and Prestige Classes are not allowed, but I can always ask.  I could dip into Swordsage though, that's still cool.

He'll start at level 1, and I plan to bring him to level 20(and maybe beyond).


The idea is a tumbler who throws knives around, fun guy overall, friendly. 

Most books are probably open, but obscure stuff would best be avoided.

[snakeman830]

Most Tome of Battle Feats and Prestige Classes are not allowed, but I can always ask.  I could dip into Swordsage though, that's still cool.

He'll start at level 1, and I plan to bring him to level 20(and maybe beyond).


The idea is a tumbler who throws knives around, fun guy overall, friendly. 

Most books are probably open, but obscure stuff would best be avoided.

One build I enjoyed was Swashbuckler 3/Hit-and-run Fighter (Drow of the Underdark) 2/ Invisible Blade 5/Master Thrower 5/Uncanny Trickster 3/whatever 2.  The PrC's can be done in pretty much any order.  Focus on Dex (primarily) and Int, using Uncanny Trickster with Master Thrower to nab a 4th throwing trick.  I went with Palm Throw, Doubletoss, Trip Shot, and Weak Spot.  Grabbing four Manyfang Daggers (Serpent Kingdoms) and improving them with the Teleporting property is more than worth it.  Get two Greater Truedeath and Demolition crystals, making sure that each hand throws one of each.  Since the two daggers use a single attack roll, both will apply to the attacks.

Net result: each round as a standard action, you throw four daggers.  No Str bonus, but each attack deals 8*Int and 8*Dex in damage against most foes against a touch AC with no Dex bonus (you Feinted as a free action beforehand).  You can still move around too and the daggers reappear in your hands for your next turn.

[Blackshade10]

This is what I got in my head to work with:

Rogue 1/Swashbuckler 3/another level of Rogue/Invisible Blade 5/Master Thrower 5/five more levels of Rogue


The tricks I wanted to go with are Palm Throw, Weak Spot, and Trip Shot. 

I went with Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot for my initial feats.

My attributes look like this:

Strength   10   +0   
Dexterity   20   +5   
Constitution14   +2   
Intelligence   18   +4   
Wisdom   10   +0   
Charisma   14   +2   


Those daggers you mentioned look absolutely AMAZING, just so very expensive.  I mean, I totally plan on getting them, but they are a ways off.

I'm debating getting the gauntlet of Many Knives since it sounds convenient.

[Mixster]

That is decent, grab feat rogue, and add daring outlaw.

1 Level of hit and run sneak-attack fighter Grants you Dex to Damage and +1d6 Sneak attack, quite a decent one level dip IMO.

All in all, that is a decent, simple knife throwing build.

[Blackshade10]

The place I play at doesn't look favorably on one-level dips, so they've kind of enforced that by limiting you to 4 classes until epic level.  In addition, I'm required to take all levels in a prestige class(which really is not a problem here, as I plan too.)


Also, I do realize I mixed up my levels a bit.  It's Rogue 1/Swashbucker 3/Rogue 2/Invisible Blade 5/Master Thrower 5/Rogue 4

3rd level feat is gonna be Weapon Focus(Dagger) and 6th is probably gonna be Far Shot(for Invisible Blade).  The place I play is debating changing the pre-reqs for Invisible Blade, so I might not have to take that and will take Daring Outlaw instead. 

Int to damage is just so very nice.  And eventually, Int to AC as well.

[ImperatorK]

No Str bonus, but each attack deals 8*Int and 8*Dex in damage against most foes against a touch AC with no Dex bonus (you Feinted as a free action beforehand).

Isn't flat-footedness from feint aplicable only to 1st attack in the round?

Ah, shucks. If not for that silly limit on dips I would suggest 1 level of Monk with Kung Fu Genius or 2 Swordsage if the DM would allow to use Kung Fu Genius on it.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Can someone please explain to me the appeal of Invisible Blade?  Feinting is weaksauce and HARD to do (Glibness doesn't help; enemy adds full BAB to its sense motive check), and with eratta even as a free action is still only once/round.  The AC bonus requires no armor to be worn at all and caps at +5 only after five levels in the subpar class and making yourself slightly more MAD (multiple ability dependent) than normal by bumping your int up to 20.  All offensive abilities gained only work with daggers, which is also a bummer when you need bludgeoning, or... when you want to use flasks.

I made an Invisible Blade several years ago because the fluff sounded cool.  After a few levels of it, I got sick of the gratuitous amounts of suck, went into Master Thrower DESPITE intending to be primarily melee, picked up genuinely good class features like free trip on every hit, and actually felt competent all of a sudden.

And yet, CO still seems to like this guy.  What am I missing that an Invisible Blade brings to the table that say...a Ring of Blink (well affordable by the time you hit IB 5) can't do for you, better?

[PhaedrusXY]

It was a good PrC in 3.0, and people still haven't caught on that it actually sucks now.

[Blackshade10]

If ya'll think Invisible Blade is no good, then what do you propose I switch it out with?

[PhaedrusXY]

If ya'll think Invisible Blade is no good, then what do you propose I switch it out with?

You definitely want some swordsage levels (at least 2). Then you might just go rogue3 /swashbuckler X with the Daring Outlaw feat, which lets you get SA from your Swashbuckler levels. Master Thrower is still good, also.

I think someone suggested the Hit and Run fighter variant. The Targetteer variant from Dragon magazine is also good. Either will let you add Dex to damage with thrown weapons.

If you can use somewhat odd races, you might consider the Marrulurk from Sandstorm, also. They're pretty much perfect for this kind of character...

[snakeman830]

Oh, Invisible Blade sucks terribly, it can just synergize okay with Master Thrower (not surprising, since they were originally the same PrC), which is a decent PrC.

Actually, Invisible Blade just synergizes well with those abilities requiring no Dex bonus, like Hit-and-run.

[Shadowhunter]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9073.0

There you go.

[Shiki]

From that thread, SURPRISING RIPOSTE (DotU p.52(?)), if you ever plan on taking Invisible Blade and/or Feint in combat.