Author Topic: D&D Crafting Materials - What can be conjured without expenditure of XP??  (Read 6770 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Gavinfoxx

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 822
  • *Forkbark* Wauwau!
    • Email
Hi there all, I am trying to figure out, in general, what materials (as in material science or building things or armor or weapons or engineering things or whatever) can be created or conjured in D&D without using True Creation or Wish.  Djinn Major Creation is fine, as is Wall of Iron, Wall of Stone, Stone Metamorphosis, Fabricate, Stone to Sand, Sand to Glass, use of high craft skills for composite materials, etc.  Basically, I want to figure out what can be made with only INITIAL investment (in repeating traps, wondrous items that cast spells, unseen crafters or fabricate devices, or in djinn simulacrums [not noble djinn!]), without a per-casting cost of any sort.

I'm trying to figure out --especially with the exotic materials in D&D world, spread out over all the books-- what I could PLAUSIBLY bring to my DM as 'not scarce at all'.  I suppose things with an iron base, maybe using plant based materials and obscure stones via stone metamorphis to maybe make the weird obscure D&D steels?? I don't know, I'm not adverse to MINOR reflavoring for things like, uhhh, Greensteel (was that ever updated to 3.5e?) or Truesteel.  But I need some ideas... anyone have any??

Also, I would LOVE to get some advice for how crystal based stuff can be conjured, what spells or powers that might use.  Thanks!

Hmmm, do you suppose I could encourage the DM to let me research other 'base' material walls based off of wall of iron? Wall of Tin, Copper, Lead, Bismuth, Nickel, Zinc? I dunno, I'm stretching here...

Can I Use wall of Something to make 'valuable' things like Copper, the way Polymorph Any Object says you can't? Or are valuable things not generally allowed with that sort of magic?? We all know Wall of Salt breaking that... And if you go by weight, wall of Iron IS pretty valuable...
« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 02:20:47 PM by Gavinfoxx »
BG's other resident furry!

Solo

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2684
  • Solo the Sorcelator, at your service
Iron - Wall of Iron
Stone - Wall of Stone
Poisons - Minor Creation
Drug plants - Minor Creation

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Gavinfoxx

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 822
  • *Forkbark* Wauwau!
    • Email
Uhhh, you seem to have misread my post, Solo...
BG's other resident furry!

JaronK

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4039
Because of the Djinn thing, all wood products including Bronzewood, Wildwood, Soarwood, and Darkwood would be produceable easily.   Likewise spices like Saffron, and all poisons.  But consider that doing so requires a high enough level Wizard/Binder/Sorcerer/Whatever to do this... how many of them want to bother chain producing these things?  They might create just enough to buy whatever they wanted, then teleport off to another plane to go on adventures.  

JaronK

Gavinfoxx

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 822
  • *Forkbark* Wauwau!
    • Email
The reason I ask is because I want to run a single artificer who uses as many possible ideas along these lines to change the world.  Also to make better guns.... mmm...
BG's other resident furry!

Maat_Mons

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1041
  • What is a smile but a grimace of happiness?
I don't know if this is quite what you're looking for, but sentira (Secrets of Sarlona) has all the properties of mithral (including making armor one category lighter) but can be created with the craft skill, some power points, and powdered crystal. 

Caelic

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 979
The reason I ask is because I want to run a single artificer who uses as many possible ideas along these lines to change the world.  Also to make better guns.... mmm...


It's not a material, but how about using a Decanter of Endless Water for unlimited hydraulic power?  With the right engineering rolls, that would allow you to fabricate a lot of what you need.  Raw materials are all well and good, but unlimited capability to work them is also useful.

Gavinfoxx

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 822
  • *Forkbark* Wauwau!
    • Email
I have the unlimited capacity to work things covered, don't worry. I just need the raw materials. Thanks!
BG's other resident furry!

Foxwander

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 48
    • Email
Hmmm, do you suppose I could encourage the DM to let me research other 'base' material walls based off of wall of iron? Wall of Tin, Copper, Lead, Bismuth, Nickel, Zinc? I dunno, I'm stretching here...

This isn't as crazy as you might think. There is precedent for such "construction" spells- unfortunately it's from Basic D&D. The Rules Cyclopedia has a series of wizard spells specifically for creating raw materials. They're all named Xform, with X being what they make- cloth (level 4), wood (level 5), stone (level 6), iron (level 7), and steel (level 8- this just creates "weapon quality" iron). Each spell...
 - creates a certain amount of material (30' x 30' sheet of cloth, 1000'^3 of wood/stone, or 500'^2 of iron/steel.
 - allows you to shape that material (as one seamless object) as you create it OR within 2 hours of initial casting with another casting.
 - allows you to create material with an "unfinished edge" so you can seamlessly add material with another casting.
 - the spells create only basic materials of a given type (but it would be easy to imagine a researched variation that created material of a given material component).

Anyway, since there were spells to do this before it should be a lot easier to convince a DM to allow the spell research. Heck, perhaps they could be rediscovered in an ancient tome from a bygone age!  :p  
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 07:03:33 AM by Foxwander »
Standing in uffish thought.

Caelic

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 979
Pity they errataed the Siberys Mark of Making.  And by "pity," of course, I mean "The planet's economy doesn't instantly collapse under the weight of building-sized sapphires, diamonds, and hunks of mithril."

kremti

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
    • Email
You can get lots and lots of ice from some Frostburn spells.  Maybe someone can do some creative things with those.

-K

Cagemarrow

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 470
A magic item of Polymorph Any Object to turn dirt into any valuable mineral with a permanent duration? Repeating trap of it could be very handy but you'd have to be careful what you place in the target location, make sure its setup to ignore you as a target, just to be safe.

JaronK

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4039
Don't forget Lyres of Building.  A single Warforged Bard can build a city.

Also, you can get endless Black Sand via the spell, so there's that.

JaronK

Gavinfoxx

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 822
  • *Forkbark* Wauwau!
    • Email
So looking at Polymorph Any Object, that doesn't let you make Copper (cause that stuff is currency...)

So of the permanent walls, if Wall of Salt is Level 4, Wall of Stone is Level 5 or SOMETIMES Level 3 (from a class where spells only go to level 3), Wall of Iron is Level 5, than where would some other walls of other substances be placed as researched custom spells?
BG's other resident furry!

Felix Underwood

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 193
I would recommend making a distinction between Instantaneous and Permanent duration.  The Djinni and PaO stuff is suseptable to Dispel and antimagic.  Sure, permanent stuff could linger for generations in a low-magic area, but the means to get it would probably be lacking in low-magic areas as well.

Plant based stuff:  Plant Growth spell is Instantaneous.  The Enrichment use is fine for "fire and forget" if you just want to help a community and move on, but if you are looking for long-term mass production, stick to the Overgrowth on a small area.  Mass produce resin, milk of the poppy, hemp, lumber, bamboo, whathaveyou.

Silk production:  Improved Familiar from Complete Scoundrel, 4th level Arcane, Monstrous Spider.  Vermin Keeper PrC can also do this at ECL 8.

Troll Byproducts:  (or any creature with regeneration), combine with a ring of sustenance and some way to immobilize/paralyze, and then harvest away for leather, stomach acid for alchemy reagents, meat for dressmaking, blood for bloodmeal, bone for bonemeal, scrimshaw, scroll tubes, etc.. (check out cattle byproducts online for ideas).

Add on some "Half-creature" templates for more shenanegans.  Half-dragon for immunity to fire/acid.  Half-celestial for feather/fletching.

On a related note, I imagine Half-celestial sheep make mighty fine wool.


Edit:  With respect to researching custom spells, I would recommend against it for this application.  If I were the DM, and a player wanted to research a custom wall, but I knew the intention was to not use it as a wall, but instead as a means of converting it to wealth, I would disallow it.  You might as well just ask to reasearch a spell called:  Conjure Fifty Gold Pieces  (along with the lesser and greater versions of it).


Also, I would LOVE to get some advice for how crystal based stuff can be conjured, what spells or powers that might use.  Thanks!
  I would also love to hear if anyone knows of any source material for crystal besides this teeny-tiny blurb in the ExpPsiHB:

Crystal, Mundane: Mundane crystal can be used in place of metal in weapons or armor, using a special forging process. The fortified crystal possesses the properties of a similar masterwork steel weapon or armor, except for visual appearance.  Weapons and armor made of mundane crystal cost the same amount to make as their masterwork counterparts. Any item could potentially be made with mundane crystal


...If weapons and armor cost the same to make as their masterwork counterparts, then I would propose that the "special forging process" costs 1/3 the cost of masterwork.

Equipment cost,  encounter treasure, wealth-by-level; these are all a means of maintaining game-balance.  Sure, they can be broken left and right, but a DM can adapt and use infinite ways to re-establish balance.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 12:37:52 PM by Felix Underwood »

Gavinfoxx

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 822
  • *Forkbark* Wauwau!
    • Email
What if I were to say that this particular game is one where the DM EXPECTS me to break wealth by level, as a plot device for changing the world?  And that regardless of how much 'wealth' I can make, one thing I will have to do is actually increase what can be made and is available to get in a particular region? IE, we aren't doing wealth as a reward system, and the DM is trying to run an economy a little bit more realistically (IE, no matter how much money I have, in some parts of the world, some things just are not for sale, at all, unless I can set up the industry that creates them or some way to import them)?

That is why, for example, I want to come up with a plausible way to conjure the relevant ingredients for something with the stats of Baatorian Green Steel, as an example.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 05:40:55 PM by Gavinfoxx »
BG's other resident furry!

JaronK

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4039
It's not permanent, but I imagine a resetting trap of Psionic Minor Creation would have huge world changing effects.  If nothing else, I'd expect lots of armies (especially Necromantic ones) to use this as a poison source for their attacks.

JaronK

Gavinfoxx

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 822
  • *Forkbark* Wauwau!
    • Email
Well I've got stuff with minor creation / major creation figured out... I was just trawling for more ideas of other plausible stuff!
BG's other resident furry!